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    (Original post by atom y humber)
    Yh. Did deflation actually ever happened? I'm so ****ing confused with reports of lies been told by the NFL from the inception. Apparently this Kensil guy is an ex jet exec or something and hates bill to deaths.
    It's weird because something probably happened, and the idea that McNally called himself the deflator in a conversation about game balls because he was trying to lose weight is totally implausible. BUT that doesn't mean anything illegal happened, because he could have actually meant something innocuous like that he was going to deflate the balls before the referees inspected them and hope they got passed.

    But the NFL has behaved ridiculously. Leaking information, refusing to correct it, having their attorney review and edit the "independent" report. All these things are procedural issues that are more relevant to an arbitration hearing than whether balls were actually deflated.

    Also someone called the redskins a functional organisation. Redskins? Functional? REDSKINS......FUNCTIONAL!!!!!Lol oolololololololololololol
    I saw a press conference with their new GM and I've been fairly impressed by him. But yeah no organisation Dan Snyder has ever run has lived up to the word "functional." Interesting that the players seem to like him though (Fred Smoot and Matt Bowen have both said this).
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    Arian Foster needs groin surgery which is not thought to be season ending. That probably ends the chances of the Texans making the playoffs though; Alfred Blue and Jonathan Grimes can't come close to that sort of production and the Texans have a well documented QB issue.
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    I thought Blue had been pretty solid in Foster's absence previously but I have to admit I don't follow the Texans. Unfortunately the team who fluked into their second generational quarterback in a row and has never been able to build a good team around either will be the team to beat in that division for the next decade. There are a lot of committee ready backs on the street right now. Pierre Thomas, Knowshon Moreno, Ahmad Bradshaw and Fred Jackson are all probably on the list ahead of the PR nightmare that is Ray Rice. Also the Jets will probably cut at least one NFL calibre back, so will the Raiders, probably others too.
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    He's alright to be fair, he got carted off in practice too though so his status is a bit up in the air. If it was leg cramp though, he'll be fine. There's been murmurs that Chris Polk is actually pretty good too but Foster is a Top 10 back in the league when healthy and I don't think those three guys come close to that level.

    The RBBC is only going to grow I think, this years draft was exceptional for running backs but not all of them are going to be every down backs their entire careers. Some teams are now committed to their committees and don't even look for an every down back. I sometimes think giving the D a different sort of runner to defend can be an effective way to restart a run game which maybe hasn't got going early on.
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    Apparently they have been working out Thomas and BJGE, whom I'd forgotten about. I think with injury rates and how much you expect a back to do, having a committee is basically a no brainer at this point. Not for the Seahawks, Bills, Vikings, Steelers or Bears, maybe not the Raiders, Chiefs or Titans, but most other teams should really be going down that route.
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    This deflategate stuff is starting to get old real quickly. I just want it over with now...
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    (Original post by SmashConcept)
    I thought Blue had been pretty solid in Foster's absence previously but I have to admit I don't follow the Texans. Unfortunately the team who fluked into their second generational quarterback in a row and has never been able to build a good team around either will be the team to beat in that division for the next decade. There are a lot of committee ready backs on the street right now. Pierre Thomas, Knowshon Moreno, Ahmad Bradshaw and Fred Jackson are all probably on the list ahead of the PR nightmare that is Ray Rice. Also the Jets will probably cut at least one NFL calibre back, so will the Raiders, probably others too.
    If the current reports from Denver's training camps are to be believed, then even Ronnie Hillman is facing an uphill battle to keep his roster spot. Denver basically have about five running backs who are exactly in the mould of CJ Anderson, (ie. a 5ft8-5ft10, 220-230lbs, 4.6s RB) but no running back on the roster comes close to the game-changing speed Hillman has.

    Alfred Blue did seem solid to me, but I would expect the Texans to seriously consider a trade, especially if they don't sign Pierre Thomas. I like him as a swiss-army knife on third downs, but they need a chain mover. Knowshon Moreno and Ahmad Bradshaw are quality players, but just too injury prone to consider as a replacement for top quality, but also injury prone RB. Fred Jackson, is still the Bills' no.2 RB, and is as solid as ever. I wouldn't even humour Ray Rice with a phone call even if I was the Texans' GM.

    I disagree with the notion that the RBBC approach should be or is taken by a majority of teams, and frankly, they are done by teams who do not have a premier three down back. A change of pace back, or even a thunder and lightning setup where there is a running back who is getting the majority of carries doesn't really constitute a committee approach. The teams that do not have a running game are realising that they have to prioritise the position.

    The three-down running back, is making a resurgence, and you can see that in the way in which the RB position is having its value, rightfully, restored. There have been some great classes of running backs coming in the past few years.

    NFC-East
    Dallas: Solid No. 1 Back (Joseph Randle) and change of pace (Lance Dunbar)
    New York: RBBC (Rashad Jennings, Shane Vereen and Andre Williams)
    Philadelphia: Franchise 3-down back (Demarco Murray)
    Washington: Solid No.1 Back (Alfred Morris)

    NFC-North
    Chicago: Franchise, 3-down Back (Matt Forte)
    Detroit: RRBC (Joique Bell, Ameer Abdullah and Theo Reddick)
    Green Bay: Franchise 3-down Back (Eddie Lacy)
    Minnesota: Franchise 3-down Back (Adrian Peterson)

    NFC-South
    Atlanta 1-2 punch (Tevin Coleman and De'vonta Freeman to split majority of carries; Antone Smith as change of pace)
    Carolina: Solid No.1 (Jonathan Stewart getting vast majority of carries; up in the air behind him although I'd expect Cameron Artis-Payne to be change of pace)
    New Orleans: 75% Thunder and 25% Lightning (Mark Ingram and CJ Spiller)
    Tampa: RRBC (Doug Martin and Bobby Rainey to split majority of carries; Charles Sims as no.3 RB)

    NFC-West
    Arizona: 60% Thunder and 40% Lightning (David Johnson and Andre Ellington)
    San Francisco: RRBC (Reggie Bush as third down back, Carlos Hyde as a two down back, Mike Davis and Kendell Hunter as change of pace back)
    Seattle: Franchise Back (Marshawn Lynch)
    St. Louis: 80% Thunder and 20% Lightning (Todd Gurley and Tre Mason)

    AFC-East
    Buffalo: Franchise 3-down Back (LeSean McCoy)
    Miami: Solid No.1 Back (Lamar Miller)
    New England: Depends on how Bill Belichick is feeling, but they seem to have a Solid No.1 Back (LeGarrette Blount)
    New York: RBBC (Chris Ivory, Shane Vereen, Bilali Powell and Zac Stacy) [Will be brutal]

    AFC-North
    Baltimore: Solid No.1 Back (Justin Forsett)
    Cincinnati: 60% Thunder and 40% Lightning (Jeremy Hill and Giovani Bernard)
    Cleveland: RRBC (Duke Johnson, Isaiah Crowell and Terrence West)
    Pittsburgh: Franchise 3-down Back (Le'veon Bell)

    AFC-South
    Houston: Did have a Franchise 3-down Back (Arian Foster); will have to turn to a RRBC approach
    Indianapolis: Solid No.1 Back (Frank Gore)
    Jacksonville: 80% Thunder and 20% Lightning (TJ Yeldon and Dennard Robinson)
    Tennesee: RRBC (Bishop Sankey, Dexter McCluster and David Cobb)

    AFC-West
    Denver: RRBC (CJ Anderson, Montee Ball, Juwan Thompson and Ronnie Hillman as a change of pace back)
    Kansas City: Franchise No.1 Back (Jamaal Charles)
    Oakland: Solid No.1 Back (Latavius Murray)
    San Diego: Solid No.1 Back (Melvin Gordon)
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    Also, according to Battle Red Blog, Arian Foster basically ripped his groin muscle 'off the bone.'

    http://www.battleredblog.com/2015/8/...d-off-the-bone
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    I thought Jackson was a free agent for some reason, maybe I'm thinking of someone else.

    I think maybe we're talking about different things. I don't think a team should necessarily aim for a committee approach, but I think it makes sense to at least prepare their rosters in such a way that it's possible.

    On your list, straight out I disagree about Dallas and Philly. Randle has never shown himself to be a franchise back and Chip was forthright about splitting carries between Matthews and Murray. I think the Boys sign another serviceable back out of the list I mentioned or someone who gets cut and go with a hot hand approach. I'm not ready to give Melvin Gordon credit for carrying the load before he touches an NFL field. As a point of fact you have Vereen playing for both Jersey teams. The Jets got Ridley and will probably cut someone once he gets healthy.
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    But you're right, I did forget about a few teams with emergent #1 backs like Miami and Washington, although the latter did draft a player with a pretty similar profile to Morris IIRC.

    Forsett has had one season as a 3 down back, and then turned 29 so I'm not thoroughly convinced there.
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    (Original post by SmashConcept)
    I thought Jackson was a free agent for some reason, maybe I'm thinking of someone else.

    I think maybe we're talking about different things. I don't think a team should necessarily aim for a committee approach, but I think it makes sense to at least prepare their rosters in such a way that it's possible.

    On your list, straight out I disagree about Dallas and Philly. Randle has never shown himself to be a franchise back and Chip was forthright about splitting carries between Matthews and Murray. I think the Boys sign another serviceable back out of the list I mentioned or someone who gets cut and go with a hot hand approach. I'm not ready to give Melvin Gordon credit for carrying the load before he touches an NFL field. As a point of fact you have Vereen playing for both Jersey teams. The Jets got Ridley and will probably cut someone once he gets healthy.
    I do agree with your notion that teams should have enough depth in the running back position to make a committee approach work, even if they do not aim to use a committee approach.

    I mean, Denver's a great case in point about that. CJ Anderson and Juwan Thompson were both undrafted and made the team, and have risen up the depth chart to such an extent that CJ is the defacto number 1 back going into the season, and Thompson is basically the number 3 back, and furthermore, they are all good enough to take snaps away from eachother, effectively forcing the Coaches' hands and bringing about a defacto committee approach. The battle between them, and Montee Ball, will help keep them fresh, and if one goes down one can step in and the running game won't suffer too much (knock on wood, that they stay healthy though). And then, there's the battle behind them, between Jeremy Stewart, Ronnie Hillman and Kapri Bibbs, which is absolutely brutal. All talented backs. So, yeah, in that respect there's a fair few teams who have some deep running back depth. that they are defacto RBBC approaches.

    In fairness, most NFL teams have a solid one-two punch as well at RB. I think there's also beginning to be a shift, with change of pace backs getting a bit more value, with the likes of CJ Spiller, Darren Sproles, Ronnie Hillman, Andre Ellington, GIo Bernard. etc.

    Yup, I just rushed that list in the end. Of course, you're right. Ridley's for the Jets, Vereen's for the Giants. While I think a lead back will emerge for most teams, I don't know who will get the lead back. Ivory was amazing last season, but Ridley could well be that guy.

    I think with Melvin Gordon (and Todd Gurley), San Diego and St. Louis will expect that sort of franchise three-down status, given the high draft picks invested in them. I was tempted to put San Diego as a RBBC approach -- especially since Danny Woodhead should get the majority of third-and-longs -- but Brandon Oliver is more of a 'finisher,' and I can see him used in mop-up duty behind Melvin Gordon. Not a bad problem to have, mind.

    With Dallas, I'm not really convinced with any of their running backs -- and it's especially frustrating that Antwan Goodley, with his elite speed, is not being considered in a running back role for them. Not only is he a bigger, faster and stronger version of Danny Woodhead, he has plus hands for the RB position, and he has the body type to be a running back. With the lanes Dallas' zone block would create, a bit of patience and developing would really work wonders. His routes were not as crisp as they needed to be and his hands are not where they need to be for him to be a half-decent slot receiver. Darren McFadden isn't really the solution. Dunbar's probably the safest bet to rise to the top, as an in-house option, and they don't have the running backs on the roster to make a running back by committee approach work. Are the running backs elite? Of course not. Is that even league-average running back roster? Maybe not. However, of the running backs on the roster, Dunbar's probably the guy.

    Moreno to Dallas could well be a good option. He's one of my favourite running backs especially with what he did in Denver. He gives his all for every game, and it's just unfortunate with his injuries. Shame.

    Ryan Mathews and DeMarco Murray could very well be the league's best 1-2 punch, especially with Chip Kelly's preference for power backs in a zone scheme. While you can make a case that they will be RBBC with Darren Sproles as well, I still think DeMarco Murray will win out. He has the biggest contract of those three, and while a starting position should be on merit rather than finances, Chip pulled the trigger for DeMarco Murray, and got the team to pay him the money. The thing with the Eagles' backfield, is that, it could well be one of the best in the league, or it could flame out because Mathews and Murray succumb to injuries.

    With regard to Miami, that was a hard one. I hope Jay Ajayi makes it in the NFL, and I believe he will. There's a lot of good running backs who can run inside and outside of the tackles, and catch well, but who can't pass-protect, and consequently lose out on reps/roster spots. However, word is that Lamar Miller is in the 225-230lbs range, and still displaying enough speed. If he stays injury free enough, he should be the number one guy.

    Matt Jones out of Florida did go to Washington and yeah, he's a bigger back like Morris.

    Forsett's probably the best bet of those on the Baltimore Raven's roster right now. He's not a franchise guy, but I can't really see the other backs taking too much out of him. Pierce and Rice are gone, Taliaferro and Toussaint are okay, but they are no.2 and no.3 backs, and there's more of a hierarchy there. Forsett was a beast in fantasy last season, but the Ravens were one of the more frustrating teams because they had drives where they would only use one running back, or they'd use Forsett for one drive, and then Bernard Pierce would come out of nowhere to get the TD or something....Forsett is approaching 30, but there's plenty of tread on the tyres. I think career carries is more important to consider than age.
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    I am enjoying the RB analysis! Definitely not a devalued position from a discussion point of view. Marquise Lee (Jags 2014 2nd round pick) pulled his hamstring again. If you didn't pull a hamstring today you escaped. Dwanye Bowe, Tevin Coleman (Falcons rookie RB) Tyrelle Pryor and Shaq Thompson all sat or went down with hamstrings too.

    I suppose the silver lining is that it's not yet the ACL Armageddon we had last training camp although there's a long way to go.
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    (Original post by Wattsy)
    I am enjoying the RB analysis! Definitely not a devalued position from a discussion point of view. Marquise Lee (Jags 2014 2nd round pick) pulled his hamstring again. If you didn't pull a hamstring today you escaped. Dwanye Bowe, Tevin Coleman (Falcons rookie RB) Tyrelle Pryor and Shaq Thompson all sat or went down with hamstrings too.

    I suppose the silver lining is that it's not yet the ACL Armageddon we had last training camp although there's a long way to go.
    Shudders at ACL Armageddon...:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: So, was today Hamstring Hijinks?

    The thing is, RBs are still underrated for everyone's team until they either lose their starting running back, or lose more games because they can't or won't run out the clock. With all of the focus on the hurry-up offense in recent seasons, the time-of-possession battle has lost a lot of focus. No defense -- even Seattle's -- can cope with being on the field for 40 minutes a game.

    A QB's best friend has always been their running back, not just for pass protections, and to get one-on-one matchups in the secondary, but to keep the defense fresh, which ultimately gives the whole team a better chance of winning. The Lions would have won the NFC last season had they had even a half-decent running game, especially with how their defense was playing -- but due to the lack of running game, that defense was on the field for far too long, and they blew a lot of leads late.
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    I like hamstring hijinks, get yourself the patent!

    Yeah obviously it depends on the offensive coordinators style to some degree but you'll always need your RB in blitz pickups, as a safety blanket blocker and chew clock situations. If they can't consistently get 3 YPC on an inside run when the clock needs to be ticking then you will put yourself in situations to lose games. The 2013/14 Cowboys are a great example of the clock management issue not based on RB talent but just because of the QBs audibles and a pass happy coach and coordinator. They addressed the balance between pass and run and reigned in Romo's audibles in chew clock offence and they had a nice run in the playoffs.
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    I think you're right about Forsett being the #1 in Baltimore. I think being an outside zone back is quite different from what a lot of backs are doing, and Forsett doesn't have too much mileage so I see him having a similar year in terms of workload. Apparently the Cowboys are "frustrated" because signing an injury prone back who then got injured has left their two replacement level backs with too much workload in camp. Duh.
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    (Original post by SmashConcept)
    I think you're right about Forsett being the #1 in Baltimore. I think being an outside zone back is quite different from what a lot of backs are doing, and Forsett doesn't have too much mileage so I see him having a similar year in terms of workload. Apparently the Cowboys are "frustrated" because signing an injury prone back who then got injured has left their two replacement level backs with too much workload in camp. Duh.
    I was thinking about the Cowboys' running back situation, and it's not great. At this rate, Randle's going to get the main gig by default, but he didn't exactly set the world on fire in limited action last year, I must admit...

    I didn't realize Forsett went to Cal as well. Marshawn Lynch, CJ Anderson, Forsett, and Shane Vereen is a nice group. Alabama have Mark Ingram, Eddie Lacy, [Trent Richardson] and TJ Yeldon, so I'm surprised how well Cal stack up in the running back stakes...maybe only FSU and Auburn can hold a candle to that group.

    Wattsy , you'll probably appreciate this. As well as getting TJ Yeldon, the Jags picked up Corey Grant from Auburn in the draft. He is an absolute speedster, with legitimate 4.2 speed, 5ft 10, although he just needs to get the mental side of the game done. More of a Ronnie Hillman 2.0. If he can do blocks like this, he has a great chance of making the Jags' roster.What's the current word from Duval County? Is he just going to be a returner? Or, are they going to see what he can do in a rotational role on offense?



    On a side note, I hope Nick Marshall can make the final roster. The team needs to be patient with him but he has the physical tools.
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    Also, Aldon Smith has been cut from the 49ers, for a hit and run, and a DUI. Such a promising career wasted, the 49ers' terrible offseason continues, and no team will surely pick him up now.
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    @jammy4041 (I like this mentions feature) Aldon Smith is an idiot and the 49ers soul destroying offseason just gets worse.

    I'll ask the Jags Q&A guy about Corey Grant actually, I've not heard much about him in camp and as you could probably have guessed, I've been all over the Jags training camp news. John Oehser is on the case. I have heard he's dropped a few punts/kick offs in camp which is obviously not great. Returner is a pretty strong position now with Robinson and Greene so we shall see.
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    Never seen such a horrendous off season for one team before
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    I'm watching Jags live scrimmage... I need football! They sing the anthem at scrimmage too though. Insane. Nick Marshall by the way, the QB who converted to corner again at the Senior Bowl... he's actually pretty good. Raw and probably a 1 year project but he could be really good.

    Corey Grant has been really really impressive in the framework of what he can do in camp. May be the 4th or 5th RB on the roster according to JP Shadrick Jags staff writer. The Jags O-Line are getting absolutely killed by the the Jags D-Line on every play; pass or run its a struggle. When Bortles has time he can put the ball in the right spots. Allen Robinson just caught a 30 yard lob pass laying out for the TD. Another over the shoulder TD throw to Julius Thomas and Hurns dropped a 50 yard bomb down the sideline.

    Josh Scobee is seriously in danger of losing his spot at kicker. Chris Myers is hammering them and can apparently kick 68 yard FGs. He's got a massive leg. He hit his 60 attempt, Scobee missed his wide left. He used to kick in the Arena League so he must be accurate too!
 
 
 
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