Do you consider UKIP good or bad? Watch

chocolate hottie
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#1061
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#1061
(Original post by brocklehurst95)
I never would've thought I would create such a stir. I wanted to lighthearted discussion about UKIP... Has some immigrant taken your job? Maybe that's why you've taken to the extreme measure to vote UKIP. Over and out.
If you don't want to have your ridiculous political views scrutinised don't start calling people who will vote in different way from you "extreme."

And if you can't stand the heat of the debate that ensues, stay out of the kitchen. Some of us are passionate about politics and about our country.

I'll debate UKIP with anyone on here, like all kippers I really care.
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chocolate hottie
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#1062
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#1062
(Original post by InnerTemple)
So how do UKIP's policies reflect this?

Which of their policies would you say best help the poor and downtrodden?
We will control immigration. The poor and downtrodden have suffered the most from this.

Immigrants have taken their unskilled jobs, they have taken social housing, they have filled the local schools, the maternity wards, the hospital beds.

And they are sick of being labelled "racist" when they complain. They are sick of having their vote taken for granted by LibLabCon. UKIP has a lot of first time voters.

You probably haven't noticed this because it doesn't affect you. But get yourself down to talk to some actual poor people, you know the oiks. Ask WHY they are voting UKIP.

You will learn something they don't teach in your middle class university, bubble of privilege.
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geokinkladze
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#1063
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#1063
(Original post by brocklehurst95)
I never would've thought I would create such a stir.
Believe me you haven't.

There's pages of light hearted debate in this thread, quite a bit of deeper analysis too.

Your contribution amounts to announcing you were here for a debate, regurgitate a bit of nonsense, throw a proverbial hissy fit and then threaten to storm off.


(Original post by brocklehurst95)
I've not got the time to be arguing with you.
Going so soon?
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InnerTemple
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#1064
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#1064
(Original post by chocolate hottie)
We will control immigration. The poor and downtrodden have suffered the most from this.

Immigrants have taken their unskilled jobs, they have taken social housing, they have filled the local schools, the maternity wards, the hospital beds.

And they are sick of being labelled "racist" when they complain. They are sick of having their vote taken for granted by LibLabCon. UKIP has a lot of first time voters.

You probably haven't noticed this because it doesn't affect you. But get yourself down to talk to some actual poor people, you know the oiks. Ask WHY they are voting UKIP.

You will learn something they don't teach in your middle class university, bubble of privilege.
Anything other than immigration?

Because we know that the evidence is rather sketchy at best when it comes to saying that immigrants have been a strain on things like welfare, housing and the NHS.

We also know that immigration has brought great benefits to the UK.

So what else will UKIP offer poor, downtrodden people?
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DIN-NARYU-FARORE
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#1065
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#1065
(Original post by geokinkladze)
Are you deliberately trying to pretend you misunderstand what an all women shortlist is?

The labour party decide that certain constituencies will be represented by a woman before even considering the candidates. This means that no men are to be considered, it is a policy decision to refuse men the opportunity to even be considered as candidates.
all about the qualifications, and whether you have it or not, my young boy
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Eboracum
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#1066
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#1066
(Original post by InnerTemple)
We also know that immigration has brought great benefits to the UK.
What would you suggest are the great benefits of immigration to the UK?

And I don't want to hear about GDP growth. Not all GDP growth is good. In some cases I'd rather have less and less immigration. What you gain financially, you lose culturally.

The best thing about UKIP is they've opened up a debate on political correctness, which, has gone mad in this country. If in America you say 'American jobs for American people' you are labelled a hero. If you say 'British jobs for British people' you are labelled a racist. And that is so so sad. It's better to have a lesser qualified British person in a British job than a better non-British citizen. Otherwise, that British person requires unemployment benefits, which have to be paid for. Basic basic Mathematics.

It's also not racist to want to control your own borders. It's simply sensible. I have complete control on who comes into my house. And I expect my government to have complete control on who comes into my country.

I like UKIP, although I liked Miliband in tonights tv debate.
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geokinkladze
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#1067
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#1067
(Original post by DIN-NARYU-FARORE)
all about the qualifications, and whether you have it or not, my young boy
Well if you have a young boy of your own and he ever gets ambitions of such a role and he is disqualified on account of his gender, then I'm sure those words would console him.
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DIN-NARYU-FARORE
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#1068
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#1068
(Original post by geokinkladze)
Well if you have a young boy of your own and he ever gets ambitions of such a role and he is disqualified on account of his gender, then I'm sure those words would console him.
why do you presume the parties are sexist?
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sacca
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#1069
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#1069
They are very misogynistic and racist, as somebody who takes social justice seriously I would kill myself before voiting for ukip.
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sacca
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#1070
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#1070
(Original post by DIN-NARYU-FARORE)
why do you presume the parties are sexist?
well beacause we live in patriachy for starters
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Smonnie
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#1071
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#1071
(Original post by chocolate hottie)
Are you for real???

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21682810

"Laughably...the department's here were out by about 2,200% which is frankly not a brilliant forecast."

No-one had a clue how many immigrants would come, have a clue how many will come next year or the year after.

We have an open door immigration policy. Anyone from the EU that wants to come here and live CAN come and live, we have no control of it whatsoever.

1. WHY is pointing this out "scapegoating" immigrants as you keep saying?

2. What is wrong with having a points based immigration policy to control it?
I don't know how forecasting for school places is done.

1) I am saying that politicians focus on 'immigrants putting pressure on xyz' because it is popular, when actually, the elderly, the obese, smokers, drinkers and drug users put more strain on the NHS, law and order, housing etc.

2) Nothing. I already said I would favour that going forward - but it is difficult to do whilst part of the EU, and I think EU membership is more important.
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InnerTemple
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#1072
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#1072
(Original post by Eboracum)
What would you suggest are the great benefits of immigration to the UK?
Well immigration helped fill skills shortages in the early 2000s which was good.

Personally, I like the diversity and different cultures. Some of my best friends are immigrants, so I guess to me that is a massive benefit.

I think this applies on a national level - though there people tend to focus on the economic benefits.

Posted from TSR Mobile
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Tamora
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#1073
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#1073
(Original post by InnerTemple)
Well immigration helped fill skills shortages in the early 2000s which was good.

Personally, I like the diversity and different cultures. Some of my best friends are immigrants, so I guess to me that is a massive benefit.

I think this applies on a national level - though there people tend to focus on the economic benefits.

Posted from TSR Mobile

I'm glad you like diversity and different cultures. We will have that without more mass immigration anyway.

The economic benefits of mass immigration are in no way proven, however much mass immigration supporters might like to pretend they are.
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geokinkladze
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#1074
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(Original post by DIN-NARYU-FARORE)
why do you presume the parties are sexist?
I don't presume they are sexist, I take them by their words and actions.

The Labour party has a policy of disqualifying men on the basis of their gender. This is discrimination on the grounds of sex. It is often referred to as "positive discrimination". The second word in that phrase is paramount.

The reason that they are allowed to do it is that the law allows a specific exception for political parties. It is allowed on the basis of increasing representation amongst women in parliament. It is a system of quotas (something you said you were not in favour of)

Either way the party does not consider applicants from men, only women. Nothing to do with their qualifications, just their gender. You deny it is on the basis of their genetalia.. it is entirely on this basis.
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The Mighty Mitch
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#1075
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#1075
Is this not the party that thinks the floods in South England was caused by two guys doing it?
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geokinkladze
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#1076
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#1076
(Original post by The Mighty Mitch)
Is this not the party that thinks the floods in South England was caused by two guys doing it?
No. Do you also believe the labour party thinks that Putin is being advised by aliens?
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chocolate hottie
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#1077
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(Original post by InnerTemple)
Anything other than immigration?

Because we know that the evidence is rather sketchy at best when it comes to saying that immigrants have been a strain on things like welfare, housing and the NHS.

We also know that immigration has brought great benefits to the UK.

So what else will UKIP offer poor, downtrodden people?
Immigration is the big thing. That is what they want, that is what we will give them eventually.

We will also help to restore their pride, in themselves, and in this country. Something that people on the left, who hate Britain and British people and prioritise anyone born outside these shores can't understand.

Why do you hate this country so much that you want uncontrolled, unlimited immigration?
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chocolate hottie
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#1078
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#1078
(Original post by Smonnie)
I don't know how forecasting for school places is done.
No need to shout, there isn't any serious forecasting. No-one knows, that was, huh, my point?
(Original post by Smonnie)
1) I am saying that politicians focus on 'immigrants putting pressure on xyz' because it is popular, when actually, the elderly, the obese, smokers, drinkers and drug users put more strain on the NHS, law and order, housing etc.
I am sorry, that isn't a serious argument. Whether or not those groups put any strain on the system is irrelevant to whether immigration does, and whether that should or should not be discussed.

Accusing those who point out the problems of immigration of scapegoating is an attempt to shut down the debate because it is too close to the bone.
(Original post by Smonnie)
2) Nothing. I already said I would favour that going forward - but it is difficult to do whilst part of the EU, and I think EU membership is more important.
Well you are entitled to your view but remember this conversation when the country has been changed irrevocably for the worst in forty or so years time. Don't say we didn't warn you whilst it was still not too late to take decisive action.
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Smonnie
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#1079
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#1079
(Original post by chocolate hottie)
No need to shout, there isn't any serious forecasting. No-one knows, that was, huh, my point?
I've said the same thing to some other idiot three times, and then going down exactly the same roads.

(Original post by chocolate hottie)
I am sorry, that isn't a serious argument. Whether or not those groups put any strain on the system is irrelevant to whether immigration does, and whether that should or should not be discussed.
Don't feel sorry for me - you are wrong.

UKIP are shifting the focus far too heavily on to immigration when the spotlight should be on the adequate provision of public services. Discuss away - I'm not one for telling people what they can or cannot say - but what I am saying is that if you wish to be taken seriously when commenting on British politics, I would suggest that immigration should not be in your top three concerns - not behind, for example, the economy, healthcare, law and order, national security...

(Original post by chocolate hottie)
Accusing those who point out the problems of immigration of scapegoating is an attempt to shut down the debate because it is too close to the bone.
Well you are entitled to your view but remember this conversation when the country has been changed irrevocably for the worst in forty or so years time. Don't say we didn't warn you whilst it was still not too late to take decisive action.
I don't wish to shut down the debate. I just don't feel that immigration is anywhere near the most important issue for this election, and unfortunately, UKIP and the like are taking up the BNP mantle of drawing a disproportionate amount of attention to the issue.

As I have already expressed numerous times, I do feel that we should look towards a more selective immigration, but not at the expense of EU membership.

Incidentally, I feel that immigration from outside of the EU is more important - but probably significantly less numerous.
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garfeeled
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#1080
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#1080
I disagree with the party but believe their existance is a good thing. It has opened uo debate on issues that weren't talked about as much and has demonstrated that other parties can be relevant to the election.

But I wo t be voting for them.
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