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    (Original post by O-Ren)
    Paedophilia is paedophilia in any time period. Men are not programmed to be attracted to children and never have been as it is almost impossible to impregnate them. If it was a cultural practise I would imagine it had less to do with attraction to children and more to do with resentment of women and the desire for a wife that was wholly obedient, the best way to get that was marry a little child and indoctrinate her to your ways. And given that sex was only allowed within marriage they probably ****** the child just to get relief.
    Exactly. Even if she was unlucky enough to be a medical anomoly and have her period at the age of 9, he shouldn't have been attracted to her. The guy had dreams about her ffs. Sexual dreams about a 9 year old. I think I speak for 99% of sane healthy men when I say that when I look at a 9 year old I get the urge to protect, not a boner.
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    (Original post by O-Ren)
    Paedophilia is paedophilia in any time period.
    Not neccassarily. Societies change, social customs evolve and people's morals adapt their socio economic environment hence your claim is totally invalid.

    Men are not programmed to be attracted to children and never have been as it is almost impossible to impregnate them.
    It wasn't an issue of attraction or impregnation, it was common for tribal societies to intermarry in order to build and strengthen relations.

    If it was a cultural practise I would imagine it had less to do with attraction to children and more to do with resentment of women and the desire for a wife that was wholly obedient,
    This again is wholly moronic and more blindly emotional than rational or even accurate hence it doesn't deserve a proper response.

    the best way to get that was marry a little child and indoctrinate her to your ways. And given that sex was only allowed within marriage they probably ****** the child just to get relief.
    Why would he need someone to indoctrinate them through marriage?, clearly that defeats his purpose as a prophet would it not?
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    It doesn't matter whether she was 9 or an adult. The fact is it was acceptable in that area back then. We ourselves when we do something don't go "Oh, I wonder whether this will be classed as disgusting/unacceptable 1500 years from now?". We do it because it's acceptable NOW to do it.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    If they considered girls under the age of 15 a burden then that would be stated in the Quaran or the haddiths - it isn't. The duties of women on the battlefield were also different to that of men - men required strength to fight and lift equipment. Women just needed to be able to cook and tend wounds. I don't think many Muslims disagree that it is ok to marry a 13 year old as long as she is menstruating (indeed the Quaran/Haddith states that menstruation is the appropriate age to be allowed to marry). This means that many men in his army would have taken girls under 15 onto the battlefield, if they didn't because Mohammed said not to this would be stated in the Quaran/Haddiths.

    You also failed to address my second point: God told Mohammed so much knowledge to place in the Quaran - from how to brush your teeth, grow your beard, dress, pray, etc. Why wouldn't God have told him to state Aisha's age, given that it is causing so much trouble in this day and age? It is losing you countless followers, as well as countless potential followers. Not to mention it has caused many cases of paedophillia the world over, which all could have been stopped with one sentence - 'Aisha was 15 years old upon marrying Mohammed'.

    There are some serious holes in your logic if you think that the fact men weren't allowed to fight before 15 counters the other haddiths stating Aisha to be 9, as well as playing with dolls (something adults aren't allowed to do), when she married Mohammed.
    The hard boundaries for marriage is that a girl needs to have reached an age where she is menstruating, should be sane and not coerced.

    Aisha probably was not 9 years old, but the reason why I personally don't make a big deal out of it is that it is not very relevant, given that she could have been 9 years old.

    What is important for Muslims to keep in mind is that a lot of the "eww, Mohammed was a pedo" cretins don't care one way or another whether she was or wasn't, they only want a catch phrase and something to latch on to, truth or no truth.
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    (Original post by O-Ren)
    Paedophilia is paedophilia in any time period. Men are not programmed to be attracted to children and never have been as it is almost impossible to impregnate them. If it was a cultural practise I would imagine it had less to do with attraction to children and more to do with resentment of women and the desire for a wife that was wholly obedient, the best way to get that was marry a little child and indoctrinate her to your ways. And given that sex was only allowed within marriage they probably ****** the child just to get relief.
    To be fair he is only a paedophile by this law and many others. But, she wasn’t a ‘child’, per se. She had menstruated and at that time period this wasn’t a new phenomenon, in fact that illegalization of paedophilia is a new concept. If a psychologist analysed him, he wouldn’t be considered a paedophile. He had many other wives who were all younger and older than he was.
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    Not neccassarily. Societies change, social customs evolve and people's morals adapt their socio economic environment hence your claim is totally invalid.



    It wasn't an issue of attraction or impregnation, it was common for tribal societies to intermarry in order to build and strengthen relations.



    This again is wholly moronic and more blindly emotional than rational or even accurate hence it doesn't deserve a proper response.



    Why would he need someone to indoctrinate them, clearly that defeats his purpose as a prophet would it not?
    Socities do change, but shouldn't mohammed have been doing everything correct as the perfect example he supposidly is? So whatever time he was in he should have behaved exactly as he did then. If he married a child then, then the logic follows that if he was alive today he would feel it is entirely right to marry a child, would it not? Her socioeconomic environment was doubtless identical to how many Muslims live today, and it is only medical anomalies that come on at the age of 9. Even though they have come on their hips aren't wide enough, their breasts aren't developed, and their chances of survival are slim if they get pregnant. That's before we factor in mental issues.

    Furthermore, there was no intertribe power to be gained from marrying Aisha. Her father already submitted to Mohammed. He also had dreams about her, which alude to sexual attraction. It was completely unneccessary for him to marry her that young, as she had carers and he had ready access for indoctrination purposes. The only extra benefit of marriage is sex. The fact that he could bring himself to do that means he was a paedophile through and through. He claims these dreams were messages/inspriations/revelations from God to marry Aisha ASAP, but why would God (who knows everything we know today about mental and physical health) inspire him to marry a child?
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    Societies change, social customs evolve and people's morals adapt their socio economic environment hence your claim is totally invalid.
    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    It doesn't matter whether she was 9 or an adult. The fact is it was acceptable in that area back then. We ourselves when we do something don't go "Oh, I wonder whether this will be classed as disgusting/unacceptable 1500 years from now?". We do it because it's acceptable NOW to do it.
    The problem with such responses is that it hugely weakens, if not completely invalidates, the claim that we extract our morals from religious scripture.
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    ...
    I'm guessing you're not a science student, and the reference to indoctrination had nothing to do with religion. I meant indoctrinating her to obey without question.

    My point was, men have never been biologically attracted to children unless they have the mental illness that is paedophilia, you would not argue with this had you any knowledge of biology. Widespread child marriages happened for social reasons, another one I didn't mention was the family of the girl wanting to get rid of her as quickly as possible so it was one less mouth to feed.
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    I just got a neg rep, saying "nobody cares about brown people." Atleast, leave your name you racist scumbag.
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    (Original post by O-Ren)
    Paedophilia is paedophilia in any time period. Men are not programmed to be attracted to children and never have been as it is almost impossible to impregnate them. If it was a cultural practise I would imagine it had less to do with attraction to children and more to do with resentment of women and the desire for a wife that was wholly obedient, the best way to get that was marry a little child and indoctrinate her to your ways. And given that sex was only allowed within marriage they probably ****** the child just to get relief.
    Virtually all history unto this day disagrees with you. You're outnumbered. In todays society, sex with girls who have just reached puberty to me is a huge NO NO.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Socities do change, but shouldn't mohammed have been doing everything correct as the perfect example he supposidly is? So whatever time he was in he should have behaved exactly as he did then. If he married a child then, then the logic follows that if he was alive today he would feel it is entirely right to marry a child, would it not? Her socioeconomic environment was doubtless identical to how many Muslims live today, and it is only medical anomalies that come on at the age of 9. Even though they have come on their hips aren't wide enough, their breasts aren't developed, and their chances of survival are slim if they get pregnant. That's before we factor in mental issues.

    Furthermore, there was no intertribe power to be gained from marrying Aisha. Her father already submitted to Mohammed. He also had dreams about her, which alude to sexual attraction. It was completely unneccessary for him to marry her that young, as she had carers and he had ready access for indoctrination purposes. The only extra benefit of marriage is sex. The fact that he could bring himself to do that means he was a paedophile through and through. He claims these dreams were messages/inspriations/revelations from God to marry Aisha ASAP, but why would God (who knows everything we know today about mental and physical health) inspire him to marry a child?
    Read my previous comment on the previous page with the links.

    Muhammad pbuh was married to a woman that was 15 years older than him. He was 25, she was 40.
    Some Islamic sources say that he was also married to a woman who was around 60-80 years old and very overweight. lol
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    (Original post by Dirac Delta Function)
    The hard boundaries for marriage is that a girl needs to have reached an age where she is menstruating, should be sane and not coerced.

    Aisha probably was not 9 years old, but the reason why I personally don't make a big deal out of it is that it is not very relevant, given that she could have been 9 years old.

    What is important for Muslims to keep in mind is that a lot of the "eww, Mohammed was a pedo" cretins don't care one way or another whether she was or wasn't, they only want a catch phrase and something to latch on to, truth or no truth.
    She wasn't bought to Mohammed as an offer, he dreamt about her and then went to her dad and asked/forced him to let him marry her. If she was menstruating at the age of 9 (the odds of which are millions:1) this wouldn't mean that she wouldn't look like a child. He had sex with someone who looked like a child, and these fools follow his every word. Normal men shouldn't be attracted to children.
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    (Original post by GodspeedGehenna)
    Who the **** is Aisha and why should I care?
    She was an prepubescent girl Mohammed molested.
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    (Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
    To be fair he is only a paedophile by this law and many others. But, she wasn’t a ‘child’, per se. She had menstruated and at that time period this wasn’t a new phenomenon, in fact that illegalization of paedophilia is a new concept. If a psychologist analysed him, he wouldn’t be considered a paedophile. He had many other wives who were all younger and older than he was.
    My point was that attraction to children has always been an unnatural mental illness, but that just because a man married a child doesn't mean he was a paedophile. Child marriages were common for social reasons, and given that it was considered 'wrong' to have sex outside marriage, it is hardly surprising that these repressed sex-starved men ended up having sex with their child brides.

    If he was attracted to her when she just started menstruating he would be a hebophile rather than a paedophile, but we don't even know if he was sexually attracted to her. Marriages were nothing more than business arrangements back then.
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    (Original post by Lizzie-Harrison)
    Who's that quote from?
    Another idiot
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    (Original post by agolati)
    Read my previous comment on the previous page with the links.

    Muhammad pbuh was married to a woman that was 15 years older than him. He was 25, she was 40.
    Some Islamic sources say that he was also married to a woman who was around 60-80 years old and very overweight. lol
    This clearly wasn't a marriage of convinience. He often proclaimed his adoration and love of her, proclaiming she was his favourite wife. I don't doubt that he did marry people for tribal reasons, however there were no tribal factors involved with Mo marrying Aisha because her father was already a follower of Mohammed.
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    (Original post by agolati)
    Virtually all history unto this day disagrees with you. You're outnumbered. In todays society, sex with girls who have just reached puberty to me is a huge NO NO.
    It’s a ‘nono’ because of the countries law or social stigma. If a country allows it such as Saudi Arabia, then, Islamically he is still allowed.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    She wasn't bought to Mohammed as an offer, he dreamt about her and then went to her dad and asked/forced him to let him marry her. If she was menstruating at the age of 9 (the odds of which are millions:1) this wouldn't mean that she wouldn't look like a child. He had sex with someone who looked like a child, and these fools follow his every word. Normal men shouldn't be attracted to children.
    The bolded part is completely off. It's actually not uncommon for girls to menstruate near that age, or even younger.

    As to the rest of what you are saying, it's based on claims made by various people about what the Prophet said, it has no more historical tangibility than that. If it was fabricated then accepted as part of the folklore, it probably would not have been questioned.

    In the end it doesn't matter, because a menstruating girl is allowed to get married, even if she is 9 years old.
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    (Original post by O-Ren)
    My point was that attraction to children has always been an unnatural mental illness, but that just because a man married a child doesn't mean he was a paedophile. Child marriages were common for social reasons, and given that it was considered 'wrong' to have sex outside marriage, it is hardly surprising that these repressed sex-starved men ended up having sex with their child brides.

    If he was attracted to her when she just started menstruating he would be a hebophile rather than a paedophile, but we don't even know if he was sexually attracted to her. Marriages were nothing more than business arrangements back then.
    I agree, to an extent, but generally agree.
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    (Original post by agolati)
    Virtually all history unto this day disagrees with you. You're outnumbered. In todays society, sex with girls who have just reached puberty to me is a huge NO NO.
    Excuse me? Did you mean to quote me?

    I'm not sure what's going on here.
 
 
 
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