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    (Original post by mickeydelmonte)
    TOPIC: MEDICINE

    Suppose someone who has 12a* at GCSE, how well does he have to do in the BMAT to be called for interview. I think its around a third of applicants get an interview. Could anyone tell me quantitatively what BMAT score I should get in order to be pretty safe.

    Any help is much appreciated.
    It's impossible to give a simple answer to that but this page has some potentially useful statistics. Generally speaking, it appears that your chance of getting an interview is high above 65% on the BMAT. Also, approximately 75% of students with 12 A*s at GCSE were shortlisted which in theory means you're twice as likely as the "average" candidate to be shortlisted with those GCSE grades but very obviously, it is not as simple as that. Please be cautious with drawing conclusions from that data. Just do your best!
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    (Original post by Lucilou101)
    The reason that AS grades aren't as important as GCSE's, admissions tests or interviews is because Oxford hasn't proven a link between them and doing well in their degrees, unlike Cambridge.
    It's not really a question of proof.

    Cambridge asks for AS UMS marks on its application questionnaire form.

    Oxford uses aptitude tests and does not send out a questionnaire. Oxford is therefore not in a position to use AS results in the way that Cambridge does.
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    (Original post by Pars12)
    It's not really a question of proof.

    Cambridge asks for AS UMS marks on its application questionnaire form.

    Oxford uses aptitude tests and does not send out a questionnaire. Oxford is therefore not in a position to use AS results in the way that Cambridge does.
    Out of choice. Oxford could choose to ask for AS UMS if they so wished.

    I have always been informed that one of the reasons they don't is that they have found admissions tests and GCSEs to be a better indicator of success in their degree courses.
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    (Original post by Pars12)
    It's not really a question of proof.

    Cambridge asks for AS UMS marks on its application questionnaire form.

    Oxford uses aptitude tests and does not send out a questionnaire. Oxford is therefore not in a position to use AS results in the way that Cambridge does.
    I'd like to think that Oxford has at least looked into how well GCSE / AS / A2 results correlate with degree success to know whether this is information they should be collecting. They could survey current students instead of applicants, after all.
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    (Original post by Lucilou101)
    Out of choice. Oxford could choose to ask for AS UMS if they so wished.
    At a cost. They would have to set a questionnaire like Cambridge.

    I have always been informed that one of the reasons they don't is that they have found admissions tests and GCSEs to be a better indicator of success in their degree courses.
    Yes, I agree, but that still does not mean that Oxford has not proven a link. It's just that Oxford would rather have aptitude tests (and fewer interviews) than run a questionnaire system.
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    (Original post by BJack)
    I'd like to think that Oxford has at least looked into how well GCSE / AS / A2 results correlate with degree success to know whether this is information they should be collecting. They could survey current students instead of applicants, after all.
    The question is whether they could get a better degree outcome by selecting different applicants. I'm not sure a review of current students would help. They know an awful lot about the ones they accepted. It's the ones that got away that are a bit of a mystery.
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    (Original post by BrasenoseAdm)
    Candidates applying to Brasenose for PPE and who were invited to interview last year (either with us or at another college) scored as follows (rounding up to 2 sf):

    problem solving: minimum 53, median 64, maximum 83
    critical thinking: minimum 58, median 72, maximum 83
    essay: minimum 54, median 65, maximum 72
    overall: minimum 60, median 68, maximum 76

    We think these scores are in line with the rest of Oxford. All sections count. If you are reading this, would like to read PPE, and think you can post a competitive test score ... the closing date for applications is October 15th!
    Hi! In a similar vein, do you happen to have any details on the LNAT scores of successful Law candidates?
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    (Original post by Pars12)
    At a cost. They would have to set a questionnaire like Cambridge.



    Yes, I agree, but that still does not mean that Oxford has not proven a link. It's just that Oxford would rather have aptitude tests (and fewer interviews) than run a questionnaire system.
    I would have thought a questionnaire would have cost a lot less than the current cost of organising admissions tests for nearly all subjects?

    The point is that Oxford doesn't use AS levels mechanistically when deciding who to invite to interview, for various reasons. That is all that prospective applicants need to know.
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    (Original post by Lucilou101)
    I would have thought a questionnaire would have cost a lot less than the current cost of organising admissions tests for nearly all subjects?
    No ... the set-up and changeover costs would be considerable.

    The point is that Oxford doesn't use AS levels mechanistically when deciding who to invite to interview, for various reasons. That is all that prospective applicants need to know.
    Yes, I agree ... but that wasn't the point you made.
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    (Original post by Pars12)
    No ... the set-up and changeover costs would be considerable.

    Yes, I agree ... but that wasn't the point you made.
    I'm not suggesting they changed over. But that on basic cost a questionnaire is much cheaper, Oxford could have chosen that route.

    I made the point that AS grades aren't as important because Oxford hasn't proven a link to degree success from them, and that many UK schools don't certificate AS grades. These are both reasons for why Oxford doesn't use AS grades mechanistically in their process - so yes, that was the point I made.

    Anyway, I suggest we stop taking over the 2016 applicants thread with this discussion, as it's not really leading anywhere.
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    (Original post by Sheldor)
    Hi! In a similar vein, do you happen to have any details on the LNAT scores of successful Law candidates?
    Candidates invited to interview achieved a median score of 27.5 on the Multiple Choice LNAT (min 20, max 34) and a median score of 66 on the Essay LNAT (min 58, max 70).

    As with the TSA, we think these scores are in line with the rest of the University. If you think you can achieve a result in this ball park and are predicted to achieve the standard offer of AAA (or equivalent), the UCAS application date is 15th October.
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    (Original post by Lucilou101)
    The reason that AS grades aren't as important as GCSE's, admissions tests or interviews is because Oxford hasn't proven a link between them and doing well in their degrees, unlike Cambridge. Furthermore, many UK private schools don't certificate AS grades and so none of their pupils will apply with their AS grades on their applications. AS grades are going to become even less important probably as they've been basically removed from the curriculum.

    For History - the HAT and GCSEs are the main two factors used to decide whether to invite a candidate to interview, that means that an amazing HAT score can outweigh slightly less good GCSEs, but every application is different. There is no denying that GCSEs aren't important (and I'm sure fluteflute agrees with me), but his point was that you can make up for non-stellar GCSEs through other aspects of your application. Particularly if there are extenuating circumstances, or your GCSEs show that you achieved higher than the average at the school you attended.

    Fair enough. I should have actually read through the thread before replying!
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    (Original post by fluteflute)
    Yes - applying without AS grades is not going to hurt an application even slightly. [As a sidenote, I know someone currently holding an offer for Classics who applied with AS grades of ABC!]

    Well maybe they could know through the HAT results and by interviewing you? (plus the teacher's reference)

    This is the part of your post that is a reasonably fair criticism, but I still think my original comments were fair. The role of GCSEs within applying to Oxford is mostly clouded in mystery, with Medicine being a rare example of a subject providing transparency (note Medicine is rather special and you shouldn't try to extrapolate from Medicine to other courses). History is the only other course I can think of that publicly talks about how GCSEs are used in the process. I have no clue why they don't put this on their website (it makes me a bit angry that they don't actually) but yes they say that decisions on who to interview are made based on 30% A*s at GCSE and 70% on the HAT. I understand that to mean that good GCSEs are clearly a help for History applicants, but that doesn't mean you won't be interviewed if your GCSEs aren't the best. I should repeat the caveat that this is just for history - but I've not seen reasons to believe GCSEs play a bigger role for other courses.
    Sorry - I didn't actually read through the thread before writing my post. Seems we are basically saying the same thing about GCSEs anyway, for history at least.

    The ASs, though: I know they aren't as important as other things, and I know plenty of people get offers without straight A grades, but it is surely better to apply with than without.

    That's not meant to be discouraging (as I may have sounded earlier). It's just based on what admissions advisors told me when I was considering doing the same thing. Yes, they could use other things to see if your predictions are realistic, but AS grades may still be the best indicator. Otherwise presumably evetything can be used to judge assess everything else, and I don't need to do GCSEs because interviews give a good idea of what I would have got.

    Anyway, overall I agree with you - people should not be discouraged from applying based on one 'poor' aspect of their application, as it can always be compensated for elsewhere.
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    Does anyone know what the difference is between the normal HAT and the HAT for History and Economics? Also, what is an acceptable score to be invited for an interview? Any help is greatly appreciated.
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    (Original post by Connor D)
    Does anyone know what the difference is between the normal HAT and the HAT for History and Economics? Also, what is an acceptable score to be invited for an interview? Any help is greatly appreciated.
    I believe they're the same
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    (Original post by fluteflute)
    I believe they're the same
    According to the website "The test will include a question specifically for candidates applying for History and Economics" but I can't find any more information on that. It doesn't appear on the HAT past papers as far as I can tell that are publicly available.
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    Can anyone say what the minimum MLAT score is to get into Oxford? What do average students score on the MLAT?
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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    According to the website "The test will include a question specifically for candidates applying for History and Economics" but I can't find any more information on that. It doesn't appear on the HAT past papers as far as I can tell that are publicly available.
    Ah yes, sorry. Last year the equivalent text was "Candidates applying for History and Economics are required to take two tests: the History Aptitude Test (HAT) on 5 November 2014 and a test for Economics for those who are shortlisted, which will take place during the Oxford interview period in December 2014."

    And here's the 'specimen paper' for the old test (the question on the HAT might be nothing like this, I don't know):
    http://web.archive.org/web/201409291...ent.rm?id=2315
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    (Original post by Pars12)
    The question is whether they could get a better degree outcome by selecting different applicants. I'm not sure a review of current students would help. They know an awful lot about the ones they accepted. It's the ones that got away that are a bit of a mystery.
    Yes, I know that was the question.... If you want to know how well AS results correlate with Oxford degree success, look at AS results and degree success of students at Oxford. If that shows a strong positive correlation, you can try to select applicants with really good AS results.
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    Does anyone know if there's a separate thread for the HAT (History aptitude test) or potential History applicants???
 
 
 
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