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The European/World Football Thread II watch

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    (Original post by Kevmeister)
    Sneijder edges it for me because he was, clearly, more influential throughout the season, for club and country.

    The list is dubious, though. Why did Gyan and Ronaldo make the list? Why didn't Rooney make the list? [He had an astonishing season]

    Maicon should get GOTY.
    I agree that Gyan shouldn't be on the list, but Ronaldo had a brilliant goal scoring season.
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    Klose's inclusion confuses me tbh. Eto'o has scored more goals in 2 months, than Klose, who has less from last season.
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    Gyan is on the list?!
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    (Original post by Stu Laverty)
    There is zero way that Gyan should have been included in this list. I don't even recall him having that good a World Cup, outside of scoring some penalties. Not when the likes of Valdez, Milito, Cole, Lampard, etc, were all left out. Having a good World Cup should be considered, but so should club form and while none of those 4 had a good World Cup (or in some cases, a World Cup at all), it is scandelous to say that Europe's best domestic goalkeeper; the man that was most instrumental to winning the Champions League this year; and the two best (apart from Drogba) players at Chelsea (who won a domestic double) are excluded because of a poor tournament.

    C.Ronaldo is proof of someone who had a good season (albeit hampered by injuries) but a rubbish World Cup, and I'd argue that Lampard, Cole and Milito all had a better club season than him last year (bearing in mind the success at their respective clubs as well).
    Let me start by saying I agree Milito should have been there instead of Gyan. However Gyan had a very good world cup. He was man of the match in two of Ghana's five games and scored 2 winners and an equaliser. Is there anyone not on the list who had a better World Cup?

    Valdez is a ludicrous claim. Casillas and Cesar are head and shoulders above him and it is no surprise to find them, rather than Valdez, on the list.
    Cole is an interesting claim but perhaps not so surprising as defenders find it notoriously difficult to do well in these sorts of awards.
    Lampard is a poor shout. Lampard failed to turn up in the Champions League or the World Cup. Every other player on the list performed in one or both.

    As for Ronaldo, his goal record does the talking for him. Score that many goals for a team that wins nothing and you probably deserve to be on the list.
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    (Original post by Phonicsdude)
    Let me start by saying I agree Milito should have been there instead of Gyan. However Gyan had a very good world cup. He was man of the match in two of Ghana's five games and scored 2 winners and an equaliser. Is there anyone not on the list who had a better World Cup?
    Robert Vittek? A player unheard of scored more goals than Gyan.

    Or Maybe Luis Suarez... :holmes:

    Valdez is a ludicrous claim. Casillas and Cesar are head and shoulders above him and it is no surprise to find them, rather than Valdez, on the list.
    Cole is an interesting claim but perhaps not so surprising as defenders find it notoriously difficult to do well in these sorts of awards.
    Lampard is a poor shout. Lampard failed to turn up in the Champions League or the World Cup. Every other player on the list performed in one or both.

    As for Ronaldo, his goal record does the talking for him. Score that many goals for a team that wins nothing and you probably deserve to be on the list.
    Valdes is pure substance tbh. Many people in Spain did go as far as to say that Valdes should be Spain's no. 1. Valdes as a goalkeeper is easily on par with Cesar and Casillas.

    Not really. Cole was probably one England's better players in WC. Who would you have nominated - Dani Alves or Cole?
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    (Original post by Kevmeister)
    Ronaldo had a crap world cup too. Rooney scored 34 goals last season, and was Utd's star player, and one of the main reasons they pushed Chelsea so close. Gyan only had a good World Cup..... so your points don't seem to be very valid. Rooney can't be nominated due to having a crap World Cup, but Ronaldo can because of his season with Real? Gyan can be nominated because he had a good world cup but an average season?

    Also, I'm guessing that the nominations were made before this season got under way.... if it's truly on a yearly basis and not seasons then this wouldn't be announced now, would it? It's based on seasons and everyone knows it, but yes, the world cup does unduly colour, which is probably why Xavi stands a chance of winning ahead of Sneijder.
    Rooney has played well for 2 and a half months this year. You can argue all you like but consistency tells its own tale. Gyan stood out in the World Cup and Ronaldo has had a fantastic year. Since the start of last season Rooney has 27 in 38 in the league (35 in 51 total). Ronaldo has 35 in 37 (43 in 47 total). You don't need me to do the maths for you. Ronaldo has a better scoring record and a more consistent one. That is why he is there. But again, the award is for the year no matter how hard you try to coat it. Just as PFA player of the year awards come before the end of the season, so this comes before the end of the year.

    In the absence of playing consistently well or an outstanding World Cup you need to have been exceptional for a long while.
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    (Original post by Phonicsdude)
    Let me start by saying I agree Milito should have been there instead of Gyan. However Gyan had a very good world cup. He was man of the match in two of Ghana's five games and scored 2 winners and an equaliser. Is there anyone not on the list who had a better World Cup?

    Valdez is a ludicrous claim. Casillas and Cesar are head and shoulders above him and it is no surprise to find them, rather than Valdez, on the list.
    Cole is an interesting claim but perhaps not so surprising as defenders find it notoriously difficult to do well in these sorts of awards.
    Lampard is a poor shout. Lampard failed to turn up in the Champions League or the World Cup. Every other player on the list performed in one or both.

    As for Ronaldo, his goal record does the talking for him. Score that many goals for a team that wins nothing and you probably deserve to be on the list.
    Players who had a better world cup not on the list, I'd probably say: Pique (part of an excellent Spanish defence); Khedeira (overshadowed by Schweinsteiger and Ozil but still an excellent and integral part of the German midfield); I seem to remember Stekelenburg being the best keeper at the tournament. I'd say all three of them you could make a claim for.

    Valdez may not be as good as Casillas or Cesar, but across the entire season he was better than Casillas and probably better than Cesar as well.

    I will give you the fact that defenders find it hard to get on the list.

    Drogba had neither a good World Cup and I don't recall him being that good in the Champions League. However, like Lampard, he was one of the best players for the best team in England, which is one of the strongest leagues in the world and he was tremendous, especially in the second half of the season.

    I know why Gyan and Klose, etc, are on the list, but I don't agree with the reasoning behind it. Do you think Klose and Gyan were anywhere near as good last season as Lampard, for example?

    I think that how a player performs in the World Cup is important, don't get me wrong. It's the sort of thing that will stop Messi from winning it ahead of Sneijder or Xavi, for example. But I would say that an excellent club season shows a lot more consistency and is a better judge for who is the best player of the year.
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    (Original post by S-man10)
    Robert Vittek? A player unheard of scored more goals than Gyan.

    Or Maybe Luis Suarez... :holmes:



    Valdes is pure substance tbh. Many people in Spain did go as far as to say that Valdes should be Spain's no. 1. Valdes as a goalkeeper is easily on par with Cesar and Casillas.

    Not really. Cole was probably one England's better players in WC. Who would you have nominated - Dani Alves or Cole?
    If you think Vittek is more worthy, fair dos. I think Milito is.

    And what is your 'not really' in response to bro? I said Cole was an interesting claim. Reread maybe?
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    (Original post by Stu Laverty)
    Players who had a better world cup not on the list, I'd probably say: Pique (part of an excellent Spanish defence); Khedeira (overshadowed by Schweinsteiger and Ozil but still an excellent and integral part of the German midfield); I seem to remember Stekelenburg being the best keeper at the tournament. I'd say all three of them you could make a claim for.

    Valdez may not be as good as Casillas or Cesar, but across the entire season he was better than Casillas and probably better than Cesar as well.

    I will give you the fact that defenders find it hard to get on the list.

    Drogba had neither a good World Cup and I don't recall him being that good in the Champions League. However, like Lampard, he was one of the best players for the best team in England, which is one of the strongest leagues in the world and he was tremendous, especially in the second half of the season.

    I know why Gyan and Klose, etc, are on the list, but I don't agree with the reasoning behind it. Do you think Klose and Gyan were anywhere near as good last season as Lampard, for example?

    I think that how a player performs in the World Cup is important, don't get me wrong. It's the sort of thing that will stop Messi from winning it ahead of Sneijder or Xavi, for example. But I would say that an excellent club season shows a lot more consistency and is a better judge for who is the best player of the year.
    Yeh there are some good points here. I disagree with you and S-man about Valdes. Frankly he plays for Barcelona. He is a very good goalkeeper but isn't tested in the same way Reina, Casillas and Cesar were. The first two have shoddy defences in front of them and Cesar made many excellent saves on the way to a treble. Are you really saying it's a surprise he's not on the list?

    I do however see your point about Gyan and Klose. They had average seasons (worse in Klose's case) but exceptional world cups. In an award which is based on global reception it is no wonder a good World Cup has an overly strong emphasis over an individual league. Would I pick Lampard instead of those two? Yes. But I'd pick others over Lampard and Drogba. I'd have Lucio (what a travesty that he wasn't picked), Pique, Milito and Tevez in there sooner.
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    (Original post by Phonicsdude)
    If you think Vittek is more worthy, fair dos. I think Milito is.

    And what is your 'not really' in response to bro? I said Cole was an interesting claim. Reread maybe?
    I did read. It is fair enough that defenders are hard to include. But what I mean't was, when you include defenders, it would better to include the right ones. Which is why I asked, who would you pick between Alves and Cole.
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    (Original post by Phonicsdude)

    In the absence of playing consistently well or an outstanding World Cup you need to have been exceptional for a long while.
    Rooney has been consistently excellent for years, it's only because we had Ronaldo that he didn't get more plaudits.

    And again, it's patently clear that it's based on the 09/10 season, and that the first two months of this season do not come into the equation.
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    (Original post by S-man10)
    I did read. It is fair enough that defenders are hard to include. But what I meant't was, when you include defenders, it would better to include the right ones. Which is why I asked, who would you pick between Alves and Cole.
    Interesting question. To my mind Alves hasn't played as a defender since at least May, possibly longer. In the world cup he played in midfield. Now he plays something closer to the wingback role in the 3-5-2. This is borne out by graphics of his average position. This role is in response to the parking of buses that Barcelona face in nearly every game.

    Cole is asked to be more cautious than Alves, though he too is a lovely player to watch. I don't think there is a better fullback when it comes to defending than Cole. He is certainly more positionally aware than Alves and not too shabby going forward I agree that along with James, he was the only England player to do himself justice at the World Cup.

    I don't think it's the most interesting question about the list. Cole or Alves? Whichever. They are both terrific players.
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    (Original post by Kevmeister)
    Rooney has been consistently excellent for years, it's only because we had Ronaldo that he didn't get more plaudits.

    And again, it's patently clear that it's based on the 09/10 season, and that the first two months of this season do not come into the equation.
    Probably my last response to you as you keep asserting the same point about the methodology without anything to back it up.

    in any case, whether it's based on 09/10 or 2010, Ronaldo has a better record. Rooney is a fantastic player at his peak. Truly awesome. Noone can take that away from him. The doey eyes he received from the world's top managers at the prospect of him becoming available is testament to that. But this isn't "who has had the best career to date?" but rather who has played better over a particular timeframe.

    As an aside, totally irrelevant to the above: It might interest you to know that Mark Drabwell, head coach educator for the London FA, a man who has worked with Ferguson, says he believes Rooney will never reach the heights he already has. Rooney was pushed from the age of 14 to play not one but two years ahead of his age group at international level. Playing such high profile competitive games from such a young age, going forward to playing 40 games a season aged 18 is bound to take its toll on a player.

    The argument is compelling. Rooney isn't finished. Not at all. But when you consider that at this stage in his career, Scholes - a player who is one of the best midfielders in the country - was 28, the importance of shielding a player from a young age becomes clear. This is especially true of a player like Rooney for whom physicality plays an important part of his game.
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    :rofl2:

    Diego Maradona: I Am Glad That Paul The Psychic Octopus Is Dead
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    (Original post by S-man10)
    :rofl2:

    Diego Maradona: I Am Glad That Paul The Psychic Octopus Is Dead
    :rofl: How horrible is that? Poor Paul.
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    http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...-dies-football
    His final prediction was that England would win the right to host the World Cup in 2018

    :awesome:
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    Good article here. Its a rant on the exclusion of Diego Milito.
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    (Original post by S-man10)
    Good article here. Its a rant on the exclusion of Diego Milito.
    One cannot claim to have found a good article and then provide a link to Goal.com.

    One cannot claim to have found a rant and provide only 4 paragraphs.

    One is a moron.

    Must try harder :sadnod:
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    (Original post by Louis1991)
    One cannot claim to have found a good article and then provide a link to Goal.com.

    One cannot claim to have found a rant and provide only 4 paragraphs.

    One is a moron.

    Must try harder :sadnod:
    Link corrected.
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    (Original post by Phonicsdude)
    Probably my last response to you as you keep asserting the same point about the methodology without anything to back it up.

    in any case, whether it's based on 09/10 or 2010, Ronaldo has a better record. Rooney is a fantastic player at his peak. Truly awesome. Noone can take that away from him. The doey eyes he received from the world's top managers at the prospect of him becoming available is testament to that. But this isn't "who has had the best career to date?" but rather who has played better over a particular timeframe.

    As an aside, totally irrelevant to the above: It might interest you to know that Mark Drabwell, head coach educator for the London FA, a man who has worked with Ferguson, says he believes Rooney will never reach the heights he already has. Rooney was pushed from the age of 14 to play not one but two years ahead of his age group at international level. Playing such high profile competitive games from such a young age, going forward to playing 40 games a season aged 18 is bound to take its toll on a player.

    The argument is compelling. Rooney isn't finished. Not at all. But when you consider that at this stage in his career, Scholes - a player who is one of the best midfielders in the country - was 28, the importance of shielding a player from a young age becomes clear. This is especially true of a player like Rooney for whom physicality plays an important part of his game.
    Agreed.

    Although Rooney had a brilliant season last year, there were players that simply outperformed him. Milito springs to mind. He dragged Inter to the CL final and won it for them, and isnt on the list. Oh dear. :facepalm2:

    I would have liked to have seen Thomas Mueller on the list. Had a fantastic first full season and world cup. Still only 20/21 aswell.

    I personally think that it will go:

    1. Messi
    2. Sneijder
    3. Xavi
 
 
 
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