The I-SOC (Islamic Society) XIII

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    (Original post by Zayn is Bae)
    Apologies for that, I was mainly joking but I guess you weren't to know. Just the fact that IslamQA is generally known for being a terrorist sympathiser site at times (although it's good for issues that are generally agreed on tbf).
    Haven't ever known them to sympathise with terrorism or seen any evidence for that tbh...

    2. https://islamqa.info/en/187877

    This is what I mean by not liking IslamQA, and it ties nicely in with my point! I mean generally if people don't agree with it they could just say, but they have to take it to another level and call it bid'ah (they love throwing that word around don't they?). All that person did was read verses sending praise to the Prophet (SAW) and from the Qur'an, whilst giving away animals for the reward from Allah SWT, but according to whoever wrote the article they are committing a sin?
    This is not the type of Khatam you spoke about - the sort you spoke about is mentioned in another IslamQA fatwa and echoed what I said (so long as no bidah takes place).

    This specific fatwa deals with the issue that one is performing specific kinds of dhikrs and surah recitations for which there is no evidence in the Sunnah (e.g. say ABC an X number of times) and as a group, and presumably loudly too. As we know, we recite and perform dhikr in order to get closer to Allah, and these are acts of worship. The Prophet (SAW) taught us how to get closer to Allah, the merits of certain acts etc, and the Prophet completed his job and Allah tells us in the Quran that He has perfected the religion for us (so nothing can be improved on in terms of deen). If people all gather performing a form of dhikr which was not done by the prophet, then this is an innovation. If people perfom said type of dhikr in a way not done by the prophet, then it is an innovation. If people recite surahs in a way not done by the prophet, seeking reward from Allah by reciting it a certain number of times, then I think this too would be an innovation; this differs from one reciting a surah several times in order to memorise or teach or other such permissible things. IslamQA thus says that in the authentic sunnah, there is no evidence for performing these actions this way, which is why they constitute bidah.

    As a side note: perhaps you might get frustrated with people being very very cautious with innovation, but it is a grave sin that one should be cautious of, and I doubt there has been a single successful nation before the ummah of Muhammad (SAW) which eventually was corrupted by innovation, so it is not a matter one should take lightly.

    3. What about the other way though? I don't think there's avoiding working in a mixed workplace for either men or women. I think context has to be applied to modern day society, generally the evidence bandied about related to men and women interacting in a personal manner, not a professional one. From my understanding, my reading, and the scholars I go by, it is perfectly allowed for women to work. Not saying you will or should agree with that, just my two cents
    In the other way, men too should try to avoid interaction where possible too, but the difference here is that men are the maintainers of women (as said in the Quran), therefore working for their livelihood and looking after their wives and family is something obligated upon them whereas with women it is not.
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    (Original post by h333)
    I had no idea what a barelvi was until I read on ISOC lol.
    I've met brothers who were "barelwi" their whole life without knowing they were "barelwi".
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    (Original post by Zayn is Bae)
    So ''who'' is Ahle Sunnat? To say Barelvi's are a desi thing is wholly inaccurate, when the majority of Indonesians/Malaysian's are considered to be Ahle Sunnat as well. Who would you consider to be, Saudi's? :rofl:
    It really isnt, ive never met an African/Arab/South East Asian/European barelvi.

    Yes i know majority of Indonesians/Malaysians are from Ahle Sunnah as are majority of Saudis, Syrians, Palestinans, Yemenis, Afghans, North Africans, East Africans etc... None are barelvis though, some are sufis.
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    (Original post by Inve)
    I've met brothers who were "barelwi" their whole life without knowing they were "barelwi".
    :rofl: :unsure: bless them. May Allah guide us all. Ameen.
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    Reminds me of Ali Dawah

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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    Haven't ever known them to sympathise with terrorism or seen any evidence for that tbh...



    This is not the type of Khatam you spoke about - the sort you spoke about is mentioned in another IslamQA fatwa and echoed what I said (so long as no bidah takes place).

    This specific fatwa deals with the issue that one is performing specific kinds of dhikrs and surah recitations for which there is no evidence in the Sunnah (e.g. say ABC an X number of times) and as a group, and presumably loudly too. As we know, we recite and perform dhikr in order to get closer to Allah, and these are acts of worship. The Prophet (SAW) taught us how to get closer to Allah, the merits of certain acts etc, and the Prophet completed his job and Allah tells us in the Quran that He has perfected the religion for us (so nothing can be improved on in terms of deen). If people all gather performing a form of dhikr which was not done by the prophet, then this is an innovation. If people perfom said type of dhikr in a way not done by the prophet, then it is an innovation. If people recite surahs in a way not done by the prophet, seeking reward from Allah by reciting it a certain number of times, then I think this too would be an innovation; this differs from one reciting a surah several times in order to memorise or teach or other such permissible things. IslamQA thus says that in the authentic sunnah, there is no evidence for performing these actions this way, which is why they constitute bidah.

    As a side note: perhaps you might get frustrated with people being very very cautious with innovation, but it is a grave sin that one should be cautious of, and I doubt there has been a single successful nation before the ummah of Muhammad (SAW) which eventually was corrupted by innovation, so it is not a matter one should take lightly.
    I accept that, but I can't agree that this sort of bid'ah is a sin even if not done by the Prophet SAW. As the best of mankind, he sought to make things easy for the Ummah, and knew that if he was to partake in such activities such as Dhikr regularly then the Sahaba would feel inclined to do this all the time as well, and so would the resulting Ummah. This is why sunnah prayer was not ALWAYS offered, it was the Prophet SAW making things easier for us. In the Pakistani community, after the completion of Fard namaz the congregation usually read the shahadah together. This practise came as a result of mis pronunciation by many due to a lack of education, so imams would read and others would copy so that people would learn to say even the basic first kalimah with proper pronunciation. This wasn't done by the Sahaba or the prophet SAW, and therefore many Salafi's have labelled this bid'ah. Would you say that this is an example of bid'ah?
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    (Original post by h333)
    :rofl: :unsure: bless them. May Allah guide us all. Ameen.
    Ameen.
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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    Reminds me of Ali Dawah

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    Lol. We humans are so ungrateful
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    (Original post by h333)
    Lol. We humans are so ungrateful
    Ikr.

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    I am off to cry....jks.....Alhamdulillah
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    (Original post by h333)
    I am off to cry....jks.....Alhamdulillah
    Lol. Something I like to do before I sleep- just thank Allah (SWT) for everything He has given you throughout the day

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    O who you who believe! Know, May Allah have mercy on you, that for an act of Ibaadah (worship) to be accepted by Allah it must come with two conditions:

    1. The action is done sincerely for the sake of Allah.
    2. The action be in accordance with the Sunnah of the Prophet

    Ibaadah (Worship) is defined as "A comprehensive term, encompassing all apparent and hidden acts and statements that are beloved by Allah."

    The evidence for the first condition is the saying of Allah:

    And they were not commanded except to worship Allah , [being] sincere to Him in religion. [Quran 98:5]

    And the Prophet said:

    Actions are based upon intentions.

    [Bukhari & Muslim]

    The evidence for the second condition is the saying of the Prophet:

    “He who innovates something in this matter of ours (i.e., Islam) that is not of it will have it rejected (by Allah).”

    [Bukhari & Muslim]

    In a version in Saheeh Muslim it reads:

    “He who does an act which we have not commanded, will have it rejected (by Allah).”

    So when you are presented with doing any action - check it by these two conditions and you will be protected from the Prophets statement:

    The worst of things are those that are newly invented; every newly-invented thing is an innovation and every innovation is going astray, and every going astray is in the Fire.

    Sunan an-Nasa'i 1578
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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    Lol. Something I like to do before I sleep- just thank Allah (SWT) for everything He has given you throughout the day

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    You are making me emotional now idk why
    Masha'Allah that is so great you do that. Alhamdulillah always

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    (Original post by ThatMuslimGuy)
    O who you who believe! Know, May Allah have mercy on you, that for an act of Ibaadah (worship) to be accepted by Allah it must come with two conditions:

    1. The action is done sincerely for the sake of Allah.
    2. The action be in accordance with the Sunnah of the Prophet

    Ibaadah (Worship) is defined as "A comprehensive term, encompassing all apparent and hidden acts and statements that are beloved by Allah."

    The evidence for the first condition is the saying of Allah:

    And they were not commanded except to worship Allah , [being] sincere to Him in religion. [Quran 98:5]

    And the Prophet said:

    Actions are based upon intentions.

    [Bukhari & Muslim]

    The evidence for the second condition is the saying of the Prophet:

    “He who innovates something in this matter of ours (i.e., Islam) that is not of it will have it rejected (by Allah).”

    [Bukhari & Muslim]

    In a version in Saheeh Muslim it reads:

    “He who does an act which we have not commanded, will have it rejected (by Allah).”

    So when you are presented with doing any action - check it by these two conditions and you will be protected from the Prophets statement:

    The worst of things are those that are newly invented; every newly-invented thing is an innovation and every innovation is going astray, and every going astray is in the Fire.

    Sunan an-Nasa'i 1578
    Well done, you can quote. Can you however, apply both context and intention to each and every context rather than blanket statementing everything? Are you saying someone who reads Kalimah (I.e declaring there is no God but Allah and Muhammad (SAW) is the final messenger) after completing Salah is getting sins for this act?
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    (Original post by Facing Time)
    I accept that, but I can't agree that this sort of bid'ah is a sin even if not done by the Prophet SAW. As the best of mankind, he sought to make things easy for the Ummah, and knew that if he was to partake in such activities such as Dhikr regularly then the Sahaba would feel inclined to do this all the time as well, and so would the resulting Ummah. This is why sunnah prayer was not ALWAYS offered, it was the Prophet SAW making things easier for us. In the Pakistani community, after the completion of Fard namaz the congregation usually read the shahadah together. This practise came as a result of mis pronunciation by many due to a lack of education, so imams would read and others would copy so that people would learn to say even the basic first kalimah with proper pronunciation. This wasn't done by the Sahaba or the prophet SAW, and therefore many Salafi's have labelled this bid'ah. Would you say that this is an example of bid'ah?
    I have not read into the scholastic definition of bidah, but from what I know, frequency and manner and intention are key in dictating whether or not it is innovation. In this case, the manner in which it is done is recite 'ABC X number of times', and this is outside of the Sunnah (since these numbers are made up); at least for Sunnah prayers, these were actually defined, the number of rakaat specified etc, whereas this practice is not specified anywhere.

    The practice could constitute innovation because of the frequency in the case of the Kalimah thing if it is after every fardh prayer; if it was on rare occasion then I guess there would be nothing wrong with it.
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    (Original post by Facing Time)
    Well done, you can quote. Can you however, apply both context and intention to each and every context rather than blanket statementing everything? Are you saying someone who reads Kalimah (I.e declaring there is no God but Allah and Muhammad (SAW) is the final messenger) after completing Salah is getting sins for this act?
    It is established in both Bukhari & Muslim among other books of hadeeth that the Prophet would say after the prayer:

    Laa Illaha illAllahu Wahdahu laa shareeka lahu lahul mulku wa lahul hamdu wa hawu ala kulli shayin qadeer.

    The Prophet said:

    The most beloved words to Allah are four:

    SubhanAllah
    walhamdulillah
    Wa laa illaha ill Alah
    Wallahu akbar

    [Saheeh Muslim]

    You would need to clarify what you are trying to say.
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    (Original post by h333)
    You are making me emotional now idk why
    Masha'Allah that is so great you do that. Alhamdulillah always

    Thanks for sharing x

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    (Original post by ThatMuslimGuy)
    It is established in both Bukhari & Muslim among other books of hadeeth that the Prophet would say after the prayer:

    Laa Illaha illAllahu Wahdahu laa shareeka lahu lahul mulku wa lahul hamdu wa hawu ala kulli shayin qadeer.

    The Prophet said:

    The most beloved words to Allah are four:

    SubhanAllah
    walhamdulillah
    Wa laa illaha ill Alah
    Wallahu akbar

    [Saheeh Muslim]

    You would need to clarify what you are trying to say.
    Read my above post. Many salafi scholars have denounced the practise of reading the first Kalimah after Salah as bid'ah. Would you agree with this notion?
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    (Original post by Facing Time)
    Read my above post. Many salafi scholars have denounced the practise of reading the first Kalimah after Salah as bid'ah. Would you agree with this notion?
    Reciting aloud as a congregational practice*
 
 
 
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