intellectual snobbery? Watch

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chad_ch
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#81
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#81
(Original post by Master Polhem)
OOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH!!! That's what it is! Darn I wish Shakespeare would have thought about that... stupid old man.
actually, he designed his plays to be understood by the common Jacobean man. its just after 400 years the references are lost on the common modern man.
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Glutamic Acid
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#82
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#82
(Original post by butterfly_girl_5)
to be fair I dont think that was his opinion
I don't get what you mean. About not using, shock horror, "big words"? Or about the fact that everyone wants to read Okay magazine and similar works?
unikq
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#83
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#83
there is nothing wrong with being well spoken. intellegence has nothing to do with that. it is the ability to cope with problems as they arise.
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faber niger
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#84
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#84
I accept your point; it is hard to be proud of academia. But equally, when talking to people who do not inhabit an academic world, it is best to not perform an academic mating dance with terms, as of course they are not going to understand what you are talking about, and thus get bored quite quickly. There is a real skill in translating complex ideas into a more vernacular idiom: and it is a very worthwhile skill to have.

P.S. the word is self-congratulatory, if someone hasn't already mentioned it.
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unikq
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#85
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#85
(Original post by Master Polhem)
Because I was not using sarcasm at all... (LOOK THERE I GO AGAIN! A self pertaining loop, a paradox perhaps?)
how is it that you still have more reps than me?
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psycopath
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#86
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#86
Lol Big Wrds Mk Me Smater
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J_H123698
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#87
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#87
most students are full of it

'i go to uni, i spent more time in education than you, therefore my view means more than yours does'

which of course, is utter ****e
faber niger
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#88
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#88
(Original post by shootbangfire)
I'll surely get neg repped for this, but, "like my friend who's dyslexic." Also interested and concerned about this, not with this.
Maybe she's schizophrenic as well. :rolleyes::p:
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Profesh
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#89
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#89
(Original post by butterfly_girl_5)
its not an issue about how I speak or what I do
its an issue of whether there is a tendency for all but particularly oxbridge academics and specifically me- are in fact guilty of being arrogant/ self congratulatory/ self- satisfied/
Grammatically, the above sentence is a non-sequitur (though I'll leave you to discover why; because you'll no doubt appreciate the exercise). Also, please punctuate more rigorously: your syntax is riddled with ambiguities.

pretencious/ insincere- the extent to which that is the case, or the extent to which 'other' people- ie those who are often vey interested in culture, literature, art, political debate ect are hostile or dismissive of what they perceive to be arrogance/snobbery ect
Ahem.
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Master Polhem
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#90
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#90
(Original post by chad_ch)
actually, he designed his plays to be understood by the common Jacobean man. its just after 400 years the references are lost on the common modern man.
Vocabulary Shakespeare:29,066

Vocabulary Average man (today): ~1500
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Mr Otter
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#91
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#91
(Original post by Master Polhem)
Vocabulary Shakespeare:29,066

Vocabulary Average man (today): ~1500
Are you trying to prove that the average jacobean man had a greater vocabulary than that of the average modern man?

Because if so, I doubt that comparing Shakespeare against the modern man is much of a fair comparison.

[If that's not what you're trying to prove then discount this thread, but I am in agreement with your quoted denizen that many of Shakespeare's references are lost on todays modern man.]

Also, do you have a citation for that second statistic? 1,500 seems awfully low.

Haha, sorry I shouldn't be jumping in here. I haven't read the thread and nor do I intend to.
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Lidka
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#92
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#92
(Original post by Master Polhem)
Vocabulary Shakespeare:29,066

Vocabulary Average man (today): ~1500
Shakespeare wrote for both the average man and the educated one. His audience would have much more mixed than our modern theatre audiences, so his writing often contains the same phrases repeated twice in different registers to ensure everyone was happy. So, you're both right.
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Crystaltears
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#93
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#93
(Original post by butterfly_girl_5)
I notice with a lot of my friends that even though we share a genuine interest in reading books & literature, when I talk about what I would call 'academic' like using words like intertextuality or narrative structure to talk about a book I like they zone out. and people think im a geek for liking reading books about critical theory
Most people won't think you're a geek, they just probably find you really patronising.
Literature is not really my thing, but I find it is really admirable when people are interested in it and I would be quite happy to listen to you talk about books, but if you started throwing words like intertextuality around I'd zone out.
Being a geek and being a snob are totally different things. Being a geek is fine (I think it's kinda cool haha) but I don't have time for snobs.
Talk about your interests, but just don't be patronising about it.
Narrative structure may seem a normal term to you, but it's like me saying to my Mum at the dinner table "Pass the sodium chloride, please"
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nexttime
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#94
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#94
(Original post by Crystaltears)
Most people won't think you're a geek, they just probably find you really patronising.
Literature is not really my thing, but I find it is really admirable when people are interested in it and I would be quite happy to listen to you talk about books, but if you started throwing words like intertextuality around I'd zone out.
Being a geek and being a snob are totally different things. Being a geek is fine (I think it's kinda cool haha) but I don't have time for snobs.
Talk about your interests, but just don't be patronising about it.
Narrative structure may seem a normal term to you, but it's like me saying to my Mum at the dinner table "Pass the sodium chloride, please"
yup :cool:

i think you could use intertextuality in the right context i.e. if you were having a discussion about, say, how the author has made sometihng into a good read. you'd have to tell me what it means :p: , but if i was up for that discussion this would not put me off, which is probably true of most people willing to talk about this. the trouble is, where do you find these people :confused: .
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madima
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(Original post by J_H123698)
most students are full of it

'i go to uni, i spent more time in education than you, therefore my view means more than yours does'

which of course, is utter ****e
actually there is some truth to that. however, i don't think less educated people have the mental capabilities and knowledge to notice it.
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Schmokie Dragon
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#96
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#96
(Original post by butterfly_girl_5)
*original post*
You don't sound like an intellectual snob to me. You are aware that intellectual snobbery is a trap some people fall into and are keen to avoid falling into it yourself. As long as you read for pleasure, use language appropriately and take care to talior your conversations to your audience to a certain extent, I shouldn't think you have too much to worry about.

I am often called an intellectual snob or pretentious because I'm capable of using 'big words' and because I enjoy academic pursuits. . . For some people, being faced with terminology they do not understand or someone who is interested in something 'brainy' induces a strange misxture of jealousy and resentment. They don't understand what you are talking about and they can't see why you are interested in 'geeky' stuff, thus they assume that you are only doing it to show off your intelligence and to spite them. It is frankly childish, but even trying to explain to someone that they are being irrational causes them to screech, "see, I told you! You farking snob". You can't win
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Master Polhem
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#97
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#97
(Original post by Mr Otter)
Are you trying to prove that the average jacobean man had a greater vocabulary than that of the average modern man?

Because if so, I doubt that comparing Shakespeare against the modern man is much of a fair comparison.

[If that's not what you're trying to prove then discount this thread, but I am in agreement with your quoted denizen that many of Shakespeare's references are lost on todays modern man.]

Also, do you have a citation for that second statistic? 1,500 seems awfully low.

Haha, sorry I shouldn't be jumping in here. I haven't read the thread and nor do I intend to.
That was not what I was trying to prove no.

Have been looking for the source which I read in an article, will look further.
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Master Polhem
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#98
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#98
(Original post by Lidka)
Shakespeare wrote for both the average man and the educated one. His audience would have much more mixed than our modern theatre audiences, so his writing often contains the same phrases repeated twice in different registers to ensure everyone was happy. So, you're both right.
Ok **** Shakespeare for a moment you are all getting too hung up on him and disregarding the point I was trying to make. I could have chosen any other author of learned man/woman take Roy Jenkins - but I chose Shakespeare for arguments sake. Hence **** Shakespeare he is irrelevant.

What my point was in reference to was this " if you were truly clever you'd be able to get your points across without using long words and complex syntax." told by Ches_ch or whatever his ****ing nickname is. It is such a remarkably stupid statement that I had to patronise it into submission because it is plain wrong.
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madima
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#99
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#99
(Original post by Master Polhem)
if you were truly clever you'd be able to get your points across without using long words and complex syntax
agreed.
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butterfly_girl_5
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#100
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#100
(Original post by llys)
Because it's rude? :p: It may also not be true; they may just not be comfortable discussing literature on such a level yet.

BTW I was already confused by that in your first post - what do you consider "academia"?
well Im just using the word for convenience (hence all the quotation marks) the best way I can put it perhaps- is the difference between reaing a book and thinking about what you thought and felt, and consciously probing yourself about how you read it, the relation of your reading of it to the text itself, how the text worked on you in a literary way, as a piece of literature, and how you think your response to it worked (I think people call this reader-response- i found that critical response interesting because its a name for something ive been thinking about anyway)
or history- instead of just thinking- I like learning about the French Revolution- thinking about what history is, what you mean by the word, being conscious of the problematic nature of truth and thus the problem of actually perceiving as a 21st century english 18yr. old student taught by a select number of teachers- how you perceive what happened and what it meant.

I suppose what Im talking about comes down to consciouness, perception, refined understanding of the truth of things- hence why I was attracted to cambridge- they gave me the impression (I can only go on the experience of the app. process) that they are conscious of and concerned about what is learning, how it should be done, what teaching should be, what is language as an object of study.

so when I read Shelleys Hymn to Intellectual Beauty, he repeats the word 'like'- and just reading it would be 'I like the way shelley uses the word like'- and you understand it but cant say why, and identifying why you look it as- ah- its the way the word suggests its similar, but you cant define it, and the name for repetition at the beginning of a line like that is anaphora. and as soon as Im conscious of this thing anaphora, I notice it in other poetry- and it all begins to make sense

does that help?
I know clarity isnt my strong point
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