The Classics Society Mk II Watch

placenta medicae talpae
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#1141
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#1141
(Original post by Aemiliana)
I should really get off here and read up on the Roman Empire, actually. Or Catholicism in 17th century Japan. Whichever. But for this thread, it'll be the empire.
Incidentally, did you find much on this?
I'm trying to drag up all of the deep and dark past (and present and future) of the Catholic "Church", you see =)

I have an old thing from them (great^n-grandmother's, where n is a large positive integer) written in Latin.
But I imagine that she couldn't read Latin (though I don't know) and so it probably just served as an object of fascination.
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Aemiliana
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#1142
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#1142
Sorry, I can't quote but yes, there is a fair bit seeing as they got kicked out.

---


No one seems to believe that I really ****ing hate doing my degree right now. I bloody hate modern history and haven't had a single 'Ah, so that's why...' moment so far this year. I just don't give a damn :nothing:
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Sappho
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#1143
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#1143
Wow, this was our last day of teaching which means that I officially survived this absolutely murderous week! With essays that I couldn't spend enough time on because the day has just 24 hours and a horrific lack of sleep combined with caffeine poisoning. However, I think I learned quite a few things. Always good. How are things going for you guys?
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The Lyceum
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#1144
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#1144
Well I got mega ***** slapped so that was kind of cool.
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Nox Aeterna
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#1145
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#1145
Hi, just need some quick help, for a very embarrassing point.

Is Britannia a first declension noun that is female? I ask only as in suetonius, Sheppard Frere says, he writes that a certain individual was regarded as Britannorum Rex , and from what I could find, should it not be Britanniarum Rex? I'm quite sure my ignorance of something in advanced Latin is stopping me from understanding this, so any help would be appreciated!
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Cupid93
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#1146
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#1146
(Original post by Nox Aeterna)
Hi, just need some quick help, for a very embarrassing point.

Is Britannia a first declension noun that is female? I ask only as in suetonius, Sheppard Frere says, he writes that a certain individual was regarded as Britannorum Rex , and from what I could find, should it not be Britanniarum Rex? I'm quite sure my ignorance of something in advanced Latin is stopping me from understanding this, so any help would be appreciated!
Britannorum will be from Britanni -orum, m. pl. meaning 'the Britons'.

Of interest aswell, Britannicus Rex could be used for a native British King, and my dictionary informs me that Brittanicus used in the masculine singular can mean "a title commemorating successes in Britain, given to various Romans in imperial times". Well there you go, I didn't know that before!
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medbh4805
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#1147
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#1147
(Original post by Nox Aeterna)
Hi, just need some quick help, for a very embarrassing point.

Is Britannia a first declension noun that is female? I ask only as in suetonius, Sheppard Frere says, he writes that a certain individual was regarded as Britannorum Rex , and from what I could find, should it not be Britanniarum Rex? I'm quite sure my ignorance of something in advanced Latin is stopping me from understanding this, so any help would be appreciated!
Britannia = Britain 1st dec fem sing
Britanni = Britons 2nd dec masc plural

Similar to Roma/Romani. They're just different words :yes:
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medbh4805
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#1148
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#1148
(Original post by Cupid93)
Britannorum will be from Britanni -orum, m. pl. meaning 'the Britons'.

Of interest aswell, Britannicus Rex could be used for a native British King, and my dictionary informs me that Brittanicus used in the masculine singular can mean "a title commemorating successes in Britain, given to various Romans in imperial times". Well there you go, I didn't know that before!
Wasn't there a chap murdered by Nero called Britannicus? :beard:
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The Lyceum
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#1149
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#1149
(Original post by medbh4805)
Wasn't there a chap murdered by Nero called Britannicus? :beard:
Well the C much like the SC sounding for incipient verbs had a particular meaning (going back to some proto-Latin stems, long story) essentially think of it as being...well condescending is almost the best term:

Germanus = Person of Germany,
Germanicus = victor over the Germans, its analogical to other such formations like Sarmaticus (One Emperor, over proud, deemed himself Sarmaticus Sarmaticus because he'd beaten them twice ) and so on.

So if one was Britannicus one had defeated the various tribes in Britain. Claudius claimed the title for his wars there and passed it onto his son, who yes, was killed by Nero.

(Original post by Cupid93)
Britannorum will be from Britanni -orum, m. pl. meaning 'the Britons'.

Of interest aswell, Britannicus Rex could be used for a native British King, and my dictionary informs me that Brittanicus used in the masculine singular can mean "a title commemorating successes in Britain, given to various Romans in imperial times". Well there you go, I didn't know that before!
Where are you getting Britannicus Rex for a native King from? Citation please?
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toronto353
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#1150
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#1150
(Original post by Cupid93)
Britannorum will be from Britanni -orum, m. pl. meaning 'the Britons'.

Of interest aswell, Britannicus Rex could be used for a native British King, and my dictionary informs me that Brittanicus used in the masculine singular can mean "a title commemorating successes in Britain, given to various Romans in imperial times". Well there you go, I didn't know that before!
I doubt that such a term was used though. You tend to see rex Britannorum in texts. My feeling is that (and I believe this was the case, but someone correct me if I'm wrong) since Britain didn't have one king, but was divided into kingdoms and tribes, the Romans would not have used the adjective with the noun rex since it would have perhaps implied that the king ruled over all of Britain (the territory) rather than of the people which is why rex Britannorum was probably used. That said I'm not an expert of that period of history so this is only my conjecture.

(Original post by The Lyceum)
Where are you getting Britannicus Rex for a native King from? Citation please?
I'm assuming that he is assuming that one could use the adjective Britannicus with the noun rex to form 'British King' rather than it being the name of a king per se.
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The Lyceum
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#1151
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#1151
(Original post by toronto353)
I doubt that such a term was used though. You tend to see rex Britannorum in texts. My feeling is that (and I believe this was the case, but someone correct me if I'm wrong) since Britain didn't have one king, but was divided into kingdoms and tribes, the Romans would not have used the adjective with the noun rex since it would have perhaps implied that the king ruled over all of Britain (the territory) rather than of the people which is why rex Britannorum was probably used. That said I'm not an expert of that period of history so this is only my conjecture.



I'm assuming that he is assuming that one could use the adjective Britannicus with the noun rex to form 'British King' rather than it being the name of a king per se.
Well, I'm asking because the usage he gave made no sense on several grounds so if he could provide a valid citation it would be rather interesting.

EDIT: Also yes, there would not quite have been a unified concept of Britain (Prydein) at the name in any real political sense. Hence references to separate tribes like Iceni, Brigi etc.
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toronto353
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#1152
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#1152
(Original post by The Lyceum)
Well, I'm asking because the usage he gave made no sense on several grounds so if he could provide a valid citation it would be rather interesting.
I can't think of a usage offhand really, but like you say it would be rather interesting. That said, I'm wondering how it was used as an adjective because I can't think of any usages of such an adjective.
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The Lyceum
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#1153
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#1153
(Original post by toronto353)
I can't think of a usage offhand really, but like you say it would be rather interesting. That said, I'm wondering how it was used as an adjective because I can't think of any usages of such an adjective.
Same, especially because to the Roman ear the sound would be totally reminiscent of those conquering appellations in many cases, and certain diminutive forms. As you say though this is not really my period either.
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Nox Aeterna
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#1154
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#1154
Thanks for the speedy reply guys!

The term I mentioned was recorded by Suetonius, who describes Tasciovanus as such. You are right that Britain was never united at the time, though at the period prior to the conquest by Claudius, Tasciovcanus was the most powerful king/warlord/tribal chieftain at the time and it became common for many British tribal leaders to refer to themselves as Rex as inscribed on their coinage, when they were recognized by Rome or had some form a relationship with the Empire and indicated an influx of Roman culture or Roman craftsmen into the area.

As far as I am aware, no native leader was referred to as Rex Britannicus and if so this is something I would like to see. This is not really my period either even though I am doing an entire module on this. LOL. It's a shame as the study of the period is rather under-developed and there is so much more that could happen, though as my Latin seminar tutor professed recently "it's no Egypt". Anyway, it was Suetonius who described Tasciovanus as King of the Britains, though many other "kings" called themselves Rex

Medbh4805-Thanks for the help!
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The Lyceum
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#1155
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#1155
I'd hardly say Roman Britain is understudied, it receives a ridiculous amount of attention for what it is: the ******** of the Empire.
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Nox Aeterna
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#1156
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#1156
(Original post by The Lyceum)
I'd hardly say Roman Britain is understudied, it receives a ridiculous amount of attention for what it is: the ******** of the Empire.
HAHA!!

I do agree with you, in a sense, as to the attention the province has received in terms of literature published on it. However, my unpolished perspective is in regards to the excavations that are done on Roman sites in Britain, of which there are quite a few going on at the moment, there really isn't anything significant that advances the field, and most literature published tends to be a coherent grouping of already existing information and really doesn't shed any new light on the province. In my opinion it's a mismatched affair as the study of the province does not really come under ancient history as there is little in the way of primary sources yet Britain under Rome is seen by many archaeologists as outside of the scope of conventional archaeology. Indeed, I myself have excavated with a well-known archaeologist who shall remain unnamed who had a habit of dispensing of Roman pottery he found in a crude manner. This is in a sense odd because it is upon archaeology that we must rely upon for the history of the province during the Roman occupation. Most Classical archaeologists tend to gravitate to the Mediterranean basin too.
Perhaps I am being unnecessarily critical because of the perspective of conventional archaeology, but that is what I think.
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The Lyceum
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#1157
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#1157
(Original post by Nox Aeterna)
HAHA!!

I do agree with you, in a sense, as to the attention the province has received in terms of literature published on it. However, my unpolished perspective is in regards to the excavations that are done on Roman sites in Britain, of which there are quite a few going on at the moment, there really isn't anything significant that advances the field, and most literature published tends to be a coherent grouping of already existing information and really doesn't shed any new light on the province. In my opinion it's a mismatched affair as the study of the province does not really come under ancient history as there is little in the way of primary sources yet Britain under Rome is seen by many archaeologists as outside of the scope of conventional archaeology. Indeed, I myself have excavated with a well-known archaeologist who shall remain unnamed who had a habit of dispensing of Roman pottery he found in a crude manner. This is in a sense odd because it is upon archaeology that we must rely upon for the history of the province during the Roman occupation. Most Classical archaeologists tend to gravitate to the Mediterranean basin too.
Perhaps I am being unnecessarily critical because of the perspective of conventional archaeology, but that is what I think.
I don't think you're being unnecessarily critical, besides I'm the last man to throw stones for that particular sin. It does come down to quantity not equaling quantity. I'll leave off her, since I'll probably swing into rant mode...

What area do you principally work in then?
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toronto353
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#1158
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#1158
(Original post by Nox Aeterna)
Thanks for the speedy reply guys!

The term I mentioned was recorded by Suetonius, who describes Tasciovanus as such. You are right that Britain was never united at the time, though at the period prior to the conquest by Claudius, Tasciovcanus was the most powerful king/warlord/tribal chieftain at the time and it became common for many British tribal leaders to refer to themselves as Rex as inscribed on their coinage, when they were recognized by Rome or had some form a relationship with the Empire and indicated an influx of Roman culture or Roman craftsmen into the area.

As far as I am aware, no native leader was referred to as Rex Britannicus and if so this is something I would like to see. This is not really my period either even though I am doing an entire module on this. LOL. It's a shame as the study of the period is rather under-developed and there is so much more that could happen, though as my Latin seminar tutor professed recently "it's no Egypt". Anyway, it was Suetonius who described Tasciovanus as King of the Britains, though many other "kings" called themselves Rex

Medbh4805-Thanks for the help!
Could you provide me with an exact reference please in Suetonius' work?




(Original post by The Lyceum)
I don't think you're being unnecessarily critical, besides I'm the last man to throw stones for that particular sin. It does come down to quantity not equaling quantity. I'll leave off her, since I'll probably swing into rant mode...

What area do you principally work in then?
I was wondering what is your specialist area then?
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faber niger
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#1159
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#1159
Faustam Felicemque Missam Christi, omnes! :xmasgrin:

Hope you're all able to have a relaxing holiday.
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Sappho
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#1160
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#1160
(Original post by jismith1989)
Faustam Felicemque Missam Christi, omnes! :xmasgrin:

Hope you're all able to have a relaxing holiday.
Indeed. I haven't touched my Classics books for a week. Just in a little moment of weekness watched Troy yesterday. But I was strong today, I read a couple of pages in my brand new novel (the second part of The City of Dreaming Books, but before you jump up and run into the nearest book store, I don't think it has been translated into English yet ). Good times. I'm afraid I'll probably get back to Plato tomorrow, though.

I hope you're spending some nice spare time, too
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