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The Israel/Palestine Conflict Mk. IV

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Reply 980

Jammy Duel

Original post by tsr1269

Conflicting reports on how many IDF soldiers killed:

Official toll says 18 but these guys have arrived at 23...

They did make a very dodgy assumption:

Israeli media also reports an incident in which a Palestinian shell was fired at a Palestinian building that had been taken over by Israeli soldiers for use as a military post, which killed three.
They assume that those deaths were military, they could have been civilian, or Palestinian prisoners for that matter.

Reply 981

tsr1269

Original post by Jammy Duel

But, as you say, it's probably true. Also, consider that those who are celebrating probably trust what their government is saying on the matter. Suppose your country, whichever it is, is at war and the government announces that the war is over, you would believe them and not wait to hear it confirmed by the other parties before celebrating, right? Ok, they are slightly different circumstances, but it's the best analogy I could think of that might be reflective of the position.

I think it's all but confirmed now. The Israeli's are in a knot. Confirm and they risk lowering the morale of their soldiers, general panic in Israel meaning the public opinion will turn against current Israeli policy. If they deny and it turns out that they have captured a soldier, it looks like a ramshackle operation which the IDF has absolutely no control over.

I think it might be slightly outside their mental capabilities, given they show a lack of understanding of the conflict, politics behind it, history of it, the fairly standard weapons designations which they incorrectly use, their inability to use google effectively, belief that iron dome is unique in the world... the list goes on.

They have brainwashed themselves in their superiority....

Which just returns us to the stalemate of the last few decades.

If it had been Fatah in power in Gaza, I would have agreed with you but it is HAMAS (or as the Bibi terms it, "Khamas") and based on the last couple of wars fought and the ceasefire terms, they are making dogged progress despite Israeli's constant military bombardment of the Gaza strip.

In a way, I understand the Israeli predicament. If they do nothing, then HAMAS gets stronger but if they do something, they pay a heavy price (deaths, condemnation, trade, cost, lives etc etc)...

Reply 982

tsr1269

Original post by Jammy Duel

Unrelated to this specific post, I wonder, purely hypothetically, how easily Israel would be able to get away with some sort of biological weapon attack given the poor conditions in Gaza, make it seem legit.

I believe it would be extremely difficult at this stage in the conflict or indeed any stage of the conflict unless it is portrayed as a HAMAS/Islamic Jihad's attempt to set off a biological bomb in Israel exploding or released prematurely (i.e: false flag attack).

It's not beyond the realms of possibility. They could do it but whether they would get away with it is another matter altogether. Having said that, it doesn't seem as if Israel really cares about international opinion so who knows?

Reply 983

tsr1269

Original post by Jammy Duel

They did make a very dodgy assumption:

They assume that those deaths were military, they could have been civilian, or Palestinian prisoners for that matter.

That one was a little confusing as I hadn't heard any reports about that and it seemed rather strange.

But Al Qassam are now saying that the Israeli's have acknowledged that there have been 20 IDF deaths (18 + 2 - Killed by Al Qassam in Dik, Central Gaza?).

If it is true and I can't believe I'm saying this but it seems these "terrorists" have more accurate information than anyone out there.

But then again, Al Qassam have been saying that they have killed 32 IDF soldiers whilst Israel's ambassador to the UN, Ron Prosor, has flatly rejected the fact that HAMAS have captured a soldier...

Reply 984

tsr1269

Comment on Sunday's infographic by the IDF propaganda machine: 87 Rocket Attacks is the lowest out of the 13 day operation. The norm is around 130 attacks per day.

Does this mean that the Israeli operation is succeeding?

No doubt that it would be portrayed to the gullible and fear stricken Israeli public in that manner but what is interesting is the omission of the 13 Israeli deaths.

I'd say that the reason why there were less rocket attacks is because the fighters who probably fire the rockets were out engaging with the Israeli soldiers.

I mean, let's face it: Is HAMAS going to care about the fact that it launched around 40 useless rockets less than the fact that it's brigades killed 13 (some reports putting it at 15) IDF soldiers?

Reply 985

tsr1269

Scenes of jubilation in the WB over the news by Al Qassam that they have "captured" an Israeli soldier:

However, Ron Prosor, has flatly denied that HAMAS or Al Qassam have "captured" an Israeli soldier:

“Those rumors are untrue,” says Ambassador Ron Prosor when asked about the kidnapping."

Who is telling the truth? Are they both right?

Reply 986

tsr1269

Kibbutz Nir-Am (Southern Israel) overrun by Palestinians. Gun battle raging in the area...

Reply 987

Chindits

Hamas instructs its 'media' department to ALWAYS refer to any casualties as "innocent civilians

The Interior Ministry of Hamas issued guidelines to Gaza social media users on how they should report events, advising them to depict all casualties as “innocent civilians,” and not to show evidence of rockets fired from population centers.

According to a report by MEMRI (the Middle East Media Research Institute) on Thursday, the campaign is being called the “Be Aware – Social Media Activist Awareness Campaign,” and an instructional video was posted on its official website and social media accounts.

And the BBC lap it up.

Reply 988

Chindits

Original post by Jammy Duel

You were saying? Also, giving the calibre is uninformative, for example, I could refer to a gun by it's caliber, 7.62mm, which is incredibly uninformative given how widely used it is, or even more uninformatively, give it as M-7.62

The rocket the Khaibar-1 is derived from is a Chinese make, which is named m-302 or Weishi, presumably not unrelated to the 302mm calibre.

I can quite safely say I know more than you, and general practice when you come across something you are unfamiliar with is to look it up, savvy? You may not be too capable at it, doesn't mean everybody else is as incompetent.

No.

Except, you expect the soldiers to die in war, if all the fatalities were soldier on the front line then it's a meaningless statistic, in fact, it would show just how ineffective Iron Dome is since it's taken fatalities from 0 in a war, to >0 while not at war. Also, was it not you who was the other day complaining about how you're too blind/deaf to see/hear the western media distinguishing between civilian and military deaths in Gaza?

It seems there's a general comprehension problem with you.

43 were killed in Israeli towns and cities by rockets.

I'm not sure how to make it any clearer. Do you need the street addresses of the rocket hits?

I literally can't be any clearer than this. This is the third time I'm saying this. 43 Israeli citizens died in several towns and cities before Iron Dome was in place.

Reply 989

tsr1269

Sirens ring out in Nahal Oz, Alumim, Ashdod, Ashkelon, Kiryat Malachi, Yavne, Tel Aviv, Rishon Lezion and Shefla.

I estimate 157 rockets will be launched by the Palestinians today...

Reply 990

the bear

Original post by tsr1269

Sirens ring out in Nahal Oz, Alumim, Ashdod, Ashkelon, Kiryat Malachi, Yavne, Tel Aviv, Rishon Lezion and Shefla.

I estimate 157 rockets will be launched by the Palestinians today...

very precise estimate :confused:

Reply 991

the bear

IDF are dealing efficiently with the tunnel cowards:

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/hamas-terrorists-swarm-from-tunnel-towards-kibbutzim-idf-kills-dozens/2014/07/21/

Reply 992

tsr1269

Original post by the bear

very precise estimate :confused:

Well, I do try to be as accurate as possible.

Reply 993

Chindits

Hamas instructional video on how to manipulate the media and call every death a civilian death

It's in Arabic though.

Reply 994

tsr1269

Unverified reports filtering through @qassam_arabic1 that Israel have confirmed the death of 5 IDF soldiers and 26 additional troops injured since this morning from an attack behind "enemy lines".

It also shows the snipe of an IDF soldier.

Reply 995

tsr1269

Unconfirmed reports stating Israel are using white phosphorus on densely populated areas:

Reply 996

tsr1269

Hezbollah have offered assistance to HAMAS...

Their involvement (especially in the form of weapons) will add a new dimension to this current Israeli operation....

Reply 997

Chindits

Original post by tsr1269

Unconfirmed reports stating Israel are using white phosphorus on densely populated areas:

Er, flares.

Reply 998

tsr1269

Original post by Chindits

Er, flares.

Clearly you know more than Al Jazeera and NBC so could you confirm what Al Qassam have stated (5 killed and 26 injured since this morning)?

Reply 999

tsr1269

Original post by Chindits

Your obsession with death and numbers there of, is highly disturbing but totally in keeping with pro-palestinians who I find to be a very wide-eyed, violent bunch with a seething rage.

Very disturbing 'people'

The IDF loves displaying their propagandist material in numbers via their much loved infographics...