Turn on thread page Beta

music gun crime watch

Announcements
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ZJuwelH)
    Seems this thread has amounted to nothing but willy-waving (and the same old culprit is at it again). "Ooh look at me I'm cleverer than you so you can shut up and everyone listen to me!" SHUT YOUR MOUTH! Don't pull out the long words, stick to the point, like the boy Majik. And don't talk like you're above the people you're supposed to be discussing, because firstly you're not, and secondly it only goes and makes people think they will never reach the social level you try and talk from, rendering their aspirations meaningless (in their eyes) and making the situation worse.
    and who is that?

    Vienna, what the hell has the 60s got to do with anything? It has no bearing on today's rap music, and no bearing on gun criminals. "Oh I'm going to shoot someone because in the 60s" - no I don't see it.
    had you been paying attention, you would have noticed that the argument had moved on considerably to a wider concept of social behaviour.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by vienna95)
    what bold judgements? gun crime on the rise? anti-social behaviour on the rise? gang crime on the rise? drug crime on the rise? they are not bold, they are facts and it doesnt matter whether your black white rich or poor to realise this..

    i meant the judgement that rap is a cause of this, its bold, it's general, 2 easy and in my opinion wrong


    (Original post by vienna95)
    thats not the point..
    lol i think it's a key point, if u were to look at each gun related crime individually, hire the top psychologists and crime experts to analyse them in depth, i think we can all agree they would all probably conclude they have nothing to do with rap, they're more likely to be drug related etc. ok this is what i dont understand 'deep breath' , we can agree about this yet u STILL blame rap!!! and y? y? y?
    y do u and politicians concentrate so much on blaming rap? u try and focus our attention on blaming rap, it makes us ignorent to the real causes, and of-course ignorence is bliss!





    (Original post by vienna95)
    dont play the 'your so out of touch, im from the street' card, because it wont wash. my initial comments surrounding black music culture had one sole point and that was, the messages being given across in the music and in the culture as a whole, and its acceptance in society, is one of lawlessness, crime and disrespect. whether you happen to identify with that or not is irrelevant.
    we all no the message (i would say storys) they put across, no1 is contesting that, wot i'm saying is i disagree with the way u say (in ur original post) those messages are the cause of a rise in gun crime, if u are sitting there telling us the causes of it, then 'whether you happen to identify' is very relevant!

    'your so out of touch, im from the street' card ---- im not playin any card, its very cliche but it's true, if not would u like to explain how u would know about the causes of anti-social behaviour, gun crime etc than someone who has grown up around it???


    [/QUOTE]
    you can live your life as you wish, but when it starts having a broad and sustained output to the majority of the country then you have to take criticism on the chin. swathes of youths of all classes and backgrounds are seeing this music and its clarity as a culture. whether they take the route, and i accept you points regarding role models and a strong family background, that cannot legitimise public acceptance of such messages on the sort of scale we are seeing today.[/QUOTE]

    so we shouldn't let peepz listen to this music, and the culture and messages it puts across? we'd have a generation of kids not knowing what the real world is,
    when it was just the black kids listening to rap music in the urban areas and they were killing each other it was ok, but now its getting popular amongst everyone even white kids, hmm? ****! outrage! time to blame! time to act!






    (Original post by vienna95)
    during the early 90s, drugs and then ecstasy were rife. they were the norm, but god forbid that any pop idol or celebrity dare utter anything but criticism for drugs lest their career end in tatters.
    that is very true! it's not ok for a pop idol (whos fans are mostly white young girls and boys) to talk about drugs, there's absolute outrage when it happens, but rap stars (who's fans are mostly black young girls and boys) talk about it in most songs and it's acceptable, again hmmm?


    at the end of the day if rap never existed, i would still be visiting the grave of a friend every year, on the other hand if knifes, guns, drugs and the issues i talked about never existed, i believe he'd still be here today
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by majik)
    i meant the judgement that rap is a cause of this, its bold, it's general, 2 easy and in my opinion wrong
    This seems to be the catalyst to your argument, so it seems appropriate to point out that i never made such a judgement directly blaming rap music for gun crime. If you disagree, perhaps you would like to point that out for me, with quotes,

    lol i think it's a key point, if u were to look at each gun related crime individually, hire the top psychologists and crime experts to analyse them in depth, i think we can all agree they would all probably conclude they have nothing to do with rap, they're more likely to be drug related etc. ok this is what i dont understand 'deep breath' , we can agree about this yet u STILL blame rap!!! and y? y? y?
    its not the point as i said, because im not directly blaming rap for gun crime. i dont agree it has nothing to do with certain elements of social behaviour though.

    y do u and politicians concentrate so much on blaming rap? u try and focus our attention on blaming rap, it makes us ignorent to the real causes, and of-course ignorence is bliss!
    no-one is blaming rap, that is essentially one point i am trying to raise and have done since the outset.


    we all no the message (i would say storys) they put across, no1 is contesting that, wot i'm saying is i disagree with the way u say (in ur original post) those messages are the cause of a rise in gun crime, if u are sitting there telling us the causes of it, then 'whether you happen to identify' is very relevant!
    again, where did i say that? since rap is so mainstream, its impossible not to identify. you may be convinced it remains a unique street culture but you are severely wrong. in that respect your experiences would no doubt weaken your argument.

    'your so out of touch, im from the street' card ---- im not playin any card, its very cliche but it's true, if not would u like to explain how u would know about the causes of anti-social behaviour, gun crime etc than someone who has grown up around it???
    and i havent? thats rather assumptuous.

    so we shouldn't let peepz listen to this music, and the culture and messages it puts across?
    "people", can we not let standards slip, please.
    certain messages should be condemned. there is not an awful that can be done, because we live a free society, but certainly more media attention towards the attitudes that this culture is promoting would surely be beneficial.


    we'd have a generation of kids not knowing what the real world is, when it was just the black kids listening to rap music in the urban areas and they were killing each other it was ok, but now its getting popular amongst everyone even white kids, hmm? ****! outrage! time to blame! time to act!
    i am very disturbed by two points, firstly that you see contemporary rap music as indicative of real street life, when that is simply a quite ridiculous idea. it is precisely the glamour and fantasy of rap culture that lends success to the genre. this may not have been the case when rap music was born, as a real street form of music, but that will simply not hold today. that is what is most disturbing from my point of view. it still promotes itself as something it quite clearly is not anymore. ie, non-commercialised, honest and subjective.
    secondly, you make what i can only see is sarcasm towards some racial accusation. the issue here is the manifestation of rap music from predominantly a local and spontaneous form of music into something that is reaping the enjoyments of globalisation. raising the racial coincidences is shallow and inappropriate.

    that is very true! it's not ok for a pop idol (whos fans are mostly white young girls and boys) to talk about drugs, there's absolute outrage when it happens, but rap stars (who's fans are mostly black young girls and boys) talk about it in most songs and it's acceptable, again hmmm?
    what exactly are you saying here? from that comment, it would appear white music culture is being discriminated against. possibly a valid point, but not how i would look at the problem.

    at the end of the day if rap never existed, i would still be visiting the grave of a friend every year, on the other hand if knifes, guns, drugs and the issues i talked about never existed, i believe he'd still be here today
    so, first you deny any link between rap music and conscious decision making and than attribute it to the influencing the minds of its listeners. which is it to be?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    That's a pretty big post. Maybe I'll set aside a couple of hours this evening and get started on reading it.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Mr White)
    That's a pretty big post. Maybe I'll set aside a couple of hours this evening and get started on reading it.
    not really, barely a few sentences.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Eámanë)
    do you think that the increase in popularity in hip hop msuic or music in general is linked to teh rise in youth gun crime?

    i am doing a reserch paper for media studies an would be greatful if some peopel could give me there views
    I feel that gun crime has nothing to do with music and that people are lookin for other people to blame.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Crunch)
    I feel that gun crime has nothing to do with music and that people are lookin for other people to blame.
    other than?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by vienna95)
    This seems to be the catalyst to your argument, so it seems appropriate to point out that i never made such a judgement directly blaming rap music for gun crime. If you disagree, perhaps you would like to point that out for me, with quotes,
    no-one is blaming rap, that is essentially one point i am trying to raise and have done since the outset.
    the original question was, 'do you think that the increase in popularity in hip hop msuic or music in general is linked to teh rise in youth gun crime?'
    ur reply was 'yes, rap music glamourises a mythical life of guns, drugs and disrespect towards women.'

    that was the catalyst 2 my argument!



    (Original post by vienna95)
    i am very disturbed by two points, firstly that you see contemporary rap music as indicative of real street life, when that is simply a quite ridiculous idea. it is precisely the glamour and fantasy of rap culture that lends success to the genre. this may not have been the case when rap music was born, as a real street form of music, but that will simply not hold today. that is what is most disturbing from my point of view. it still promotes itself as something it quite clearly is not anymore. ie, non-commercialised, honest and subjective.
    it's really not so ridiculous? spend a year in hackney and brixton and u'll see! in saying that i do concede that a lot of todays artists are very commercialised and are just cashing in, but they are still honest about it, a lot of the songs are about making money



    (Original post by vienna95)
    secondly, you make what i can only see is sarcasm towards some racial accusation. the issue here is the manifestation of rap music from predominantly a local and spontaneous form of music into something that is reaping the enjoyments of globalisation. raising the racial coincidences is shallow and inappropriate.
    (Original post by vienna95)
    what exactly are you saying here? from that comment, it would appear white music culture is being discriminated against. possibly a valid point, but not how i would look at the problem.
    coincidence? i dont think so! i suppose it is a racial accusation, i'm finding this really hard to explain, i'm challenging the attitude EVERYONE has (of every race) that when it is affecting the mainstream, everyone takes more notice and is more willing to condemn and take action, but if it's just the urban areas, we can sweep it under the carpet

    i think this relates to your previous post:
    'i would tend to agree, but when you see a troubling rise in gun crime, it is hard not to treat. at the time of the ecstasy hype, anyone who didnt condemn drugs furiously was attacked by the media and the government. this is also the case with footballers. as i said the government is reluctant to do as much in regards to this, because it is, as everyone knows, mainly orientated around the black community.'





    (Original post by vienna95)
    so, first you deny any link between rap music and conscious decision making and than attribute it to the influencing the minds of its listeners. which is it to be?


    i don't understand what ur sayin here



    i accept ur points, even if i dont agree with most, well i think i'm starting to go round in circles so maybe i should retire here, this is a controversial topic which stems into many others, thank u for a very stimulating debate x
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by majik)
    the original question was, 'do you think that the increase in popularity in hip hop msuic or music in general is linked to teh rise in youth gun crime?'
    ur reply was 'yes, rap music glamourises a mythical life of guns, drugs and disrespect towards women.'

    that was the catalyst 2 my argument!
    yes. i stand by that. i didnt say, gun crime is because of rap.
    nothing youve said has disproved or challenged that statement.

    coincidence? i dont think so! i suppose it is a racial accusation, i'm finding this really hard to explain, i'm challenging the attitude EVERYONE has (of every race) that when it is affecting the mainstream, everyone takes more notice and is more willing to condemn and take action, but if it's just the urban areas, we can sweep it under the carpet
    so thats not racial then is it. unless you are now dramatically assuming that you cant be urban and white.

    i don't understand what ur sayin here
    im saying, your being contradictory.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by vienna95)
    dont play the 'your so out of touch, im from the street' card, because it wont wash. my initial comments surrounding black music culture had one sole point and that was, the messages being given across in the music and in the culture as a whole, and its acceptance in society, is one of lawlessness, crime and disrespect. whether you happen to identify with that or not is irrelevant. you can live your life as you wish, but when it starts having a broad and sustained output to the majority of the country then you have to take criticism on the chin. swathes of youths of all classes and backgrounds are seeing this music and its clarity as a culture. whether they take the route, and i accept you points regarding role models and a strong family background, that cannot legitimise public acceptance of such messages on the sort of scale we are seeing today. during the early 90s, drugs and then ecstasy were rife. they were the norm, but god forbid that any pop idol or celebrity dare utter anything but criticism for drugs lest their career end in tatters.
    as Jay Nordlinger stresses in his weekly diary..

    -- You'll be pleased to know that Murder, Inc., the rap-record company, has changed its name — to, simply, "The Inc." The company's founder told a press conference, "People have been focused on the negative energy of the word 'murder.'" You don't say? "Negative energy"? And Russell Simmons, the hip-hop mogul, said the name change was necessary to "get you all off [the company's] a**." "You all" meant fuddy-duddies who might have been focusing on the negative energy of the word "murder."

    Me, I sort of liked the original name — by their names, you should know them. A company that produces a product that routinely celebrates murder, rape, and other crimes should have a forthright name. Truth in advertising, and all that.---
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by vienna95)
    as Jay Nordlinger stresses in his weekly diary..

    -- You'll be pleased to know that Murder, Inc., the rap-record company, has changed its name — to, simply, "The Inc." The company's founder told a press conference, "People have been focused on the negative energy of the word 'murder.'" You don't say? "Negative energy"? And Russell Simmons, the hip-hop mogul, said the name change was necessary to "get you all off [the company's] a**." "You all" meant fuddy-duddies who might have been focusing on the negative energy of the word "murder."

    Me, I sort of liked the original name — by their names, you should know them. A company that produces a product that routinely celebrates murder, rape, and other crimes should have a forthright name. Truth in advertising, and all that.---
    indeed this is good news , the names should of never been allowed to be on teh back of many popular artist liek ashanti, ja rule whom many young people listen to. do u think it sends out a negative message?
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Unregistered)
    It doesn't have an effect on the culture. The music is ABOUT the culture that already exists.
    Hip hop/Rap has crossed the boundaries of utter crapulence. When people have to rhyme BO with YO and say their own name at the beginning of a song (many times), something is seriously wrong. Now, go, buy some classic Metallica and Nirvana and experience real music. Hip hop is just as commercial as other rubbish pop bands, such as Busted, who, must also be destroyed.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    this is true hip hop is crap manufcatured rubbish however is it linked with gun crime?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I think we all forget to be careful how we generalise this music genre hip hop....
    I know there are artists out there that do talk about guns, drugs and sex...
    but i can tell you there are hip hop muscians that do there god damn best to make there messages ones that are positive and will make a difference..
    why say all hip hop is a bad influence, it's not, 50 cent!!! who gives a **** about him, he's not talented, forget him then forget his lyrics!
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    I did my CGSE English speech on this topic (saying that it didn't encourage gun crime), and to quote the great Eminem, "They say music can alter moods, and talk to you, but can it load a gun up for you and **** it too? Well if it can then the next time you assault a dude, tell the judge it was my fault and I'll get sued"
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    I did my GCSE English speech on this topic (saying that it didn't encourage gun crime), and to quote the great Eminem, "They say music can alter moods, and talk to you, but can it load a gun up for you and **** it too? Well if it can then the next time you assault a dude, tell the judge it was my fault and I'll get sued"
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    #so here go my single, dawg, radio needs this
    theysaidyoucanrapaboutanything except for Jesus,
    that means guns, sex, lies, videotape
    but if i talk about god, my record wont get played
    wah!?

    Kanye West - Jesus Walks
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Eámanë)
    do you think that the increase in popularity in hip hop msuic or music in general is linked to teh rise in youth gun crime?

    i am doing a reserch paper for media studies an would be greatful if some peopel could give me there views
    :eek: :mad:

    There is no problem with hip hop or any music which is linked to gun crime. The problem is the enviroments to which these kids have be raised in. There families, but even then, it is just that person's mind that gives a good reason to their choices in live. Its the person's life experiences which leads one to crime...guns. Its that persons mind and conscience to really blame. Someone needs to tell these kids what reall and not.

    There is music on Earth which talks about the good, it tells you to work hard and work honestly. Just as there is music which tells of the bad, to do bad. Its just the person who is listening to the song with that fault of thinking that they should do what it said on that song. Besides are we forgeting, music has been around how long? Crime has been around how long? Was there Hip Hop and Rap 5,000 years ago I think not, but still crime. Was there Rap or Rock N' Roll in the 1700 and 1800's when "shiver me tembers"
    was a main theme? What music said it was okay to just fight and kill for no reaseon. Was the World Wars caused by music? I think not.

    "They say music can altar moves and talk to you, but can it load a gun and **** it too?!?" -
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    i think music is irrelevant. Its all about up-bringing, if you are brought up in a certain culture you will adopt it. for example as a kid, if you hung around on streets in a gang who had certain views and did certain things such as robbing people then you yourself would do these things to fit in and socialise. Younger kids will look up to the older youths in their area and grow up to be just like them in the way they dress and the things they do in order to gain respect. this is a problem far more complex than music, to stop gun crime you would have to phase out a whole culture!
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Ellie4)
    I did my CGSE English speech on this topic (saying that it didn't encourage gun crime), and to quote the great Eminem, "They say music can alter moods, and talk to you, but can it load a gun up for you and **** it too? Well if it can then the next time you assault a dude, tell the judge it was my fault and I'll get sued"
    im not claiming that he is responsible, just that rap music encourages a whole load of unsavoury lifestyle choices, among which, disrespect towards women is the most blatant and offensive.
 
 
 
Poll
Have you ever experienced bullying?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.