English a second language for one in seven school children Watch

EskimoJo
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#81
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#81
As long as they can speak English as well as other kids in their age group, who the hell cares if English is their 8th language??

Multilingual children are lucky little buggers imo.
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Howard
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#82
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#82
(Original post by jismith1989)
I understand that mass imigration may be causing some problems in some areas, however, making sweeping generalisations such as this do nothing to resolve them. Foreigners aren't bad simply because they're foreign, which is what this headline implies.
This discussion has nothing to do with "foreigners being bad simply because they are foreigners" Talk about missing the point.
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Howard
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#83
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#83
(Original post by EskimoJo)
As long as they can speak English as well as other kids in their age group, who the hell cares if English is their 8th language?
Well they can't. That's the whole point.
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faber niger
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#84
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(Original post by Howard)
This discussion has nothing to do with "foreigners being bad simply because they are foreigners" Talk about missing the point.
:tongue: Talk about argument by insult.

Well, the main premise of the headline is that there are many people in Britain for whom a foreign language is their first. We are supposedly to infer that this is a bad thing because it is newsworthy. The conclusion, therefore, seems only to be that having a foreign language as one's first is a bad thing -- regardless of how well one can speak English. So why are foreign languages inherently bad, if not because of xenophobia?

A headline decrying standards of English I could empathise with. This I cannot.
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forsaken_earth
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#85
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#85
OP lets hope you learn something from some of those children
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Sine
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#86
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#86
(Original post by Howard)
Well they can't. That's the whole point.
Erm English being your second language does not mean that your English is bad. Most of them can speak English just as well as their peers. It's only if they were born abroad, that their English won't be as good.
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Howard
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#87
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#87
(Original post by jismith1989)
The conclusion, therefore, seems only to be that having a foreign language as one's first is a bad thing -- regardless of how well one can speak English.
Oh, no it doesn't. The inference here is that these people are not able to speak English very well and that this is resulting in (1) increased classroom costs and (2) the arrested progress of native English speakers.

Nobody could possibly conclude that this article is suggesting that being multi-lingual is per-se a bad thing.
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faber niger
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#88
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(Original post by Howard)
Oh, no it doesn't. The inference here is that these people are not able to speak English very well and that this is resulting in (1) increased classroom costs and (2) the arrested progress of native English speakers.

Nobody could possibly conclude that this article is suggesting that being multi-lingual is per-se a bad thing.
Well, that may be the inference that you may draw -- however, it certainly does not seem to be implied in the headline. From the headline alone (which, after all, should summarise the thrust of the article), I am not told anything about classroom costs or any "arrested progress" of "native" English speakers; I am told about the proportion of children speaking foreign languages over English. That is not to say that there are not some problems due to population increases, however, this huge headline-grabbing statement is not, in my opinion, the best means to discuss them.

Also, please don't say that "nobody could conclude..." after I've just told you that I did conclude thus. It's pretty patronising.
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Howard
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#89
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(Original post by jismith1989)
Well, that may be the inference that you may draw -- however, it certainly does not seem to be implied in the headline. From the headline alone (which, after all, should summarise the thrust of the article), I am not told anything about classroom costs or any "arrested progress" of "native" English speakers; I am told about the proportion of children speaking foreign languages over English. That is not to say that there are not some problems due to population increases, however, this huge headline-grabbing statement is not, in my opinion, the best means to discuss them.

Also, please don't say that "nobody could conclude..." after I've just told you that I did conclude thus. It's pretty patronising.
Well the headline certainly doesn't not infer that being able to speak two languages is bad.
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faber niger
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#90
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(Original post by Howard)
Well the headline certainly doesn't not infer that being able to speak two languages is bad.
That triple negative is too much for my brain after I've just had something to drink, but is coming closer to what I'd agree with.

By the way, I don't mean to be rude here, as it's a very minor point which doesn't detract from what you say, but, for the sake of accuracy, authors never infer something -- an inference is something that is made by the reader; authors imply, readers infer.
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Freudian
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#91
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(Original post by nolongerhearthemusic)
...

Really?
I second this..really?
The daily mail... well it's slightly biased on ze olde British side,it's the sort of thing i would imagine a middle aged blue-collar to read.
Take no offence and if you do,each to their own.
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adamdivine
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#92
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#92
I'm tired of hearing that...

Its OK for immigrants to be nationalistic about their homeland
but its not OK for native Brits to be nationalistic about Britain.

Oh, and America has A LOT of ethnic tension, and even they encourage american nationalism
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joeyXCORE
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#93
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There are plenty of kids for whom english is a second language that are better at english than english kids anyway lol
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Cezmerelda
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#94
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It's been like this around my area for years...loads of the kids who start school can only speak Welsh and not English. And Wales has done ok hasn't it
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Freudian
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#95
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(Original post by joeyXCORE)
There are plenty of kids for whom English is a second language that are better at English than english kids anyway lol
Exactly,i only came here from Sweden around 7 years ago,not a word of English did i know.Gcse's i stumped the ones that were born here and had spoken it for ..oh..all their lives.
A-level Eng lit and I am still better than some ,so it just goes to say that it doesn't matter whether English is your 2nd or 3rd...or 4th...5th...6th....7th language.
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Howard
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#96
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(Original post by jismith1989)
That triple negative is too much for my brain after I've just had something to drink, but is coming closer to what I'd agree with.

By the way, I don't mean to be rude here, as it's a very minor point which doesn't detract from what you say, but, for the sake of accuracy, authors never infer something -- an inference is something that is made by the reader; authors imply, readers infer.
You're right. It is a very minor point. But one that I'll certainly take on board nevertheless.
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EskimoJo
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#97
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(Original post by Howard)
Well they can't. That's the whole point.
Many, if not most of them can. Especially the ones that were born here.
And if we're talking about 'foreign kids who can't speak English as well as other children' not 'children for whom English is a second language' then I'm certain the numbers are much less than 1 in 7; probably more like 1 in 15 at most. And this is coming from a Londoner who is surrounded by kids speaking different languages.

Just to point out - speaking with an accent =/= poor English.
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EskimoJo
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#98
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(Original post by Cezmerelda)
It's been like this around my area for years...loads of the kids who start school can only speak Welsh and not English. And Wales has done ok hasn't it
That's because the kids who speak Welsh and not English live in Wales, not England? :confused:
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Cezmerelda
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#99
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(Original post by EskimoJo)
That's because the kids who speak Welsh and not English live in Wales, not England? :confused:
and your point is?? do you think we don't speak english over here or something?

and it works the other way as well, you get kids who can't speak anything but english speaking fluent welsh by the end of the year.

I hate the way England just forgets about Wales
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adamdivine
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#100
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#100
In a lot of places IN BRITAIN, british people feel out of place. Our grandparents would be shaking their heads... I can see their disappointment... tutut
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