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    (Original post by donmcl777)
    HMMMMMMMMMM sounds like a familiar strategy dont you think??? now were have i seen that played before LOL
    All made possible by Russia's idiocy.
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    (Original post by donmcl777)
    (HAHA- Dim good one) Russia was well within its rights, you say Georgia is not in any breach of international law however the provinces in question up untill a few years ago were independant
    No they were not.
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    (Original post by donmcl777)
    HAHA RUSSIA have been inflaming the situation. For the last 5 years American arms have been flowing into Georgia. for example: the Humvees that were captured and jokingly paraded on TV by Russian troops. and russia did not begin inflaming the situation untill provoked by Georgian UAV's probing its territory. whereby instead of whining to the UN they just blew out of the sky with a Fighter Jet.
    If you're trying to get me to pick sides here, you aren't going to succeed. I support neither the US or Russia in this one.

    And yes, American arms were supplied to Georgia. Yes, Georgia paid for them. Whilst you could say that this is unethical on the US's part, others would say it was just pure trade. However, I would say that Dubbya's condemnation of Russia only was a poor move.

    Georgia did not act responsibly in this whole thing, admittedly. However, Russia did not have the right, according to international law, to act as they did.
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    (Original post by SomeNextPirate)
    Regardless, you have not addressed anything that I said, in fact you ignored pretty much everything. Well done, you are clearly a great debater :rolleyes: .
    No, I know. But there wasn't really much of a substantial point to argue against. I just happen to see things in a different light - namely that countries, nations, and the like are social constructions that human beings create through their interactions with each other. 'The Land', as you put it, is another of these. Human being shape the land according to their will; they draw lines on maps to define themselves in certain ways. Those lines are not always agreed upon.

    There is also an entire debate regarding the nature of sovereignty which could be brought to bear on this. The West routinely ignores the question of sovereignty when providing peacekeeping or humanitarian assistance. This is one of the reasons that African nations and those in South America or Asia dislike the notion of peacekeeping since it involves the presence of external troops on sovereign soil.

    I appreciate you taking the side that you do but there is a need for a bit of intellectual rigour in this thread which is rapidly descending into the usual farce.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    No they were not.
    Indeed. I've read and heard some outrageously stupid points of view and arguments in my time - not least on this very forum - but my god Russias new war of conquest has truly sent every madman running and screaming out of the closet.
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    i barely understand, what's the difference between the USA/UK invading Iraq and Russia invading Georgia? oh yeah, russia actually left when people didn't like what they were doing

    i respect russia for standing up to the USA
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    (Original post by donmcl777)
    HAHA RUSSIA have been inflaming the situation. For the last 5 years American arms have been flowing into Georgia. for example: the Humvees that were captured and jokingly paraded on TV by Russian troops.
    Providing a legitimate state with arms is not 'inflaming' anything.

    and russia did not begin inflaming the situation untill provoked by Georgian UAV's probing its territory. whereby instead of whining to the UN they just blew out of the sky with a Fighter Jet.
    You are not entitled to invade someone because they flew a plane into your airspace.
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    (Original post by IeuanF)
    And yes, American arms were supplied to Georgia. Yes, Georgia paid for them. Whilst you could say that this is unethical on the US's part, others would say it was just pure trade. However, I would say that Dubbya's condemnation of Russia only was a poor move.
    Unethical on the US's part in that...?
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    (Original post by oriel historian)
    No, I know. But there wasn't really much of a substantial point to argue against. I just happen to see things in a different light - namely that countries, nations, and the like are social constructions that human beings create through their interactions with each other. 'The Land', as you put it, is another of these. Human being shape the land according to their will; they draw lines on maps to define themselves in certain ways. Those lines are not always agreed upon.
    And? That has nothing to do with the Governments responsibility and authority over such land.

    We, as Britons can't just go over to Calais and decided ACTUALLY this is now part of the UK now.

    Its a ridiculous thought and the point has no bearing on the situation.

    (Original post by oriel historian)
    There is also an entire debate regarding the nature of sovereignty which could be brought to bear on this. The West routinely ignores the question of sovereignty when providing peacekeeping or humanitarian assistance. This is one of the reasons that African nations and those in South America or Asia dislike the notion of peacekeeping since it involves the presence of external troops on sovereign soil.
    ? We are talking about Russia's transgressions not the West's, lets try to keep on topic and focused or things will get far too complicated (especially with so many 'west haters' who will swiftly jump on the bandwagon and bash anything and everything to do with nations in Europe and Northern America)

    (Original post by oriel historian)
    I appreciate you taking the side that you do but there is a need for a bit of intellectual rigour in this thread which is rapidly descending into the usual farce.
    It really isn't about taking sides in this case, I was just pointing out that you cannot compare the UK defending its territory in Northern Ireland to Russia invading another country (Georgia).

    But anyway, I agree this thread is going down the U bend!
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    America is pig disgusting. Watch RT, they're always like 'wtf' at US media because it's all lies.
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    (Original post by SomeNextPirate)
    All made possible by Russia's idiocy.

    ???????? i think that one went right over your head there man.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Would you see a problem if the Republic of Ireland invaded Londonderry tomorrow?
    if there was fighting going on in londonderry - and the people of londonderry didnt want to be a part of northen ireland, yet northen ireland was doing nothing about the fighting, i would be happy for the republic of ireland to go in and do help the people of londenderry have what they want - independence
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    (Original post by an Siarach)
    Unethical on the US's part in that...?
    Supplying a country whose government has a democratic mandate to "win back lost territories" with arms.

    Personally, I'd disagree that that's a decent argument, but I was just anticipating what other people's points might be.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    No they were not.


    O i like this game hold on-----Yes they were.
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    (Original post by donmcl777)
    ???????? i think that one went right over your head there man.
    No, you just failed to grasp what I was saying.
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    (Original post by hec)
    i barely understand, what's the difference between the USA/UK invading Iraq and Russia invading Georgia? oh yeah, russia actually left when people didn't like what they were doing
    JESUS ****ING CHRIST. Iraq was a country ruined by a genocidal madman who was responsible for the deaths of millions. Georgia was, and is, a democratic nation under a freely elected leader. Its not too ****ing hard to spot the difference you idiots.
    i respect russia for standing up to the USA
    And im reaching the point where id happily see a new Gulag inflicted upon every bloody fool who jumps on the most vicious bandwagons simply because they are vaguely anti American. Perhaps experiencing at first hand the kind of wickedness the totalitarian states they support might see them grow a little sense/decency.
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    I was soo happy the day I crossed the Russian border to leave into Mongolia. I'll never go back. Ever.

    mk
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    (Original post by Marsha2112)
    No, it's because he wants his country to do well rather than letting the West walk all over it. And that's why people like you don't like it, because he made the country stronger, like every country has a right to be.
    If I wanted to make my country stronger I don't think I'd do it by rushing headlong towards international pariah status.

    Putin is an ex Colonel in the KGB and his behavior is a reflection of that; it's what we should expect. He's an enemy of freedom and democracy, a political oppressor, and a political dinosaur. But I wouldn't expect you to understand much - your stupidity is made clear by you flying the flag of one of the most oppressive and brutal regimes the world has ever known as if it were a badge of honor.
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    (Original post by WOLLSMOTH)
    America is pig disgusting. Watch RT, they're always like 'wtf' at US media because it's all lies.
    RT is awful. So heavily leant on by the Russian government. They're even more biased than the Daily Mail, lol.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    What absolute rubbish.
    You say this only because you hate secession in all its forms. Kosovo was never legally a part of Serbia, maybe you should do your homework on Yugoslvia.
 
 
 
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