Private Schools Ought to be Abolished Watch

Hopping Mad Kangaroo
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#101
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#101
(Original post by Bismarck)
How is that relevant to the statement you highlighted? It is a fact that banning private schools would not improve the education of the poor in any way. All it would do is hurt the education of the rich.
Actually, it only hurts the education of the dim but well educated. The bright and well educated benefit from the change - the 3 years they spend at university ends up being in a geniune academic environment.

As for the dim but well educated, they deserve nothing. Why are you standing up for them?
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34253
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#102
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#102
(Original post by Melz0r)
Are you SERIOUS?

Rich = well-behaved, poor = scum. It's no more culturally complex and multilayered than that. Of course, of course, why didn't I see it all this time? It's those scummy POOR. Damn them.
It was slightly tongue in cheek. But if you have ever attended a state school you will realise that the families that these children come from are worthless scum, it is throwing good money at bad. I don't care why they are bad, I just care that they are and want my children away from them. The idea that everyone should be schooled together has already been a massive failure, instead of the rubbish kids getting better the good kids have just gotten worse.
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Tommy Jay
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#103
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#103
it's not just about education.

What school you go usually represents what social class you fit in. Although this is not always the case, the rich generally stay with the rich, and the poor stay with the poor. The school you go to simply puts your social class under one roof, while separating you from the others.
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OhNO!
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#104
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#104
(Original post by PGtips92)
So,

Pushy parents + rich = v. likely to be successful
Pushy parents + poor = likely to be successful
Not pushy parents + rich = likely to be successful
Not pushy parents + poor = unlikely to be successful

Do you agree?
Well, in a very vague sense, yes sort of.

Yes it would be expensive, but it may in fact be very cheap (long term) if it means that the brightest and most capabale individuals get the most important and best rewarded jobs.

Why wouldn't it work? It would mean that anyone who has the potential to achieve best goes to the best school, regardless of parental wealth...
I think it wouldn't work for the reasons that I said. I don't think that extra tuition in very poor areas for very disruptive kids is a) going to happen, they won't turn up and b) is really going to make any dent in the quality of their educational experience (I'm guessing we're talking like an hour a week in a group of a few kids?)

It's a solution that doesn't tackle the main reasons that working-class kids tend to do worse in school that middle class kids - those reasons (I imagine) being - poor schools, apathetic parents, apathetic peers, communities where valuing education and going onto higher education is not the norm. Do you think an hour or so or tuition is going to help people in these situations?
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Turdburger
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#105
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#105
(Original post by Hopping Mad Kangaroo)
The problem is that the exams are little more than memory tests - which require time rather than geniune academic ability. It also gives the publically educated students a massive advantage, they are already socialised into the enviroment here, which means they have more time to commit to rote learning. Not to mention they have been schooled in how to study in the university environment, we haven't to anything like the extent.

Though in all honesty, Durham do not operate a credible examination system. I doubt its any different at your university.
I went to a very good private school. I was totally unready for the university style of learning. We were spoonfed to an extent. I got a 2.2 in first year a result. Took me a while to adjust to the style of learning in universitys (I then got a good first in 2nd year.) I would say this is not atypical for private school pupils.
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Libtolu
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#106
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The thing that i already commented on gives an explanation of why private educated people go to top uni's. because if your paying 18k a year for your child to go to school you're going to make sure he does well, and you clearly put a high price on education.

The people who can't afford private school like my mum but still think education is critical still helped me achieve more than my peers.

Hell out of all my school friends i'm about 1 of 3 going to uni out of about 30-40 friends.

I may not be going to oxford but that is due to me being lazy and never revising for exams, not my teachers fault.

The people who fail are either dense or didn't/don't care about education until too late, when their 40 still diggin roads and can barely afford a pint.
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DougieG
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#107
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#107
I just had some neg rep with the message 'waaah for you being poor'...

I guess that pretty much demonstrates the mental ability of a lot of conservatives, and their attitude towards those worse of than them. I'll say it again, though... I'm actually very well off. As if it matters.
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Turdburger
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#108
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#108
(Original post by DougieG)
No, the government would have to pay a fair price for the school property, but it would be compulsory to sell it. The owner(s) could take it to court if they didn't feel that the price was fair. I don't think cost covering would be impossible at all, for reasons I previously stated to another poster, because the money would be introduced from the change in fees for all state schools.



That's what I've found, on the whole. The issue is usually focused around method, and I've even found that a lot of conservatives agree with me 100% in principle, though don't think that it would work in practice.



I did originally mention home schooling, but I think its something that can't really be combated.
Ok so you do agree monies have to be found from the taxpayer. Surely if we got them to pay more tax and put that into fewer schools as we have at the moment that would be more benefical?

(Even if your plan is constructive)
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headunderwater
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#109
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#109
(Original post by Elipsis)
It was slightly tongue in cheek. But if you have ever attended a state school you will realise that the families that these children come from are worthless scum, it is throwing good money at bad. I don't care why they are bad, I just care that they are and want my children away from them. The idea that everyone should be schooled together has already been a massive failure, instead of the rubbish kids getting better the good kids have just gotten worse.
Such a disgusting attitude. What, in your opinion, classes a family as "scum"? Not enough money? A few more children than the norm? Who the hell are you to judge which families are worth "throwing good money at"?

So, in essence, you're supporting social class apartheid in schools?
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34253
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#110
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#110
(Original post by Libtolu)
The thing that i already commented on gives an explanation of why private educated people go to top uni's. because if your paying 18k a year for your child to go to school you're going to make sure he does well, and you clearly put a high price on education.

The people who can't afford private school like my mum but still think education is critical still helped me achieve more than my peers.

Hell out of all my school friends i'm about 1 of 3 going to uni out of about 30-40 friends.

I may not be going to oxford but that is due to me being lazy and never revising for exams, not my teachers fault.

The people who fail are either dense or didn't/don't care about education until too late, when their 40 still diggin roads and can barely afford a pint.
This is exactly what i'm saying. When you live in these crap areas you can tell who is never going to leave that post code and who is going to go places. My parents couldn't afford private education but they valued education and made me place a value on it as well, so I came out of a crap 30% A-C at GCSE school with a rather decent set of grades considering the idiots I had to share my classes with.
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JW92
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#111
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#111
(Original post by Bismarck)
A) You're falsely assuming that all private school teachers get paid significantly more than public school teachers.

B) You're assuming that the best teachers wouldn't simply move to another country or take up another profession (that pays better).

C) You're ignoring the fact that throwing all the current private school students into public schools would drastically increase class sizes, decreasing the quality of education for everyone.
A) Am I? I just assumed private school teachers are often better than state school teachers. That's a reasonable assumption.

B) Perhaps I'm being naive, but I would've thought the best teachers are those who teach because they want to and not for some kind of financial incentive. I also think the amount of teachers who emigrate would be pretty low. I just can't envisage hoards of British teachers leaving their home country for a higher pay cheque. Besides which, if the state invested more in teaching, this wouldn't even be an issue.

C) If we nationalised private schools and brought private school teachers back into the public sector, there would neither be a lack of schools nor a lack of teachers.
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Crimsonchilli
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#112
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#112
(Original post by Hopping Mad Kangaroo)
From my point of view it improves it - means they get to experience the real world for a change.
In all fairness, i go to a private school, and have a better insight into what the real world is like than the vast majority of state school kids. I've done the whole work experience thing, spent a month in Nicaragua building school buildings at a disabled children school (funded by my school), and have a general insight into how screwed the economy is and a pretty good relation to current affairs. More importantly as with the whole " privates dont get to know ethnic minorities well", i doubt any state school kids now saudis as well as i do =] [tad-late-warning:sarcasm may offend those sensitive to fun, humour or intolerable to the noun "joke"]
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Hopping Mad Kangaroo
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#113
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#113
(Original post by Bismarck)
Ah, so the mean rich people are stealing the university places of the poor? Clearly you've never seen how people who are unqualified for university do when they're let in anyway.

Why are you standing up for fascist dictatorship?
:rofl: Is that the best you can do, completely roll the argument into outrageous accusations? Lets face it, as ever you have no substance. Though going for the Fox News approach is low, even for you.

Now answer the question, explain why the dim but well educated student deserves to go to a top university, at the expense of someone bright who will make a useful contribution to society. You have no answer, do you? Be a man and admit to it.
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34253
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#114
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(Original post by 35mm_)
Such a disgusting attitude. What, in your opinion, classes a family as "scum"? Not enough money? A few more children than the norm? Who the hell are you to judge which families are worth "throwing good money at"?

So, in essence, you're supporting social class apartheid in schools?
If you wouldn't mind replying to my previous reply to you that would be great.

Here is what I would classify as a 'scum' family:
1. Several children, Several dads.
2. No discipline.
3. No work ethic in any of them.

These people are worthless to society and do nothing but drag it down. It is nothing to do with social class aparteid. If you come from a family with a work ethic and you're clever you shouldn't have to share a class with children who don't and won't learn, it's not fair. My friends and I are all from working class families, and we would have really excelled if grammar schools were still around.
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jen_biochem
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#115
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#115
(Original post by DougieG)
My parents could quite easily have afforded for me to go to private school. I went to the much better grammar school nearby, because I was fortunate enough to get a place there. There's nothing personal about it...
good for you.

(Original post by DougieG)
My argument is that you didn't deserve a better education than anyone else of higher intelligence but lower income. In fact, they would deserve it more. Your parents working hard has nothing to do with it, its not them that's getting the education.
why do i desereve it less than people of 'higher education but lower income?' I am hard working and always try to do my best.....no, it's not them getting the education, but they've worked hard for the money, so they should be allowed to spend it on what they want. Incidently, they wanted to spend it on good education for me. I don't see what's your problem here.
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Hopping Mad Kangaroo
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#116
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#116
(Original post by Turdburger)
I went to a very good private school. I was totally unready for the university style of learning. We were spoonfed to an extent. I got a 2.2 in first year a result. Took me a while to adjust to the style of learning in universitys (I then got a good first in 2nd year.) I would say this is not atypical for private school pupils.
You still had more of an advantage, I had to teach myself an A-level, meaning I would have missed out on the tips and tricks. At least you had the information neccesary to do well in the long run.
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Turdburger
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#117
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#117
(Original post by 35mm_)
Such a disgusting attitude. What, in your opinion, classes a family as "scum"? Not enough money? A few more children than the norm? Who the hell are you to judge which families are worth "throwing good money at"?

So, in essence, you're supporting social class apartheid in schools?
While I dont neccessarily think that educating my upper/middle class child with no lower class people is fair, im still going to do it as I care more for my child than other children.

Its a judgement call of liberty against equity. I will always favour liberty.
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headunderwater
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#118
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#118
(Original post by Bismarck)
According to you, being rich is the main criteria it seems.
Where have I ever equated being rich with scum? Unlike some people I don't judge somebody solely by their social class.
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Melz0r
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#119
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#119
(Original post by Elipsis)
It was slightly tongue in cheek. But if you have ever attended a state school you will realise that the families that these children come from are worthless scum, it is throwing good money at bad. I don't care why they are bad, I just care that they are and want my children away from them. The idea that everyone should be schooled together has already been a massive failure, instead of the rubbish kids getting better the good kids have just gotten worse.
If you have ever attended a state school?

All my life, love. Check the sig for how it turned out for me.
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JW92
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#120
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#120
(Original post by Bismarck)
A) Some pay more, some pay less. So, not it's not a reasonable assumption. But this isn't relevant to your point because of B:

B) Erm, if the best teachers are those why like teaching and not money, how would private schools paying more lead to them getting better teachers? Do try to remain consistent. It's not that hard.
If I were a teacher, I would like to work in a school with a better ethos, better pupils, better behaviour and better facilities. The pay cheque, of course, would be a bonus.

(Original post by Bismarck)
C) So you're going to force current private school teachers to work in public schools against their will? :confused: How blatantly fascist...
They can leave if they want, but as I said, I can't see every last private school teacher getting on a plane and leaving the UK.
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