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Deadly gun attack in Paris: Global reactions & discussion watch

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    (Original post by SiminaM)
    'Prophet' was previously mentioned as a reference to Muhamad- that's what I refered to - I don't have a prophet, I have Jesus.
    Abraham was quite important. Cause of a few punch-ups over land ownership. Spoken to by angels.
    Jacob, renamed Israel by God.
    Noah - told by God to expect a weather bomb.
    Jacob - heard the voice of God.
    Jonah - Jesus said he was a prophet.
    plus scores of others. But saving the best until last:
    Moses - performed the odd miracle and given the ten commandments.
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    (Original post by matthewduncan)
    The west has a history of rewriting history to suit their own agenda.
    So you're saying 9/11 didn't happen?
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    (Original post by matthewduncan)
    I tried to meet you half way but me and you can part ways separately.
    By the way, do you still believe Ahmed Merabet is an actor?
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Says the person who claimed the dead Moslem policeman was really an actor and that this was all a cunning western plot. :rolleyes:

    Get a grip. And a new tinfoil hat.
    yeah i was wrong for that and i admit that now but you cant deny that the west rewrites history to suit them
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    (Original post by G8D)
    Christianity for the most part has modernised, changed, and become less fundamental to many people's lives. It has graduated somewhat into a cultural phenomenon rather than a ideological one. Much like Judaism for many people.

    Perhaps grown up is the wrong term. Many of the big religions have adapted as the rest of society grew up around them.
    Isn't that the case for islam tho?..

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    (Original post by matthewduncan)
    yeah i was wrong for that and i admit that now
    If you were wrong about that, what else might you be wrong about? Isn't the fact you believed that he was an actor and that it was a conspiracy a red flag, in your own mind, that perhaps you should start to reassess your own world view, your own tendency to believe things that are inherently improbable?

    but you cant deny that the west rewrites history to suit them
    For the most part, we don't have official, government issued history in the West. The study of history is carried out by independent academics subject to review by their peers.

    What history are you claiming has been rewritten?
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    (Original post by elhm1800)
    Isn't that the case for islam tho?..

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    Sure. If you consider giving the death penalty to those leaving the religion, labelling rape victims as adulterers, stoning adulterers to death, amputating the hands of thieves (I could go on) to be "grown up" or adapted to the 21st century:erm:
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    (Original post by GailQ)
    Sure. If you consider giving the death penalty to those leaving the religion, labelling rape victims as adulterers, stoning adulterers to death, amputating the hands of thieves (I could go on) to be "grown up" or adapted to the 21st century:erm:
    But isnt that exactly what islam has grown up from? No one does that unless its some sort of extremist society...

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    (Original post by elhm1800)
    But isnt that exactly what islam has grown up from? No one does that unless its some sort of extremist society...

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    No. The "that" you refer to is part of what is called Sharia law and I can assure you that many societies - entire countries in fact - still practice it stringently. Unless you are trying to imply that most of the Middle East is an extremist society?
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    (Original post by young_guns)
    This entire episode demonstrates the fundamental weakness of the Islamofascists, a spasm of violence that says everything about how they lack strength, or ideological coherence

    Their best bet is to attack soft targets, like newspapers and supermarkets, and murder civilians and target women and children; they are cowards, and their ideology is a dead end.

    Since 2001, they haven't pulled off a single spectacular attack, and no large-scale attacks in the West since 2005.

    On the other hand, we've killed over 50,000 Islamofascists since the start of the War on Terror. We are becoming stronger and better at dealing with terrorism (see all the terrorist plots foiled by the Metropolitan Police).

    Islamofascists have literally no answers to the fundamental social and economic questions of the 21st century, and like Hitler they are finding to their detriment just how formidable an opponent an aroused democracy can be
    I agree with some of that, but I don't think we can be quite so confident that the anti-'fascist' side is 'winning', given that the Jihadis now have their own country, which they didn't before and are on the edge of having several more. (Yemen and presumably Afghanistan as soon as the US packs up and leaves it to the Taliban.)

    I also don't think that 'Islamofascist' is really all that accurate. What really motivated these people? Hamza is in the mix (perhaps predictably) as are ISIS, but surely we should look at Algeria if we want to really get to the bottom of this. Like Egypt, Algeria originally had a reasonably moderate and idealistic Islamic-tinged democratic movement that was suppressed with the most appalling brutality. The cruelty directed at those who opposed the tyranny of the French-supported government of Algeria over many years is amongst the worst of any country in the world. Against that background, is it totally surprising that young men from poor backgrounds with few prospects in a country that practises public contempt and hate for their religion almost as a state-sanctioned activity and who must be fully aware of the history of their country are extremely angry?

    They are prey to every passing fanatic with a plausible message aimed at giving them some feeling of worthiness and meeting their desire for revenge.

    I am not condoning their actions, but there is so much ignorance on this in France and here. The French would prefer to forget their imperialistic oppression of Algeria and also choose to permit vitriolic attacks on Muslim beliefs as a way of life. Is that right?
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    (Original post by GailQ)
    No. The "that" you refer to is part of what is called Sharia law and I can assure you that many societies - entire countries in fact - still practice it stringently. Unless you are trying to imply that most of the Middle East is an extremist society?
    Excluding beirut- great place to party in- I would definitely say the majority of the middle east is extreme.

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    (Original post by Naima_786)
    Of course I have, what are you trying to say?
    By not allowing me to draw something, you're offending me and violating my religious rights.

    Why must I cater to your religious views and you cannot cater to mine that everybody should be able to draw anyone?
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    (Original post by SiminaM)
    Then what is the difference between offending someone for their skin color or for their religion and culture? Why is racism seen as a bad thing if mocking a religion/culture is seen as an act of freedom of speech?
    what you say has nothing to do with the massacre

    if you think that a cartoon goes against the law, you file a case. In fact, several cases were filed against Charlie Hebdo, but (to my knowledge) they always won.

    The law is our common rule, and the basis of civil society. If you take up the law in your hands, you are wrong. The judges determine if a cartoon or an article go against the law

    People are offended for the most various and even futile reasons. You cannot follow everyone's whims and desires

    E.g., the Quran says that "unbelievers are the vilest of animals". I am deeply, deeply offended. The Quran should be prohibited.
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    (Original post by elhm1800)
    Excluding beirut- great place to party in- I would definitely say the majority of the middle east is extreme.

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    Well then, good. I'm glad we can agree to conclude that Islam has indeed not "grown up".
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    Come on Guardian journalists, we need more columns on Charlie Hebdo. NOW.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    I am not condoning their actions, but there is so much ignorance on this in France and here. The French would prefer to forget their imperialistic oppression of Algeria and also choose to permit vitriolic attacks on Muslim beliefs as a way of life. Is that right?
    These two miscreants were born in France, what basis do they have to claim their attack was based on France's actions in Algeria decades before they were born, or the actions of the Algerian government when they never even lived there?

    The fact one of the brothers had been caught with child pornography speaks volumes about character and motivations.
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    (Original post by Mackay)
    Come on Guardian journalists, we need more columns on Charlie Hebdo. NOW.
    Not only do we need more columns, we need more columns telling us how in the wake of this event we need to scrutinise the West and its racism and failure to make Muslims feel comfortable. We need columns to tell us how Islam means Peace and this attack had nothing to do with religion, and if you question that you are a bigot. We need columns to take the spotlight off the perpetrators of actual murders and put it on our supposed failings
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    I live in France and all of you English racists make me laught. Don't spread your racial ideology into our country, unlike in the UK in France you are not judged by your race/religion but by your character. I am a French Sri Lankan , and we all know that those people were religious extremists like Ander Breivik , who was brainwashed by EDL.I am proud to say that I love France/my french brothers(including muslims. You English people won't break us!
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    (Original post by mariachi)
    what you say has nothing to do with the massacre

    if you think that a cartoon goes against the law, you file a case. In fact, several cases were filed against Charlie Hebdo, but (to my knowledge) they always won.

    The law is our common rule, and the basis of civil society. If you take up the law in your hands, you are wrong. The judges determine if a cartoon or an article go against the law

    People are offended for the most various and even futile reasons. You cannot follow everyone's whims and desires

    E.g., the Quran says that "unbelievers are the vilest of animals". I am deeply, deeply offended. The Quran should be prohibited.
    They have been condemned several times when they defamed or clearly insulted someone. The most famous case was when they qualified Marine Le Pen's sister of "Chienne de Buchenwald" (=the ***** [the animal] of Buchenwald).
    Otherwise all religious complaints were rejected.
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    (Original post by Jesuisunpoulet)
    I live in France and all of you English racists make me laught. Don't spread your racial ideology into our country, unlike in the UK in France you are not judged by your race/religion but by your character. I am a French Sri Lankan , and we all know that those people were religious extremists like Ander Breivik , who was brainwashed by EDL.I am proud to say that I love France/my french brothers(including muslims. You English people won't break us!
    Marie Le Pen might.
 
 
 
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