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    (Original post by Borgia)
    Marie Le Pen might.
    Most of people in France , hate Marine Le Pen and Le Front national. It's not like in the UK
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    Does anyone think that this will inevitably 'kick off' on a large violent scale within Europe eventually? I mean 1930's Germany style.
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    (Original post by Jesuisunpoulet)
    Most of people in France , hate Marine Le Pen and Le Front national. It's not like in the UK
    Many people like Marine Le Pen in France, otherwise she wouldn't score more than 20% in the polls. I bet she will break the far-right record in the next elections.
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    (Original post by Jesuisunpoulet)
    Most of people in France , hate Marine Le Pen and Le Front national. It's not like in the UK
    Except they get more voters than the BNP ever have...
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    (Original post by mariachi)
    what you say has nothing to do with the massacre

    if you think that a cartoon goes against the law, you file a case. In fact, several cases were filed against Charlie Hebdo, but (to my knowledge) they always won.

    The law is our common rule, and the basis of civil society. If you take up the law in your hands, you are wrong. The judges determine if a cartoon or an article go against the law

    People are offended for the most various and even futile reasons. You cannot follow everyone's whims and desires

    E.g., the Quran says that "unbelievers are the vilest of animals". I am deeply, deeply offended. The Quran should be prohibited.
    People who believe that there is no higher power than themselves are clearly deluded.
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    (Original post by clh_hilary)
    By not allowing me to draw something, you're offending me and violating my religious rights.

    Why must I cater to your religious views and you cannot cater to mine that everybody should be able to draw anyone?
    It's a cartoon.

    Is that what you do in your spare time, draw pictures of mohammed? Or perhaps the only reason you draw them is because you wish to offend other people.

    Personally if someone finds something offensive, I'm not going to go out of my way to offend them. It's what used to be called, "being a decent human".


    Grow up, and wake up.
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    (Original post by young_guns)
    Not only do we need more columns, we need more columns telling us how in the wake of this event we need to scrutinise the West and its racism and failure to make Muslims feel comfortable. We need columns to tell us how Islam means Peace and this attack had nothing to do with religion, and if you question that you are a bigot. We need columns to take the spotlight off the perpetrators of actual murders and put it on our supposed failings
    You're either a shill, or a severely lonely man. No self respecting person would devote so much free time towards badmouthing a religious group on the internet.

    Wake up from this dream.
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    The video of the terrorist getting shot up even after he went down is amazing

    I bet the liberals are crying about this. I bet they wish that they could have been rehabilitated

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    I agree with some of that, but I don't think we can be quite so confident that the anti-'fascist' side is 'winning', given that the Jihadis now have their own country, which they didn't before and are on the edge of having several more. (Yemen and presumably Afghanistan as soon as the US packs up and leaves it to the Taliban.)

    I also don't think that 'Islamofascist' is really all that accurate. What really motivated these people? Hamza is in the mix (perhaps predictably) as are ISIS, but surely we should look at Algeria if we want to really get to the bottom of this. Like Egypt, Algeria originally had a reasonably moderate and idealistic Islamic-tinged democratic movement that was suppressed with the most appalling brutality. The cruelty directed at those who opposed the tyranny of the French-supported government of Algeria over many years is amongst the worst of any country in the world. Against that background, is it totally surprising that young men from poor backgrounds with few prospects in a country that practises public contempt and hate for their religion almost as a state-sanctioned activity and who must be fully aware of the history of their country are extremely angry?

    They are prey to every passing fanatic with a plausible message aimed at giving them some feeling of worthiness and meeting their desire for revenge.

    I am not condoning their actions, but there is so much ignorance on this in France and here. The French would prefer to forget their imperialistic oppression of Algeria and also choose to permit vitriolic attacks on Muslim beliefs as a way of life. Is that right?



    Swat im saying.
    This has been simmering for a long time.
    Gonna give you a plus rep when i get some more
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    At least the attackers were killed by police. IMO, more British police need to carry guns. They often have sidearms around where I live, but I'm out in the countryside where there are lots of people with shotguns and hunting rifles. I think city police need to be able to despatch someone if the law calls for it, if it means saving lots of lives. Of course, the downside to this is being able to control it and be sensible about it. I think we have a system that works very well - the tasers in cities, guns in countryside - considering the harsh gun control. I do think that we're close to being perfect, but having just a few more armed beat bobbies in the cities would be helpful and send a strong message that (while it sounds violent, it's important!) we might be an open society, but if you come to our country and try to harm our people, there's someone on half the streets in the city who'll put a hollowpoint in your head!
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    (Original post by XMaramena)
    At least the attackers were killed by police. IMO, more British police need to carry guns. They often have sidearms around where I live, but I'm out in the countryside where there are lots of people with shotguns and hunting rifles. I think city police need to be able to despatch someone if the law calls for it, if it means saving lots of lives. Of course, the downside to this is being able to control it and be sensible about it. I think we have a system that works very well - the tasers in cities, guns in countryside - considering the harsh gun control. I do think that we're close to being perfect, but having just a few more armed beat bobbies in the cities would be helpful and send a strong message that (while it sounds violent, it's important!) we might be an open society, but if you come to our country and try to harm our people, there's someone on half the streets in the city who'll put a hollowpoint in your head!
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    (Original post by Stalin)
    LOL america is a joke - the police there are trigger happy crazies. It would be good to find something sensible between the two extremes though.
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    (Original post by ESPORTIVA)
    The video of the terrorist getting shot up even after he went down is amazing

    I bet the liberals are crying about this. I bet they wish that they could have been rehabilitated

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I want to see. You got a link?
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    Very good article by Omid Safi, Director of Duke University's Islamic Studies Center.

    http://www.onbeing.org/blog/9-points...lie-hebdo/7193
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Very good article by Omid Safi, Director of Duke University's Islamic Studies Center.

    http://www.onbeing.org/blog/9-points...lie-hebdo/7193
    I'm afraid he talks nonsense when he says:

    I also wonder what we do when the “freedom to offend” is not applied equally across the board, but targets again and again communities that are marginalized and ostracized.
    it is free speech as applied disproportionately against a community that is racially, religiously and socioeconomically on the margins of French — and many other European — society.
    The cartoons did not target Islamic communities at all. They targeted hypocrisy in religion, the use of religion for political and terrorist purposes, and those who suborned religious motifs in their ideology.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Very good article by Omid Safi, Director of Duke University's Islamic Studies Center.

    http://www.onbeing.org/blog/9-points...lie-hebdo/7193
    Article is spot on.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    I'm afraid he talks nonsense when he says:

    The cartoons did not target Islamic communities at all. They targeted hypocrisy in religion, the use of religion for political and terrorist purposes, and those who suborned religious motifs in their ideology.
    Interesting article in Slate, comparing Charlie Hebdo to white power KKK magazines.
    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...so_racist.html

    It isn't accurate to depict Hebdo as some kind of bastion of rational values surrounded by a sea of furious reactionary Muslims. A more realistic view should take into account French racism, colonial attitudes, the notoriously arrogant world view of the French literary elites and the tendency of France as a nation to pretend that it does not have religious or ethnic minorities, or that if it does, they should have no say in how the Republic functions.
    • Political Ambassador
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    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by young_guns)
    These two miscreants were born in France, what basis do they have to claim their attack was based on France's actions in Algeria decades before they were born, or the actions of the Algerian government when they never even lived there?

    The fact one of the brothers had been caught with child pornography speaks volumes about character and motivations.
    Their parents were Algerian so there was a connection through that. They likely would have heard stories and that sort of thing, which would have helped form their world view.

    The difficulty here is that there are so many reasons for why people go on to carry out attacks like this. Any number of reasons from the French attitude to Islam, the broken upbringing of the men ( one lived in a foster home at one point), their time in prison, their own mental states ( one apparent was very psychotic), issues within Islam itself. There really is no one explanation into why this attack happened. Frankly there seems to be a tendency to pick up on one explanation and ride it was the sole one. Just look at this forum where many have decided Islam is the sole explanation.

    It's much easier to just decide one explanation than it is to have a close examination of French society or even how Islam deals with the extremists within it.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Interesting article in Slate, comparing Charlie Hebdo to white power KKK magazines.
    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...so_racist.html

    It isn't accurate to depict Hebdo as some kind of bastion of rational values surrounded by a sea of furious reactionary Muslims. A more realistic view should take into account French racism, colonial attitudes, the notoriously arrogant world view of the French literary elites and the tendency of France as a nation to pretend that it does not have religious or ethnic minorities, or that if it does, they should have no say in how the Republic functions.
    This has nothing to do with Charlie-Hebdo, an Anarcho-Marxist magazine, whose members have fought racism and colonialism all their life. Cabu was notably mobilised in the French army during the Algerian war and drew antimilitarist cartoons during this time (and therefore risked his life).
    As true Marxists, they have always despised religions, hence their recurring attacks against Islam, which in my opinion, were mild compared to their statements against Catholics and right-wing politicians.
    Comparing them with KKK is ludicrous and meaningless.
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    (Original post by Stalin)
    :rofl:
    (Original post by ESPORTIVA)
    The video of the terrorist getting shot up even after he went down is amazing

    I bet the liberals are crying about this. I bet they wish that they could have been rehabilitated

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    :rofl:

    Ain't laughed this hard for a long time.
 
 
 
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