David Milliband's Education (Vis-à-vis Oxford) Watch

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Profesh
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(Original post by timwaters2007)
Boris Johnson?
A King's Scholar to Eton who graduated joint-top-of-his-class and achieved a 2:1 in Classics at Oxford whilst acting as President of the Union and pursuing a nascent political career. What of him?
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faber niger
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(Original post by Profesh)
A King's Scholar to Eton who graduated joint-top-of-his-class and achieved a 2:1 in Classics at Oxford whilst acting as President of the Union and pursuing a nascent political career. What of him?
Oh, Profesh. :p:
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username138106
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(Original post by Profesh)
A King's Scholar to Eton who graduated joint-top-of-his-class and achieved a 2:1 in Classics at Oxford whilst acting as President of the Union and pursuing a nascent political career.
That's certainly the longest euphemism I've ever read.
anonymous1432
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(Original post by Profesh)
A King's Scholar to Eton who graduated joint-top-of-his-class and achieved a 2:1 in Classics at Oxford whilst acting as President of the Union and pursuing a nascent political career. What of him?
Oh, god. Just goes to highlight that whatever background a person is from, education can't always provide general common sense or intelligence.

This is fun.
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faber niger
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(Original post by 2 + 2 = 5)
That's certainly the longest euphemism I've ever read.
Haha. I'd say it was more of a dysphemism, but I don't want to get all Profeshian — you know you've made it when you have your own adjective! — on you.
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ukstudent2011
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(Original post by made_of_fail)
his dad was a pretty famous academic, so he was not educationally disadvantaged. And, anyway, "a few letters on pieces of paper" do tell you more about someone's academic potential than chatting to them for half an hour. Maybe in this case their judgment was vindicated but, generally, making special allowances for people who seem intelligent is not the best admissions policy.
I'm not sure how having a famous academic as a dad is supposed to make up for going to a **** school. Sure there may have been an ethos of academic attainment in his household, but that doesn't mean he was therefore advantaged in his education.

And what makes you think that making allowenced for people that "seem intelligent" is wrong? If you were an admissions tutor you'd probably reject the countries next prime minister and end up with a college of people with great certificates but "seem" hopelessly unoriginal and boring.

(Original post by fake plastic love)
Woo fellow Camden person.
I think it's improving since they got the new building but it still has an awful reputation. I never would've imagined them producing a cabinet member! Shows that anything can happen really...
Yep. What school did you go to out of interest?
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anonymous1432
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(Original post by Profesh)
A King's Scholar to Eton who graduated joint-top-of-his-class and achieved a 2:1 in Classics at Oxford whilst acting as President of the Union and pursuing a nascent political career. What of him?
I believe a post I just wrote got deleted somehow. It basically said education does not buy intelligence, or along those lines.

Ignore.

Damn this browser is rather unsatisfactory.
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T. Hereford
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(Original post by RJ555)
It was in the paper, he got in on some scheme for easier access to those from a lower class background. However, from the sounds of it, he was from a quite afluent family, so I think he cheated his was in?

Jesus, talk about distorting the truth. :mad:

At the time Miliband was applying to uni, Oxford was pursuing a scheme to admit chidlren from inner-city/ rough schools. As someone mentioned above Miliband went to Haverstock School in north London which is typical, rough, low-acheving inner-city comp. So despite his relativly low grades, he was offered a place to do PPE at Corpus Christi College.

It always makes me chuckle that Miliband went to an inner-city comp and Cameron went to Eton. They both did PPE at Oxford and both managed to gain a First. Hence, I have a lot of respect for Miliband because he came from a modest background yet managed to gain the same qualification nad grade as a toff from Eton.
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made_of_fail
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(Original post by LJoll)
I'm not sure how having a famous academic as a dad is supposed to make up for going to a **** school. Sure there may have been an ethos of academic attainment in his household, but that doesn't mean he was therefore advantaged in his education.
what do you think the "ethos of academic attainment" is if not an educational advantage? There is no excuse for poor grades with that sort of parental background.

And what makes you think that making allowenced for people that "seem intelligent" is wrong? If you were an admissions tutor you'd probably reject the countries next prime minister and end up with a college of people with great certificates but "seem" hopelessly unoriginal and boring.
Because it involves placing too much weight on a 30 minute chat, especially in non-scientific subjects where it is much harder to test for aptitude in such a situation. Good grades don't trump everything else, but they should at least be a necessary condition for admission.

(Original post by T. Hereford)
It always makes me chuckle that Miliband went to an inner-city comp and Cameron went to Eton. They both did PPE at Oxford and both managed to gain a First. Hence, I have a lot of respect for Miliband because he came from a modest background yet managed to gain the same qualification nad grade as a toff from Eton.
but, as people have pointed out, it was a hardly a triumph against adversity. Both him and Cameron gamed the system in different ways.
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Profesh
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(Original post by timwaters2007)
Oh, god. Just goes to highlight that whatever background a person is from, education can't always provide general common sense or intelligence.

This is fun.
So, to summarise: David Miliband doesn't deserve his Oxford education because, despite his intelligence, articulacy and having graduated with a First, he failed to excel at school; Boris Johnson doesn't deserve his Oxford education because despite excelling at school he doesn't seem especially intelligent or articulate, and didn't graduate with a First.

Well, you certainly aren't a hard man to please.
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Oddjob39A
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(Original post by hobnob)
Oh do stop talking rubbish, otherwise some poor credulous soul might actually believe you.:rolleyes:
I love the way some people think Oxbridge is run by racist, right wing, snobby, misyognist, elitest school-masters who have been cryogenically frozen from the Victorian era SPECIFICALLY to run admissions.

The people who run Oxbridge recieved a liberal education, lived through/after the 60's and are well aware that the government is watching them like a hawk.

YES more private students get into Oxford but can that simply not be because privately educated students are more intelligent due to the higher level of education they recieved? (mentoring with exams, more homework etc)

The first thing I think of when I hear someone complain about the 'snobbery' element of Oxbridge in regards to admissions is of the metaphorical chip on the allegorical shoulder (and potentially the fact that - they themselves are simply not good enough for Oxbridge)

And before people start calling me an elitest Oxbridge obsessed twerp; I don't even go there. However, I do live in reality on the planet we like to call Earth.
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faber niger
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(Original post by Profesh)
So, to summarise: David Miliband doesn't deserve his Oxford education because, despite his intelligence, articulacy and having graduated with a First, he failed to excel at school; Boris Johnson doesn't deserve his Oxford education because despite excelling at school he doesn't seem especially intelligent or articulate, and didn't graduate with a First.

Well, you certainly aren't a hard man to please.
Well, I actually would put forward the first proposition, even though you worded it such as to make it slightly unpleasant to so do. Of course, most people who have an Oxford education will thereafter, by virtue thereof, be intelligent and articulate. And many more people than can be accepted, due to pure numbers, may very well be able to do brilliantly at Oxford. However, when one does not do awfully well at A-Levels, a supposedly good indicator of aptitude, it does make one question why they were accepted over countless others who did do well in these examinations. Milliband's subsequent success is irrelevant. Though, his acceptance has now been adequately explained, due to the Oxford entrance exam of old, an 'access scheme' -- and even perhaps favouritism due to his father being a respected Professor of Politics at the LSE.
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Profesh
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(Original post by jismith1989)
Well, I actually would put forward the first proposition, even though you worded it such as to make it slightly unpleasant to so do. Of course, most people who have an Oxford education will thereafter, by virtue thereof, be intelligent and articulate. And many more people than can be accepted, due to pure numbers, may very well be able to do brilliantly at Oxford. However, when one does not do awfully well at A-Levels, a supposedly good indicator of aptitude, it does make one question why they were accepted over countless others who did do well in these examinations. Milliband's subsequent success is irrelevant. Though, his acceptance has now been adequately explained, due to the Oxford entrance exam of old, an 'access scheme' -- and even perhaps favouritism due to his father being a respected Professor of Politics at the LSE.
Well, quite; their admittance to Oxford has already been adequately explained. So 'timwaters' ongoing attempts to fudge the issue by indulging in what amounts to little more than arbitrary character-assassination seem churlish and impertinent.

Tutors aren't infallible, no; but nor do they represent a cabal of socially-regressive, bourgeois snobs. And, even if they did, neither of David Miliband's and Boris Johnson's respective successes at Oxford can be deemed conclusive of that by anyone with an ounce of discernment.
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faber niger
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(Original post by Profesh)
Well, quite; their admittance to Oxford has already been adequately explained. So 'timwaters' ongoing attempts to fudge the issue by indulging in what amounts to little more than arbitrary character-assassination seem churlish and impertinent.

Tutors aren't infallible, no; but nor do they represent a cabal of socially-regressive, bourgeois snobs. And, even if they did, neither David Miliband's and Boris Johnson's respective successes at Oxford can be deemed conclusive of that by anyone with an ounce of discernment.
Indeed. I agree. Though it could be argued that a great many people could perform well -- better than at other institutions -- at Oxford, due to its great resources, systems of teaching and academic environment. Of course, there are, however, counter-arguments: e.g. it is supposedly harder to achieve at Oxford.

By the way, Mr. Profesh, what do you do with yourself in terms of study? You seem like an eloquent chap, and your profile is elusive. :p:
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ukstudent2011
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(Original post by made_of_fail)
what do you think the "ethos of academic attainment" is if not an educational advantage? There is no excuse for poor grades with that sort of parental background.
Of course it helps a great deal. But there is also an ethos of academic attainment at any half decent school, as well and good teaching resources and other students that are unlikely to detract from his education. While I admitted that having an academic as a parent might be helpful, it doesn't make up for going to a crap school.

Because it involves placing too much weight on a 30 minute chat, especially in non-scientific subjects where it is much harder to test for aptitude in such a situation. Good grades don't trump everything else, but they should at least be a necessary condition for admission.
It may be hard to test aptitude in a couple of 30 minute chats, but I'd much rather trust my judgment in that than how well something they've written corresponds to a rigid mark scheme.

but, as people have pointed out, it was a hardly a triumph against adversity. Both him and Cameron gamed the system in different ways.
That is absolutely absurd. Why don't you send your children to Haverstock and see how well they "game the system".
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ally.pants
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(Original post by Oddjob39A)
YES more private students get into Oxford but can that simply not be because privately educated students are more intelligent due to the higher level of education they recieved? (mentoring with exams, more homework etc)
That doesn't make them more intelligent... just more spoon-feed and groomed.
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anonymous1432
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(Original post by Profesh)
Well, quite; their admittance to Oxford has already been adequately explained. So 'timwaters' ongoing attempts to fudge the issue by indulging in what amounts to little more than arbitrary character-assassination seem churlish and impertinent.

Tutors aren't infallible, no; but nor do they represent a cabal of socially-regressive, bourgeois snobs. And, even if they did, neither of David Miliband's and Boris Johnson's respective successes at Oxford can be deemed conclusive of that by anyone with an ounce of discernment.
When have I assassinated anybodys character? I only used Boris Johnson as an example of easy admittance because if anybody read the vast amounts of goofs he has committed, you might come to think how the bloody hell did he graduate primary, let alone university. However, you proved me wrong with your wiki know-how, and I accept I was wrong.

Also, I have never stated that oxbridge is exclusively elitist, just that elitism still exists in some areas.
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tucker672
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I KNEW THIS WOULD COME UP SOMETIME.

No! everyone who says don't trust wikipedia david miliband said both on question time and a radio interview these were his grades, so there is know disputing the grades.

The obvious reason is AAA used to be a lot harder 20 years ago?
EE offer?
He didn't go to the "best" schools?

------------------------------------------

I don't know why he got in with BBBD, but there is know disputing these grades.

Grant
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prospectivEEconomist
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My aunt got into Imperial for Computer science with BBC, so BBB sounds about right.
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jbruner17
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#100
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A-Levels used to be ignored for Oxford's own examinations until fairly recently.
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