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We're gonna shake London once again - 30th November - everyone should come! Watch

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    (Original post by stinkfist)
    Most people on here are ****ing tools. Spineless, two bit, worthless tools.

    I wish you were all dead. The stench of your utter patheticness makes me feel sick.
    Clearly you are very sick, don't worry the nice men in the white coats will be with you shortly.
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    University is not a luxury, we supposedly live in a meritocracy (correct me if i'm wrong) so therefore it shouldn't be based on whether or not your parents can afford to pack you off there.

    Fortunately my dad can afford the fee's, but I will still be heading to Manchester on Tuesday to protest against it because I know many aren't as fortunate. The idea that this whole scheme will save the nation massive amounts is completely idiotic as people have already explained on here, in the long haul it's going to worsen the nations debt.
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    (Original post by Swell)
    University is not a luxury, we supposedly live in a meritocracy (correct me if i'm wrong) so therefore it shouldn't be based on whether or not your parents can afford to pack you off there.

    Fortunately my dad can afford the fee's, but I will still be heading to Manchester on Tuesday to protest against it because I know many aren't as fortunate. The idea that this whole scheme will save the nation massive amounts is completely idiotic as people have already explained on here, in the long haul it's going to worsen the nations debt.
    The new system isn't about whether mummy and daddy can afford the fees, it is about working hard getting a good degree and then you the graduate pay back the loan for fees as follows:

    Gross annual salaries:

    £21k - you back back zero

    £25K - you pay back £30 per month

    £30k - you pay back £68 per month

    £40k - you pay back £143 per month

    £50k - you pay back £218 per month

    £60k - you pay back £293 per month

    and so on.
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    (Original post by aeonflux)
    Yes it is. Studies show that, on average, a graduate will earn an extra £250,000 over a lifetime than a non-graduate. That adds up to a lot of extra tax, far more, in fact, than the cost to the government of subsidising degrees.

    Extra tax, which will pay for the areas covered by tax, what you ignore is they also have a lot more disposable income, regardless of whether they end up paying their own uni fees.


    Thats how pretty much all welfare works and always has worked. Take pensions for example. Throughout your working life you will pay tax and NI contributions which will fund the older generations pensions and healthcare. When you come to retire, the younger generation will pay your pensions and healthcare through their taxes. If you think about, it makes quite a lot of sense.

    Yes, because those people have worked their whole life and are now at the point where it is impracticle/impossible for them to continue working.


    Not really, because as I said, students, on average, will pay more taxes over the course of their lifetime than everyone else will anyway. They are already effectively paying back the cost of their education through greater tax payments - the current system makes students pay twice.

    Not really, everyone (regardless of whether or not they went to uni) are paying for your education. Not all of the wealthy went to uni, yet they would still have to pay for you.

    Ok, lets take your argument a little bit further. Like university, 6th form is optional. Following your logic, students who choose to stay on a 6th form should also have to pay the cost of that too. Where does it end?

    There's a simple line here. 6th Form is populated with under 18s. University has adults. You're a big boy/girl now. Pay your own way.


    You could of course apply your idiotic logic to any public service - why should I pay for someone elses healthcare when it benefits them, why should I pay for anyone elses pensions when it benefits them, and so on ad infinitum.

    Because you cannot predict when you will require healthcare, and the cost of peoples treatment can vary greatly - if the system didn't work like that there would arise situations where people couldn't afford their treatment. People are more useful alive.

    What you don't seem to realise is that a highly educated populace is for the benefit of the nation.

    And? Through this system people can still gain degrees and benefit the nation.

    See "College graduates are also more likely than others to engage in behaviors that improve their health. Additionally, society reaps significant rewards when a higher percentage of its residents have postsecondary education, the study shows. Higher rates of volunteering, voting and donating blood correspond to higher levels of education as do lower unemployment and poverty rates. Similarly, socially valuable behaviors, such as tolerance for the opinions of others, seem to increase with education. A more educated workforce also would lead to higher wages for all."

    And here, for example.

    Also, better healthcare leads to people living longer!
    Also, a form of law enforcement holds society together, reducing crime and increasing both the quality and length of life!
    Ok, so all you've proved through this post is that you feel that you're so special that everyone else should pay what the system already enables you to pay with ease.

    The only social divide that can occur is through idiots scaremongering that the 'debt' is unnafordable - when anyone can get the loan and pay it off with ease.

    If you can survive with the current fees you'll survive with the new system.

    But of course, what with you being so superior to we mere non-grads, perhaps we should take our place under your boot?
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    (Original post by W.H.T)
    So people should only protest if it affects them.....a bit selfish eh?

    You do know right, that people often protest about things that won't affect them, for example the Iraq war. Thats because most people have this thing called a conscience.
    Really? Choosing to fight for the option that leaves them and their ilk free of any debt while lumping the extra burden onto other public sectors such as defence and the emergency services, causing a greater detriment to the whole nation just so they don't have to enter into a system which won't really harm them any more than the current system. A system that will be more likely to better fund universities allowing them to offer better facilities to new students?

    You call that a conscience?

    Honesltly people - It takes about 30 years to square away the debt you accumulate already. Regardless of how much debt you rack up it's written off after 30 years anyway!
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    Social anarchists are so bloody annoying.
    If one believes that metaphorically kicking and screaming will get them their own way, they are gravely mistaken.
    Not only will the protests be of little (if any) consequence, but it will also highlight to the average taxpayer that students are irresponsible, and to people who (let's be honest, mostly) attend top universities, that they all need to put down the Marxist works and buy some sodding shampoo.
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    Any chance of changing the date? There's a tube strike on Monday so if you start causing bus diversions when tempers are already frayed... basically, I'd like to be able to get to work without fighting off angry commuters for once :P
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    (Original post by Shortarse1)
    Really? Choosing to fight for the option that leaves them and their ilk free of any debt while lumping the extra burden onto other public sectors such as defence and the emergency services, causing a greater detriment to the whole nation just so they don't have to enter into a system which won't really harm them any more than the current system. A system that will be more likely to better fund universities allowing them to offer better facilities to new students?
    You call that a conscience?

    Honesltly people - It takes about 30 years to square away the debt you accumulate already. Regardless of how much debt you rack up it's written off after 30 years anyway!
    OH please, you really believe that this will result in better facilities for universities?

    The plan is that the burden of funding will be shifted onto students. With this, the best we can hope, is for qualities to stay about the same as they are now. I hardly think that having to suddenly pay up to three times more in fees yet receive the same in the return, is a good deal.
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    If you're so bothered about your education, go to your lectures instead of stupid protests.
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    (Original post by W.H.T)
    OH please, you really believe that this will result in better facilities for universities?

    The plan is that the burden of funding will be shifted onto students. With this, the best we can hope, is for qualities to stay about the same as they are now. I hardly think that having to suddenly pay up to three times more in fees yet receive the same in the return, is a good deal.
    Fees may only be raised to £6000 - to raise them to £9000 the uni will have to make an application with an independent body showing what facilities the extra 3k will be invested in.

    So £6000 covers the fees - £3000 will go to improvements.
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    I'm washing my hair.
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    (Original post by Belle-x)
    If you're so bothered about your education, go to your lectures instead of stupid protests.
    Its not their education that are bothered about. It's those who start Uni in 2012+ that they are worried about.
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    I want to live in a better world.
    I 'm going on Tuesday and the next one and the one after that and as many anti -cuts demo's that I need to before the government capitulates.
    In my opinion it is somewhat short sighted to see this as only a student fee issue.
    If the government can get away with cutting several hundred thousand public sector jobs in the fire service in transport to name but a few this will lead to many other private sector jobs being lost.
    What sort of future is that to look for any of us to look forward?
    I firmly believe that students should support workers whether in work or on benefits whether that is through lack of available work or illness need to support the less well off such as disabled people and single mothers etc etc and these people in turn need to support the students.
    We have to show solidarity to all in the fight against this horrible government austerity cuts.
    The economic crisis is not our fault and we should refuse to pay for it with our education, our jobs and our public services.
    This is far more that just a student fee issue.
    Education should be free and it could be if we worked to get rid of this capitalist system and taxed the rich exploitative big industries and financial institutions that have got off almost scot-free for far to long.
    They get richer while we get poorer.
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    (Original post by charlotesometimes)
    I want to live in a better world.
    I 'm going on Tuesday and the next one and the one after that and as many anti -cuts demo's that I need to before the government capitulates.
    In my opinion it is somewhat short sighted to see this as only a student fee issue.
    If the government can get away with cutting several hundred thousand public sector jobs in the fire service in transport to name but a few this will lead to many other private sector jobs being lost.
    What sort of future is that to look for any of us to look forward?
    I firmly believe that students should support workers whether in work or on benefits whether that is through lack of available work or illness need to support the less well off such as disabled people and single mothers etc etc and these people in turn need to support the students.
    We have to show solidarity to all in the fight against this horrible government austerity cuts.
    The economic crisis is not our fault and we should refuse to pay for it with our education, our jobs and our public services.
    This is far more that just a student fee issue.
    Education should be free and it could be if we worked to get rid of this capitalist system and taxed the rich exploitative big industries and financial institutions that have got off almost scot-free for far to long.
    They get richer while we get poorer.
    Here here, I hear you sister.

    Although you wont get much support from the fascists on here.

    Out of interest; which demo are you attending on Tuesday?
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    Trafalgar sq .
    And you will you be able to make one on Tuesday?
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    You'll find a guide to the walk outs here.

    http://www.socialistrevolution.org/
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    And I look forward to seeing any violent protesters beaten by the police. You realise being violent will just cause the police to do what they did last time and hold you back rather than letting you march?

    Also from what I have heard the government is just getting annoyed, judging by some of the morons that have been interviewed its pretty clear they do not understand the system that will be brought in. There were even morons protesting fees in general? Why try and blame that on the tories go trash Labour's HQ.
    This is the one thing that annoys me about the student protests
    1) The association with the Labour Party and the Unions. (The Unions less so, but one thing leads to another and it practically becomes the Labour Party).
    2) The lack of blame directed at Labour, with the old bull**** about the evil tories etc. etc.

    I don't even mind the violence or whatever, its kind of inevitable considering the circumstances (sometimes)... just the presence of Labour vermin in the background pulling the strings pisses me off.
    • PS Helper
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    bunch of bloody idiots! making the rest of us look ridiculous as well! get a grip!
    no need for violence and smashing things up is hardly gonna get you what you want!!! tools!
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    Someone should meet me, I want to go but all the people at my college are indifferent and I don't want to go alone. :|
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    What i saw last time live on TV:

    Central London: RIOOOOTTTTT, FIIIREEEEE, DEFACE THE POLICE VANN
    Cambridge: Aggresive tea party
 
 
 
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