Do you consider UKIP good or bad? Watch

geokinkladze
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#1021
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#1021
(Original post by brocklehurst95)
However, I wonder how many of the UKIP supporters actually know much else about the party's policies, for example their stance on climate change. This issue is probably far more threatening than immigration could ever be, yet Climate change is happening and no-one can argue that it it's not. And for a 'major' party to not have any policies about this is absolutely ridiculous. UKIP are creating a problem out of nothing around immigration and the EU. However they're doing nothing about the serious problem of climate change. It's frightening that people would actually think it's a good idea to vote for them.
Define what you mean by "climate change".

Then explain what you mean by "UKIP don't actually seem to believe in it."
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geokinkladze
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#1022
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#1022
(Original post by DIN-NARYU-FARORE)
If a man cannot make the shortlist for failing to have the correct requirements it is not sexist if women are given those jobs
By correct requirements are you referring to genitalia?
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DIN-NARYU-FARORE
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#1023
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#1023
(Original post by geokinkladze)
By correct requirements are you referring to genitalia?
dont be silly, professional requirements
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geokinkladze
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#1024
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#1024
(Original post by DIN-NARYU-FARORE)
dont be silly, professional requirements
So what you are claiming is that Labour's policy of all women shortlists is based on the principle that men couldn't apply for the position because men couldn't fulfill the professional requirements?
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geokinkladze
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#1025
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#1025
Here's your stance on the right of the public to a referendum on EU membership:

(Original post by democracyforum)
Letting the public decide our EU membership
(Original post by DIN-NARYU-FARORE)
the public are not fully informed on the gravity of leaving the EU


(Original post by democracyforum)
Let them vote on it
(Original post by DIN-NARYU-FARORE)
Nah mate

leave the EU

country goes to ****
Which happens to be completely at odds with the party you support. The Greens are pro-referendum. You are anti-referendum on the basis the people can't be trusted to make the correct choice.
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zippity.doodah
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#1026
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#1026
good mostly
they're not a racist political party but they obviously accidentally employ racists sometimes
they have a libertarian leader but sadly the party isn't always the same
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DIN-NARYU-FARORE
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#1027
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#1027
(Original post by geokinkladze)
So what you are claiming is that Labour's policy of all women shortlists is based on the principle that men couldn't apply for the position because men couldn't fulfill the professional requirements?
you caught on
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DIN-NARYU-FARORE
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#1028
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#1028
(Original post by geokinkladze)
Here's your stance on the right of the public to a referendum on EU membership:











Which happens to be completely at odds with the party you support. The Greens are pro-referendum. You are anti-referendum on the basis the people can't be trusted to make the correct choice.
The greens know there wont be enough votes to get britain out of EU. i dont trust people who are anti-EU and the second quote was an expression of exasperation
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brocklehurst95
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#1029
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#1029
(Original post by geokinkladze)
Define what you mean by "climate change".

Then explain what you mean by "UKIP don't actually seem to believe in it."
I came here for a debate, not to be some sort of walking dictionary.

Climate change is exactly that. There's been a change in the climate. The recent burst in carbon emissions and it's huge potential for impacting the environment is an example. Now it's your turn to explain to me why UKIP want to "repeal the Climate Change Act 2008"

http://www.ukip.org/policies_for_people
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geokinkladze
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#1030
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#1030
(Original post by brocklehurst95)
Cllimate change is exactly that. There's been a change in the climate.
Ok, so you don't specifically mean anthropogenic climate change then. That's fair enough. In that case you have been mislead if you have been led to believe that UKIP don't believe in it. I don't see anywhere an official UKIP policy that indicates the earth's climate isn't warming up.

UKIP don't believe the extent of this warming is entirely man made, or that the earths climate is as sensitive to CO2 emmision's as it is estimated to be by some.

However bearing that in mind UKIP's policy IS still to REDUCE carbon emissions....


(Original post by brocklehurst95)
Now it's your turn to explain to me why UKIP want to "repeal the Climate Change Act 2008"
...However it's a simple case of "by how much". The 2008 climate change act was initially based on the IPCC report back in 1995. Since then there have been other IPCC reports and one thing that you can be sure of is that there is no real consensus, even according to the IPCC, over sensivity of the earth's climate to CO2 emmisions.

So the reason UKIP want to scrap the 2008 climate change act 2008 is because they believe it is too costly for consumers to implement (UKIP estimate to be approx £28k per household per lifetime) for the benefit it brings.

UKIP do want to move the UK's power sources over to nuclear power, this will have the effect of reducing CO2 emmissions at a more cost effective rate than the provisions of the climate change act 2008.
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geokinkladze
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#1031
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(Original post by DIN-NARYU-FARORE)
you caught on
It seems you believe men don't have the professional requirements to fulfill certain roles.

I guess you are sexist. I bet you call yourself a feminist, but it's not feminism you advocate, it's sexism.
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Leeds98
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#1032
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(Original post by brocklehurst95)
UKIP are mainly known for their stance on immigration and the EU. Whilst I completely disagree with them, I'm not naive enough to think that the matter is completely one sided.

However, I wonder how many of the UKIP supporters actually know much else about the party's policies, for example their stance on climate change. This issue is probably far more threatening than immigration could ever be, yet UKIP don't actually seem to believe in it. Climate change is happening and no-one can argue that it it's not. And for a 'major' party to not have any policies about this is absolutely ridiculous.

UKIP are creating a problem out of nothing around immigration and the EU. However they're doing nothing about the serious problem of climate change. It's frightening that people would actually think it's a good idea to vote for them.
'UKIP are creating a problem out of nothing around immigration' yeah im sure it seems like that if you live in a leafy middle class suburb and the only immigrants you see are the ones that wash you car. Meanwhile in my local area a young girl was nearly murdered during a rape attempt in a predominatly asian area by an asian man. Not the latest sexual violence experienced by west yorkshire girls inflicted by the Asian community either. School places are full and a&e are at breaking point. Its the poorest communties that are been sold out and if Labours pathetic apologies are not going to win them any votes after calling concerned people racists for the last decade.
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brocklehurst95
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#1033
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#1033
(Original post by geokinkladze)
BLAH
No-one really knows whether humans are causing climate change or not, but there is plenty of evidence that something is changing. And who else is going to help reduce the impact of it? God? No, we need to put policies in place to do this. UKIP are the only party that don't have a convincing plan to tackle this. Very worrying.

Reading between the lines, UKIP won't do anything to reduce climate change. Nuclear power is hardly groundbreaking (although it is very important). It seems like they're just finding lots of ways to reduce costs. Their reasoning for leaving the EU is to save £10bn. How ridiculous is that, the EU brings in way more than that to the economy. Definitely a price worth paying. Same goes for climate change. You can't put a price on the quality of life that we have now because sure enough it'll worse off if UKIP have their way.
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brocklehurst95
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#1034
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(Original post by Leeds98)
'UKIP are creating a problem out of nothing around immigration' yeah im sure it seems like that if you live in a leafy middle class suburb and the only immigrants you see are the ones that wash you car. Meanwhile in my local area a young girl was nearly murdered during a rape attempt in a predominatly asian area by an asian man. Not the latest sexual violence experienced by west yorkshire girls inflicted by the Asian community either. School places are full and a&e are at breaking point. Its the poorest communties that are been sold out and if Labours pathetic apologies are not going to win them any votes after calling concerned people racists for the last decade.
Obviously what happened near you is shocking and shouldn't happen to anyone. But an attack by a few Asian guys shouldn't get in the way of the other immigrants who actually make a life in the UK. I'm especially talking about the EU here, where people have a right of free movement to work and live.

My mum is an immigrant, she moved here from East Germany in the early 90s. She now works as a teacher, got a family and lives a normal life blah blah blah. I don't see what's wrong with someone moving to the UK for a better quality life.

And if the schools are full and A&E is busy then surely the problem lies with the health and education systems for not providing. Don't blame the immigrants for getting what everyone in the UK gets.
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Maker
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#1035
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(Original post by Leeds98)
'UKIP are creating a problem out of nothing around immigration' yeah im sure it seems like that if you live in a leafy middle class suburb and the only immigrants you see are the ones that wash you car. Meanwhile in my local area a young girl was nearly murdered during a rape attempt in a predominatly asian area by an asian man. Not the latest sexual violence experienced by west yorkshire girls inflicted by the Asian community either. School places are full and a&e are at breaking point. Its the poorest communties that are been sold out and if Labours pathetic apologies are not going to win them any votes after calling concerned people racists for the last decade.
Lots of immigrants work in the NHS and education. I used to work with a GP from India whose son is also a doctor and I had a teacher from India when I was at school.

Immigrants pay taxes that is used to pay for the NHS and schools. If there are shortages in the NHS and education, that is a fault of government spending taxes.

Criminals come from all over the place, I'm sure you would ignore the crimes native Britains commit on each other and on immigrants because it does not fit your narrative.
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chocolate hottie
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#1036
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#1036
(Original post by Rooster523)
UKIP are bad because:

1) They wish to remove the UK from the jurisdiction of the EU court of human rights. You heard me, UKIP wants the UK not to have to abide by laws that protect fundamental human rights and freedoms.
You are wrong. Yes they want the UK to be removed from the EU Court of Human Rights, (they want to leave the EU which will necessitate this in my view) but no they don't want the UK not to abide by laws that protect fundamental human rights and freedoms.

It is a repatriation of powers, not a destruction of them. The USA, for example, does not belong to the EU Court of Human Rights, but has its freedoms protected by its Constitution. They are a sovereign nation, we are not whilst in the EU.
(Original post by Rooster523)
2) 'No to political correctness'- basically they'd like to create a platform where racist/homophobic/islamaphobic statements are no longer frowned upon. They say PC stifles free speech, I say not having it segregates society.
Yes, they are against political correctness. You have offered no substantive argument in favour of it, just said that you don't agree. Fine, but who cares?
(Original post by Rooster523)
3) Their entire immigration policy is based on fear and intolerance. 'Immigrants put pressure on the healthcare system'- Nope, the elderly put pressure on the healthcare system and arguably, the NHS wouldn't function without immigrants.- this is one example, there's many more but I'm not really in the mood to list every single one.
They seek to control immigration, following a withdrawal from the EU. Presently we have an immigration system which is out of control. In opposing controls you are proposing what we have now, a de facto OPEN DOOR for anyone from the EU to come and live here. The pressure on GP's (have you tried to get an appointment recently?) , on school places and housing are the consequences of the insane policies of successive governments who have allowed millions of immigrants into the country.
(Original post by Rooster523)
4) Their policies are based on idealisms, not realisms. They want lower taxes but more police on the streets, improved roads. Fair enough- but where's that money going to come from?
None of the political parties about being honest with the electorate about the state of the public finances, but at least UKIP are committed to slash the Foreign Aid budget and no longer pay billions in membership fees to the EU.
(Original post by Rooster523)
5) Their immigration policy will see an increase in homelessness and crimes committed by immigrants. 'Immigrants must financially support themselves for 5 years before receiving state help'. Example: A migrant worker works in the UK for 2 years, brings his family here, things are looking good. Company he works for gets made redundant, can no longer afford things, is not entitled to benefits or any state help. Begins stealing to provide for his family.
Immigrants without jobs and who resort to crime should be deported, which we can do if we leave the EU. It is the policies that you support which mean they effectively can't at the moment. If you want foreign criminals out of the country, vote UKIP. No other party offers even the possibility of it.
(Original post by Rooster523)
Just a few I can think of off the top of my head
That's a relief.
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chocolate hottie
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#1037
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(Original post by brocklehurst95)
Obviously what happened near you is shocking and shouldn't happen to anyone. But an attack by a few Asian guys shouldn't get in the way of the other immigrants who actually make a life in the UK. I'm especially talking about the EU here, where people have a right of free movement to work and live.

My mum is an immigrant, she moved here from East Germany in the early 90s. She now works as a teacher, got a family and lives a normal life blah blah blah. I don't see what's wrong with someone moving to the UK for a better quality life.

And if the schools are full and A&E is busy then surely the problem lies with the health and education systems for not providing. Don't blame the immigrants for getting what everyone in the UK gets.
You do know that building schools and hospitals costs money, lots of money, don't you?

And takes a lot of time. What we have now is hundreds of thousands of new citizens coming to live here every year. EVERY YEAR. That is why the infrastructure can't hope to cope.

What is wrong with controlling the amount of population? Why not have a points based system and no open door?
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chocolate hottie
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#1038
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#1038
(Original post by brocklehurst95)
UKIP are mainly known for their stance on immigration and the EU. Whilst I completely disagree with them, I'm not naive enough to think that the matter is completely one sided.

However, I wonder how many of the UKIP supporters actually know much else about the party's policies, for example their stance on climate change. This issue is probably far more threatening than immigration could ever be, yet UKIP don't actually seem to believe in it. Climate change is happening and no-one can argue that it it's not. And for a 'major' party to not have any policies about this is absolutely ridiculous.

UKIP are creating a problem out of nothing around immigration and the EU. However they're doing nothing about the serious problem of climate change. It's frightening that people would actually think it's a good idea to vote for them.
They are reflecting the views of the majority of the UK population (of all ethnicities by the way) who want an end to open door immigration.

Your position that this is a problem out of nothing is mad. We are building half the number of homes each year as we have net new arrivals coming to live here, for example.

Why do you think we have a housing crisis? Duh. Too many people, not enough housing...

As for climate change, do you really think that paying landowners millions of pounds to build inefficient wind farms whilst not building new power stations is any way to run an energy policy?
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brocklehurst95
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#1039
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(Original post by chocolate hottie)
You do know that building schools and hospitals costs money, lots of money, don't you?

And takes a lot of time. What we have now is hundreds of thousands of new citizens coming to live here every year. EVERY YEAR. That is why the infrastructure can't hope to cope.

What is wrong with controlling the amount of population? Why not have a points based system and no open door?
Don't try and patronise me, alright.

"Oh no, the infrastructure can't cope. We better do something about it"
"Why not improve the infrastructure to meet demand?"
"Nah, it'll cost more than the £10bn we're saving from leaving the EU"
"You're right, let's blame overpopulation instead"

Let me get this straight. You're blaming the infrastructure for not being up to scratch, right? And the solution would be to stop immigrants using it?

You've just defined discrimination. And I don't care what your political beliefs are, discrimination is just wrong.
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ZolaCFC25
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#1040
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If the BNP was a 1/10, then UKIP is a 1.5.

Cue all this 'they're regular people who speak their mind and stand for Britain and it's values without the PC brigade and European interference into our godsend of a country' lmao what tosh. Just admit you're a ****.
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