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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    U jelly?
    Well, I'm lucky in that I went to a grammar school, which was about £30 per year, but I just find it astonishing how that cost can be justified. Do these places offer a difference in education equitable to 15k per year?

    I resent areas where money acts as a barrier, and education is a classic example, but ultimately parents should be allowed to send them to the best schools, difference is I would add on a tax to lower the cost of mainstream education, but still allow top schools to operate. I doubt a scholarship scheme could work as UKIP advocate.

    If I earn enough I don't mind paying to send my children to a better school, but I would want to stay away from the Etons and the Harrows.
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    It wasn't supposed to be patronising or condescending, it was a genuine question.
    Oh, I'm so sorry, I struggle to read people sometimes.
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    I plan to work hard to be able to afford to send my children to a top school, or hope my parents will stick to their word about fees, but there is nothing wrong with feeling entitled to send children to an independent school. Every parent is entitled to send their children to an independent school if their children are smart enough, are capable enough, and the money is there to pay the school fees.
    But what if the child isn't smart enough? Should the richer family be allowed to occupy a space with a dumber child while a smarter child with no money loses out?
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Seems to be what you're suggesting given you are saying that need is not want in response to me saying that the reason there is not saving in my case is want not need.
    I didn't understand what you meant, because the picture outlined one of my key points, which is that not everyone can afford to save, especially when on a ZHC, unable to plan and long term financing is more expensive. If you honestly think everyone can simply "save" you're wrong.

    I've supported a voucher system before, whereby instead of money they were trading in vouchers (although, that would have to be regulated to prevent inflation I guess) which couldn't be spent on cigs and alcohol. I like the sound of Friedman's negative income tax.

    The point of work is pretty straightforward, a £60 pair of shoes will last longer that 6 £10 pairs, yet if you can't afford it, you have to buy the more expensive 10+ pairs.
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    Well, I'm lucky in that I went to a grammar school, which was about £30 per year, but I just find it astonishing how that cost can be justified. Do these places offer a difference in education equitable to 15k per year?

    I resent areas where money acts as a barrier, and education is a classic example, but ultimately parents should be allowed to send them to the best schools, difference is I would add on a tax to lower the cost of mainstream education, but still allow top schools to operate. I doubt a scholarship scheme could work as UKIP advocate.

    If I earn enough I don't mind paying to send my children to a better school, but I would want to stay away from the Etons and the Harrows.
    15k a year and the rest... Mine managed to justify ~33k a year!! Makes uni seem positively cheap.
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    But what if the child isn't smart enough? Should the richer family be allowed to occupy a space with a dumber child while a smarter child with no money loses out?
    No offence to the guy, but pretty much what someone at my school was doing... He was only there because of family ties and money... He wouldn't have got in if it were solely down to how clever he was
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    But what if the child isn't smart enough? Should the richer family be allowed to occupy a space with a dumber child while a smarter child with no money loses out?
    Many independent schools have entrance exams, mine certainly did.

    Also, independent schools promote a good environment for teaching with smaller classes and a culture of success and hard work, but that does not necessarily mean the child will thrive.

    Moreover, this is accounted for when students apply to university, where the uni will take into account the quality of school you went to when evaluating your performance.

    There is very little which could be done to make the system more equitable than it already is.
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    (Original post by mobbsy91)
    No offence to the guy, but pretty much what someone at my school was doing... He was only there because of family ties and money... He wouldn't have got in if it were solely down to how clever he was
    Exactly my point, and exactly why it should cost more. At least people acknowledge that as a flaw we have to tolerate.
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    (Original post by tengentoppa)
    Many independent schools have entrance exams, mine certainly did.

    Also, independent schools promote a good environment for teaching with smaller classes and a culture of success and hard work, but that does not necessarily mean the child will thrive.

    Moreover, this is accounted for when students apply to university, where the uni will take into account the quality of school you went to when evaluating your performance.

    There is very little which could be done to make the system more equitable than it already is.
    Entrance exams are pretty criticised for not being sensitive/specific (doesn't seem like it reflects students abilities accurately)

    And unis don't actually take previous school into account do they?
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    Exactly my point, and exactly why it should cost more. At least people acknowledge that as a flaw we have to tolerate.
    Yeh, it's absolutely a flaw... Not sure how to fix it except for all schools, private or not, having to give places to the top x results from the entrance exams...

    Costing more wouldn't change it - say it cost a lot more, I wouldn't have been able to go, but (even if I do say so myself) I'm a lot cleverer than the other guy, who would still be able to pay to go...
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    (Original post by mobbsy91)
    15k a year and the rest... Mine managed to justify ~33k a year!! Makes uni seem positively cheap.
    What on earth can a school do to justify that cost? Unless it's a tax (in which case I agree) but that's extortionate.
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    (Original post by hazzer1998)
    This has to be one of the most derogatory but funny jokes I've heard

    Q: How many men does it take to open a beer?
    A: None, it should be opened when your girlfriend brings it to you.
    Why can't orphans play baseball?

    They don't know where home is.
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    But what if the child isn't smart enough? Should the richer family be allowed to occupy a space with a dumber child while a smarter child with no money loses out?
    If the wealthy family has money for the school fees it is fine because the child will do better at an independent school than at a state school of lower quality. I do not see anything wrong with parents using their social capital, or financial wealth, to better the life prospects for their children, nor is there anything wrong with networking to boost chances of success. But I would avoid an independent school where entrance exams are not sat, a preparatory school before starting an elite school is the plan for any children I have.
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    What on earth can a school do to justify that cost? Unless it's a tax (in which case I agree) but that's extortionate.
    Not a tax... Most private schools are charities so tax exempt anyway...

    And to be fair, I'll give credit to having to pay for boarding, but these schools do cost a lot to run... Massive buildings, massive overheads....
    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    If the richer family has money it is fine because the child will do better than if the child was in a state school of lower quality. I do not see anything wrong with parents using their social capital, or financial wealth, to better the life prospects for their children, nor is there anything wrong with networking to boost chances of success.
    Actually yeh... Don't know what I'm talking about above... I definitely agree with this. You shouldn't stop people going to private school if they're not as clever. Ignore my above post, don't know what I was saying.
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    (Original post by jamestg)
    Why can't orphans play baseball?

    They don't know where home is.
    Smashed that into the net
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    (Original post by jamestg)
    Why can't orphans play baseball?

    They don't know where home is.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfVxGAFUXSE
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    Entrance exams are pretty criticised for not being sensitive/specific (doesn't seem like it reflects students abilities accurately)

    And unis don't actually take previous school into account do they?
    Maths, English, verbal and non-verbal reasoning tests. It's about as good an indicator as you can get for kids of that age.

    Some unis definitely do take the quality of the school and how deprived the area is into account.
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    I didn't understand what you meant, because the picture outlined one of my key points, which is that not everyone can afford to save, especially when on a ZHC, unable to plan and long term financing is more expensive. If you honestly think everyone can simply "save" you're wrong.

    I've supported a voucher system before, whereby instead of money they were trading in vouchers (although, that would have to be regulated to prevent inflation I guess) which couldn't be spent on cigs and alcohol. I like the sound of Friedman's negative income tax.

    The point of work is pretty straightforward, a £60 pair of shoes will last longer that 6 £10 pairs, yet if you can't afford it, you have to buy the more expensive 10+ pairs.
    Except the image declared that the poor cannot save, something that is false in a great many instances. As I said, I am effectively on the income of the bottom decile, not actually but effectively, and as I said, the only reason I am spending more than that income is because I choose to, there is no needing to over spend, there isn't even need to spend all of it, it is a choice that I decided to make. There are also plenty of organisations that have looked into such things, the BBC a few years back had a reporter living on £50 a week (plus rent), that £50 covered food, utilities, transport, phone.
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    (Original post by mobbsy91)
    Not a tax... Most private schools are charities so tax exempt anyway...

    And to be fair, I'll give credit to having to pay for boarding, but these schools do cost a lot to run... Massive buildings, massive overheads....


    Actually yeh... Don't know what I'm talking about above... I definitely agree with this. You shouldn't stop people going to private school if they're not as clever. Ignore my above post, don't know what I was saying.
    I agree with your comments on the need for entrance exams, the best schools in the country use exams to select their pupils. The left-wing like to portray independent schools as being full of less intelligent wealthy children whose parents buy them qualifications, but the reality is the children in independent schools are as capable as the best children in state schools. While the best children in state schools could keep up in the best independent schools, there is no shortage of very intelligent children from wealthy backgrounds to populate independent schools.

    I do not care if there are few scholarships for poorer children to attend top independent schools; if the independent sector outperforms the state sector on every valuable measure; nor do I care if independent-schooled students dominate top universities in the country, which is caused by independently-school children being more intelligent on average, more worldly, better mannered, better spoken, more classy, and more culturally rounded than children from state schools.
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    (Original post by tengentoppa)
    Maths, English, verbal and non-verbal reasoning tests. It's about as good an indicator as you can get for kids of that age.

    Some unis definitely do take the quality of the school and how deprived the area is into account.
    Exams generally favour boys, girls tend to better in coursework. While the test is accurate as can be, sometimes people just mess up on the day, it should be based on a yearly summary + exams, too much emphasis on the transfer tests.
 
 
 
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