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    That school was not a good preparatory school, nor can the independent school be a decent independent school, I was in tiered sets for lessons since a very young age; setting children works. A school that refuses to use sets cannot be considered a school promoting academic excellent for the most intelligent, nor the most able, however, consider yourself lucky because if the preparatory school attendance was not there your education would have not been as good.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Then either it wasn't a top independent school or you would have been even worse in state.
    I'd call Eastbourne College pretty good(okay, not Eton or Harrow, but compared to others in Kent and Sussex) and I don't see how I would have been any worse in state. Being born to parents with money is not a guarantee of intelligence.
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    That school was not a good preparatory school, nor can the independent school be a decent independent school, I was in tiered sets for lessons since a very young age; setting children works. A school that refuses to use sets cannot be considered a school promoting academic excellent for the most intelligent, nor the most able, however, consider yourself lucky because if the preparatory school attendance was not there your education would have not been as good.
    It depends on the person, I did better whilst in sets from having to help those who were less able.
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    That school was not a good preparatory school, nor can the independent school be a decent independent school, I was in tiered sets for lessons since a very young age; setting children works. A school that refuses to use sets cannot be considered a school promoting academic excellent for the most intelligent, nor the most able, however, consider yourself lucky because if the preparatory school attendance was not there your education would have not been as good.
    I was in tiered sets, was in Set 1 for most things. It would have been even worse if I hadn't been.
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    It depends on the person, I did better whilst in sets from having to help those who were less able.
    I disagree, having people of similar ability all competing to be the best is more motivating for the more intelligent than being in a class where the most intelligent become big-headed.
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    (Original post by cranbrook_aspie)
    I'd call Eastbourne College pretty good(okay, not Eton or Harrow, but compared to others in Kent and Sussex) and I don't see how I would have been any worse in state. Being born to parents with money is not a guarantee of intelligence.
    The point of being selective is to get rid of the idiots, going to state likely bunches you in with more and bigger idiots.
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    (Original post by cranbrook_aspie)
    I was in tiered sets, was in Set 1 for most things. It would have been even worse if I hadn't been.
    I disagree, having people of similar ability all competing to be the best is more motivating for the more intelligent than being in a class where the most intelligent become big-headed. In your example I suspect the real reason was a lack of motivation, or not being as far ahead as first thought, however, the real test is to see who does better in life; that is all that matters.
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    (Original post by cranbrook_aspie)
    You are just wrong on so many levels in my personal experience. I went to a feeder prep school for a top independent school in Sussex and I hate having to say this so bluntly, I really do, but pretty much every single person in my classes bar Quamquam123 was not as intelligent as me. I'm not boasting, it's just a fact. My learning was actually compromised in my last couple of years there because in your average lesson we would still be doing stuff that I had understood two lessons previously but most others hadn't got yet. I am getting a far better education at my state grammar school than I would have done had I continued to go private( not that I had that option anyway, the inheritance from a rich ancestor that funded me going to private school ran out when I was 13).
    Wait , so do you support independent schools or do you think that all education should be delivered by the state ? .... I have no problems with entrance exams into private schools ..... It did'nt brother me in the slightest ......

    My point is why shouldn't private schools be allowed to select student based on intellect ?
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    I disagree, having people of similar ability all competing to be the best is more motivating for the more intelligent than being in a class where the most intelligent become big-headed.
    As I said it depends on the person, the reason that I'm suited to my career is the same reason that I did better in classes of mixed ability. Some people focus more on being competitive whilst others focus more on solving issues as a collective. I think that if schools took note of the differences in students, understanding that some work better in different ways (like a few private schools I know of do) then it's beneficial to all students.
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    (Original post by hazzer1998)
    My point is why shouldn't private schools be allowed to select student based on intellect ?
    To be fair, you do get a cherry-picking effect where they pick the most intelligent which means that state schools are stuck with students of less potential. That naturally makes it more difficult for the state to reach on par with independents in academic performance.
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    I think my classes worked quite well to be honest in sets. If we were doing work, there was always the competition to finish first all correct, and then when you did, the teacher would let you help others if they needed it... Just because everyone in the set is good ability, doesn't mean you can't help others...
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    (Original post by The Financier)
    To be fair, you do get a cherry-picking effect where they pick the most intelligent which means that state schools are stuck with students of less potential. That naturally makes it more difficult for the state to reach on par with independents in academic performance.
    Not necessarily... It's not like private schools will hunt down the intelligent ones... They've got to apply first.

    In any case, private schools take a load off the state system, and so they should be thanked!
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    (Original post by mobbsy91)
    I think my classes worked quite well to be honest in sets. If we were doing work, there was always the competition to finish first all correct, and then when you did, the teacher would let you help others if they needed it... Just because everyone in the set is good ability, doesn't mean you can't help others...
    I'm only speaking from my own experience, I did remarkably better in English where we had no sets than maths where we had sets. Competition isn't as much of a factor for some than it is others. I was in top set for Maths, got a B and resat, when revising for the resit I did a lot more of my work informally working with people of varying abilities because I enjoyed finding out new ways of helping people solve problems, looking at things from different perspectives. I was never in sets for any of my English classes, and I'd always find myself with someone of a lesser ability and it served me and my partners well learning off each other.
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    (Original post by mobbsy91)
    I think my classes worked quite well to be honest in sets. If we were doing work, there was always the competition to finish first all correct, and then when you did, the teacher would let you help others if they needed it... Just because everyone in the set is good ability, doesn't mean you can't help others...
    I preferred my system, get it all correct before anybody else and then just not say and sit around doing jack, unless it was something completely new. Plotted the tan graph from -6\pi to 6\pi before most people have even done a quarter of it given that most couldn't even manage simple pattern recognition.
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    I'm only speaking from my own experience, I did remarkably better in English where we had no sets than maths where we had sets. Competition isn't as much of a factor for some than it is others. I was in top set for Maths, got a B and resat, when revising for the resit I did a lot more of my work informally working with people of varying abilities because I enjoyed finding out new ways of helping people solve problems, looking at things from different perspectives. I was never in sets for any of my English classes, and I'd always find myself with someone of a lesser ability and it served me and my partners well learning off each other.
    I don't really see in English how competition system can really work??? Especially with regard to preparation for GCSEs and A levels...
    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    I preferred my system, get it all correct before anybody else and then just not say and sit around doing jack, unless it was something completely new. Plotted the tan graph from -6\pi to 6\pi before most people have even done a quarter of it given that most couldn't even manage simple pattern recognition.
    Yeh well... some people are nice I guess!
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    (Original post by mobbsy91)
    Not necessarily... It's not like private schools will hunt down the intelligent ones... They've got to apply first.

    In any case, private schools take a load off the state system, and so they should be thanked!
    Of course, but it's easy to discriminate between academic performance. Simply set your minimum ability band very high and you filter out those that aren't as good as the others.

    Indeed. Though I'm generally content with my all-state education, I'll probably throw as much money as I can/need to to send my kids to the best private schools.
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    Well, looks like another gaffe from the chancellor and in campaign, not only are they trying to convince us they can predict the state of the economy in 14 years when they can't even manage to do it for the next 14 days, but the model they are using has been discredited, at least for the way they are using it.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    The point of being selective is to get rid of the idiots, going to state likely bunches you in with more and bigger idiots.
    And the point of tutoring, something that can usually only be afforded by the rich, is to ensure that an idiot isn't got rid of.

    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    I disagree, having people of similar ability all competing to be the best is more motivating for the more intelligent than being in a class where the most intelligent become big-headed. In your example I suspect the real reason was a lack of motivation, or not being as far ahead as first thought, however, the real test is to see who does better in life; that is all that matters.
    Well I agree with that, it's just that despite being in the most intelligent set I was still competing with people of lower ability. I was perfectly motivated to do the work, it's just that having done the work and grasped the concept I would then become bored and disengaged when we were still covering the topic to cater for those who hadn't got it yet.


    (Original post by hazzer1998)
    Wait , so do you support independent schools or do you think that all education should be delivered by the state ? .... I have no problems with entrance exams into private schools ..... It did'nt brother me in the slightest ......

    My point is why shouldn't private schools be allowed to select student based on intellect ?
    Yes, I think all education should be delivered by the state because if a private school is better than a state school because it has access to more funding then that's unfair, if it's not better than a state school then the people sending their children to the private school have been taken in and duped into wasting their money, because there is no logical point in paying for something if it's not better than what you could have got for free. Either way, they're bad.

    If we assume that private schools are here to stay, then I don't have a particular problem with entrance exams, I do think they're a little bizarre though. I mean, effectively what you're doing when you send your kids to private school is buying a product, i.e. their education, and you don't get, say, supermarkets telling people they can't buy a can of Coke because they look as if they care about their health so they might have doubts about drinking it.
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    (Original post by mobbsy91)
    I don't really see in English how competition system can really work??? Especially with regard to preparation for GCSEs and A levels...
    Well there was a little bit of competition, classmates would often get their "gems" read out in front of the class. And even in Alevel, it was the same, no sets, very much mixed ability and it served a few of us rather well.

    A few notable gems were.

    "his hair stood on end like officers in the army"
    "the sunlight had clung to the edges of the leaves, causing the tree to shimmer as if made of pure gold"

    There were a few more, but when someone had a gem, no matter what their level of ability was, it would inspire the entire class.
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    (Original post by The Financier)
    Of course, but it's easy to discriminate between academic performance. Simply set your minimum ability band very high and you filter out those that aren't as good as the others.

    Indeed. Though I'm generally content with my all-state education, I'll probably throw as much money as I can/need to to send my kids to the best private schools.
    Aye it is, but then what other criteria do they look at... it's very hard to pick people based on perhaps a 10 minute interview... They've got to filter people out some way, and as school is mostly about learning, it makes sense to do it on academic ability.
 
 
 
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