is religion just some form of hope for the weak? Watch

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#81
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#81
if someone believed in a dog woman made out of chocolate who had a million tits, and that this dog woman created the earth and everything on it, you'd think that person is a tard

but what if a billion people believed it

and that my friends is religion
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azn-wonder91
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#82
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(Original post by Phugoid)
So you're admitting to me that without religion, you would be an awful awful human being, and the only reason you put on a face and pretend to be nice is so you can avoid hell and get into heaven.

Truly despicable.

Morality does not come from religion. I have proof for that. And the proof is me. Me and countless other atheists who do not have religion, and are perfectly moral. I am deeply insulted that you think I'm immoral because I'm not religious, which is exactly what you are suggesting.
no i said nothing like that. the only reason i am a good human is because that is the way i have been brought up. that is the way i have learned to be through my parents and my religion. i never said you or all atheist are immoral.
you are trying to put words into my mouth and also you are being highly sensitive. calm down dearest.
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Unfinished Business
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#83
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"Religion became a tool, for the weak to control the strong"

But I don't think it's weak to have hope.
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Phugoid
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#84
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(Original post by azn-wonder91)
no i said nothing like that. the only reason i am a good human is because that is the way i have been brought up. that is the way i have learned to be through my parents and my religion. i never said you or all atheist are immoral.
you are trying to put words into my mouth and also you are being highly sensitive. calm down dearest.
You said you seen religion as a repellent because you didn't want to go to hell. This directly suggests that you NEED a repellent, and that if you didn't have it, then you would do things that are considered to be bad enough to merit hell.

That is what you said, and that is what it quite obviously suggests.

Now, you know that's not true, and I know that's not true. We both know you are, more than likely, a good person in general. Whether you had that repellent or not, you'd be a good person. So why bother with religion?
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Bong-Bong
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#85
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I see it as:

Atheism being a way for people to avoiding looking weak.
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azn-wonder91
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#86
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(Original post by Phugoid)
You said you seen religion as a repellent because you didn't want to go to hell. This directly suggests that you NEED a repellent, and that if you didn't have it, then you would do things that are considered to be bad enough to merit hell.

That is what you said, and that is what it quite obviously suggests.

Now, you know that's not true, and I know that's not true. We both know you are, more than likely, a good person in general. Whether you had that repellent or not, you'd be a good person. So why bother with religion?
i still have my freewill to make my own decisions. if something is acceptable according to my religion but against my moral of course i wont do it.
i bother with religion because it gives me a purpose in life and makes me feel whole.
im not telling you to become religious-it's ur life do what u want
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Phugoid
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#87
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(Original post by Unfinished Business)
"Religion became a tool, for the weak to control the strong"

But I don't think it's weak to have hope.
It is not the hope that is weak, it is the nature and the context of the thing that is being hoped for that is weak. You are hoping that there is an invisible man in the sky who always looks after you, understands your thoughts and feelings, loves you, hears all your prayers, and will forgive everything bad you have ever done and lead you into eternal bliss. Why do you need that? You need it because you're too weak to face a world which is generally quite harsh, where justice is not always given and where you can be lonely, detached and isolated from people who don't understand your thoughts and feelings, and don't care about them. You're too weak (or too arrogant and egotistical) to accept that you are nothing but a tiny collection of molecules in a massive universe that doesn't care. You're an insignificant spot on the cosmic backdrop, and you can't face that you aren't special, you aren't on preferred status with somebody bigger than everything else, you aren't part of a bigger plan and you almost certainly aren't going to survive death (whatever that means...).

That is the source of the weakness. Being hopeful itself is not weak. I hope it's sunny tomorrow, not because I'm too weak to face rain, but because the sun is fun. Hoping for sun doesn't make me weak. But hoping that reality isn't all there is... that's weak.
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Phugoid
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#88
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(Original post by azn-wonder91)
i still have my freewill to make my own decisions. if something is acceptable according to my religion but against my moral of course i wont do it.
i bother with religion because it gives me a purpose in life and makes me feel whole.
im not telling you to become religious-it's ur life do what u want
I'm interested in what purpose religion gives to your life.

As an Atheist, I accept that I have no higher purpose in life. My evolutionary goal is to reproduce, and I will probably do just that. Nobody higher up than me has a plan which I am part of. I make my own plans, and they are what shape my life. They don't really have a purpose, they're just my fun and games, goals and ambitions, but they don't really mean anything.

However, if there WAS somebody higher up than me who had a plan which I was part of, so what? What makes that person's plan any more worth fulfilling than my own plans? After all, if that person is God, then he himself isn't part of somebody elses plan. God is an Atheist, because like me, he doesn't have anybody above him who has a plan. So he makes his own plans. They don't really have a point to them, they're just his fun and games, goals and ambitions. So what is really so special about being part of his plan? They don't mean anything. If God is the first cause, then everything he does is arbitrary, casual, leisurely, and with no serious goal or intent of any significance.

Being part of God's plan is just as insignifant as living by your own plans, only 1 person removed, and slightly more indirect. It doesn't give any more meaning to life at all.
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Phugoid
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#89
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(Original post by Bong-Bong)
I see it as:

Atheism being a way for people to avoiding looking weak.
So Atheists look strong, but are actually weak, and theists look weak, but are actually strong?

Lawl.
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IchiCC
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#90
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(Original post by roots)
No. Try following a religion properly, fully and then come back to us and tell us how those people who follow religion are weak.
Hey, that's a pretty good idea. Let me just fetch my 50,000 sided coin to help me choose which one to follow properly and fully.
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Unfinished Business
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#91
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(Original post by Phugoid)
It is not the hope that is weak, it is the nature and the context of the thing that is being hoped for that is weak. You are hoping that there is an invisible man in the sky who always looks after you, understands your thoughts and feelings, loves you, hears all your prayers, and will forgive everything bad you have ever done and lead you into eternal bliss. Why do you need that? You need it because you're too weak to face a world which is generally quite harsh, where justice is not always given and where you can be lonely, detached and isolated from people who don't understand your thoughts and feelings, and don't care about them. You're too weak (or too arrogant and egotistical) to accept that you are nothing but a tiny collection of molecules in a massive universe that doesn't care. You're an insignificant spot on the cosmic backdrop, and you can't face that you aren't special, you aren't on preferred status with somebody bigger than everything else, you aren't part of a bigger plan and you almost certainly aren't going to survive death (whatever that means...).

That is the source of the weakness. Being hopeful itself is not weak. I hope it's sunny tomorrow, not because I'm too weak to face rain, but because the sun is fun. Hoping for sun doesn't make me weak. But hoping that reality isn't all there is... that's weak.
That's harsh. I hope you'd say the same for alcoholics and drug dependents.

And the people who believe in God aren't hoping - they KNOW.
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Charzhino
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#92
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(Original post by Phugoid)
I'm interested in what purpose religion gives to your life.

As an Atheist, I accept that I have no higher purpose in life. My evolutionary goal is to reproduce, and I will probably do just that. Nobody higher up than me has a plan which I am part of. I make my own plans, and they are what shape my life. They don't really have a purpose, they're just my fun and games, goals and ambitions, but they don't really mean anything.
That is the difference. As an athiest you think you have no purpose in life but to a religious person they do.
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IchiCC
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#93
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(Original post by Charzhino)
That is the difference. As an athiest you think you have no purpose in life but to a religious person they do.
Last time I checked the comfort factor and truth factor of a statement were independent of each other.
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Charzhino
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#94
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(Original post by IchiCC)
Last time I checked the comfort factor and truth factor of a statement were independent of each other.
I don't understand.
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Phugoid
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#95
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(Original post by Unfinished Business)
That's harsh. I hope you'd say the same for alcoholics and drug dependents.

And the people who believe in God aren't hoping - they KNOW.
I do same the same for alcoholics and drug dependents.

And if people KNEW God existed, it wouldn't be called 'belief' or 'faith', it would be called 'fact', and it would be provable.
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Phugoid
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#96
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To whoever repped me - I got one neg rep from a particularly well-endowed Christian (with respect to rep, they were in the gold!). Thanks for your support, though, much appreciated.
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Charzhino
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#97
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(Original post by Phugoid)
I do same the same for alcoholics and drug dependents.

And if people KNEW God existed, it wouldn't be called 'belief' or 'faith', it would be called 'fact', and it would be provable.
Same goes as you know there is no God but can't prove it? Works both ways.
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Phugoid
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#98
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(Original post by Charzhino)
I don't understand.
He's saying that just because something is comforting, that doesn't make it true.

For example, when doctors prescribe placebos to patients, it seems to help, they feel comforted and they actually respond to the placebo as if it had active chemicals. But that doesn't change the fact that, in actual fact, it doesn't have active chemicals. Just because religion is comforting does not mean that its claims are true.
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Hexasol
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#99
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Nope. I heard something along the lines of this on Grey's Anatomy (yeah, but it does make some sense)

Intern: You believe in Santa?!
Head Surgeon: Everyone believes in me to save their lives or someone they love, I can't cope with that pressure on my own. I need someone to believe in too, and that happens to be Santa.

I know it's not religion and it's a television show but it has some wisdom in there.
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IchiCC
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#100
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(Original post by Charzhino)
Same goes as you know there is no God but can't prove it? Works both ways.
There is this little thing called burden of proof. That belongs to you.
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