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Why must people continue to insist the fees prevent poorer students from goin to uni? Watch

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    (Original post by .Ali.)
    No, uni is for the academically privellaged only. Whether they be rich or poor.
    Yes and i suppose you think the 'not so smart' can go for vocations, perhaps live off benefits and work as the littermen of society - because ofcourse university is just not for them - they must be excluded
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    If uni costs £9000 a year and you get say 18 hours of teaching a week for 40 weeks, that works out at £12.50 an hour and many people are willing to pay twice that for a tutor for A Levels. I honestly have to say £9000 a year is how much it should have always been. We can't have over a hundred universities majority state funded. That will and has never worked.
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    (Original post by ammaarahsaid)
    Everyone should have the right of pursuing their dreams and living a better life.
    For 'poorer people' this usually means having a better education - going to uni - having a good job.
    [I do realize its usually not so straight forward]
    However smart, dumb, poor or rich you are... you still need the grades to get into uni in the first place.
    And uni is still a privilege.
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    (Original post by Syko)
    You smirk at the fact that is it 40k of debt, but when you are on a low paid job as most graduates who come out of University are, as well as having to pay for living costs, which DONT come with the student loan, as well as property prices which will once again balloon as the country comes out of recession means that it's a huge chunk of money to have hanging over your head!
    If you're on a low paid job (ie below £21k) you won't have to pay anything, it's as if the loan doesn't exist. If you start earning more only then do you begin to pay so what's the problem? With reference to '£40 hanging over your head', if you're poor then there's no way you'd pay it back so the loan is in reality loads smaller than that.

    Please reply I want to understand your reasoning!
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    (Original post by ammaarahsaid)
    Yes and i suppose you think the 'not so smart' can go for vocations, perhaps live off benefits and work as the littermen of society - because ofcourse university is just not for them - they must be excluded
    Not live off benefits, but get a more manual job, sure. University isn't for the 'not so smart'. Why on Earth should it be? :lolwut:
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    (Original post by chloeee!)
    AND, look at other countries. We have it good.
    Yes, everyone should feel sorry for those poor North Europeans and their free univeristies...
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    (Original post by BeyondandAbove)
    However smart, dumb, poor or rich you are... you still need the grades to get into uni in the first place.
    And uni is still a privilege.
    I do agree with you, the grades are needed
    but a lot of courses don't have minimum requirements of AAAA or thereabouts
    and i believe its relatively easy to get into courses which have much lower requirements - these are courses that a lot of people including those from 'poorer backgrounds' do apply for
    I'm merely arguing that a rise in student fees and fears of debt accumalation would seriously deter those from poorer backgrounds into applying for uni
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    (Original post by .Ali.)
    Not live off benefits, but get a more manual job, sure. University isn't for the 'not so smart'. Why on Earth should it be? :lolwut:
    maybe our interpretations of the word 'smart' differ
    but i can assure you that those doing much more manual jobs like dustbin men, park wardens, security guards etc do recieve a degree of financial help from the government
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    (Original post by ammaarahsaid)
    maybe our interpretations of the word 'smart' differ
    but i can assure you that those doing much more manual jobs like dustbin men, park wardens, security guards etc do recieve a degree of financial help from the government
    Some do yes. Not all menial jobs require government subsidies though.
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    (Original post by ammaarahsaid)
    maybe our interpretations of the word 'smart' differ
    but i can assure you that those doing much more manual jobs like dustbin men, park wardens, security guards etc do recieve a degree of financial help from the government
    meaning some form of benefits
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    (Original post by ammaarahsaid)
    I do agree with you, the grades are needed
    but a lot of courses don't have minimum requirements of AAAA or thereabouts
    and i believe its relatively easy to get into courses which have much lower requirements - these are courses that a lot of people including those from 'poorer backgrounds' do apply for
    I'm merely arguing that a rise in student fees and fears of debt accumalation would seriously deter those from poorer backgrounds into applying for uni
    Speaking as someone from a "poorer background" - tough. If you don't think university will be worth £18k odd (I'm sure some degrees will cost even less than that) to your life, then you have no business going anyway.

    Student debt is stupidly manageable, and doesn't affect any other credit you might want, so the only people who it should be putting off are the people not taking it seriously anyway.
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    People say things like this because nobody has told them otherwise, I mean only two days ago the news surfaced of yet another addition to this policy, and I havn't got a clue at how much I would pay back per week/month as a graduate, as again nobody has told me. All you hear about is the £6,000 or £9,000 a year, no wonder people feel put off by the Policy. Huge sums of money.

    Then theres the whole fuss surrounding it, MP's being threatened of losing their jobs the countless U-Turns by Vince and co.

    Besides, when you look at the wage: £21,000, thats £5,000 below the National average, .ALI. should know something about that
    In that situation another £40 is alot of money, especially considering trying to break onto the housing market, tax and all the rest.
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    (Original post by .Ali.)
    Some do yes. Not all menial jobs require government subsidies though.
    Most do
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    (Original post by im so academic)
    And by a low-paid job you mean one under £21,000? You don't pay a penny.

    (In fact, those people would be better off as it was £15,000 under the old system).
    This you see is why the new system would actually benefit me. I will earn over £15,00 which is the point I will have to start paying at as I'm starting in 2011 however I might not earn over £21,000 and if I did then I probably wouldn't have paid it off before it gets cancelled. It's not like you have to pay the fees up front anyway.
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    (Original post by Get Real)
    People say things like this because nobody has told them otherwise, I mean only two days ago the news surfaced of yet another addition to this policy, and I havn't got a clue at how much I would pay back per week/month as a graduate, as again nobody has told me. All you hear about is the £6,000 or £9,000 a year, no wonder people feel put off by the Policy. Huge sums of money.

    Then theres the whole fuss surrounding it, MP's being threatened of losing their jobs the countless U-Turns by Vince and co.

    Besides, when you look at the wage: £21,000, thats £5,000 below the National average, .ALI. should know something about that
    In that situation another £40 is alot of money, especially considering trying to break onto the housing market, tax and all the rest.
    I thought the whole point was this is putting off poor people? If that is the case, £21k will not feel like "£5k below the national average" - it will be a big step up.
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    (Original post by chaz1992)
    If uni costs £9000 a year and you get say 18 hours of teaching a week for 40 weeks, that works out at £12.50 an hour and many people are willing to pay twice that for a tutor for A Levels. I honestly have to say £9000 a year is how much it should have always been. We can't have over a hundred universities majority state funded. That will and has never worked.
    And how many people get A level tutors? Most people don't have A level tutors because they can't afford them so I don't understand your logic. It has worked in the past ask Clegg and Cameron. No I don't believe that university should be free but £9000 is far too much in my opinion. Some universities don't even give you 18 hours contact time a week.
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    (Original post by callum9999)
    Speaking as someone from a "poorer background" - tough. If you don't think university will be worth £18k odd (I'm sure some degrees will cost even less than that) to your life, then you have no business going anyway.

    Student debt is stupidly manageable, and doesn't affect any other credit you might want, so the only people who it should be putting off are the people not taking it seriously anyway.
    Perceptions of student debt differ - not everybody would see it as "stupidly manageable" - those from 'poorer backgrounds' may see it as a black hole and therefore may be deterred from applying for a degree - nevertheless a education is invaluable therefore hopefully people do take it seriously and take on the debt if they can - i know i would - but everybody is different - its called empathizing.
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    (Original post by ammaarahsaid)
    Perceptions of student debt differ - not everybody would see it as "stupidly manageable" - those from 'poorer backgrounds' may see it as a black hole and therefore may be deterred from applying for a degree - nevertheless a education is invaluable therefore hopefully people do take it seriously and take on the debt if they can - i know i would - but everybody is different - its called empathizing.
    How is it called empathising? I'm in the exact same position as them - I'm just not blinded by big numbers and am able to analyse information, something I'd hope any prospective university student could do. If they saw it as a "black hole" then they really are clueless.
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    (Original post by callum9999)
    I thought the whole point was this is putting off poor people? If that is the case, £21k will not feel like "£5k below the national average" - it will be a big step up.
    Well it does, I was simply speaking from the perception of most people. But I would like to know how much I was paying back, because frankly I could go an work at a local factory and earn £30,000 a year straight away. Not having to pay any Tuiton Fees back, and whilst others are getting £40,000 in debt I've earn £90,000 in the same time.
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    (Original post by Qaz25)
    So you propose that it's okay because you have to earn £21,000 to start paying? So therefore we should all remain on salaries of less than £21,000 until we're 50?

    I'm sorry.... but house prices are going up, living costs going up, tax going up, jobs are being cut... so yeh it's like that they'll start off earning less than £21,000.... but a salary lower than £21,000 barely gets you anywhere in life... especially if you have to raise a family later in life.

    I don't expect to stick to a low paid job so that I don't have to pay my student loan off :facepalm:

    Now tell me that I don't have to worry :rolleyes:
    Doesn't that defeat the object? If you're earning more, you should be able to pay more anyway! eg earning a very high salary of £40k you'll be paying back £1,710 a year, a hardly huge sum out of that salary!


    (Original post by Doubledog)
    YES, watch for it-a few years down the line the measure of inflation will be changed again so the interest rate on the loan goes up. The government is already talking about changing the way cpi is calculated.
    Watch out for penalties for late payments or later on changes to the 21k threshold, or it not being fully uprated for inflation.
    Work out how much interest someone is going to pay over 30 years...
    Late payment fees? It comes out of your income, like a tax...


    (Original post by Jokercard)
    Don't see what all the fuss is about to be honest, people need to stop doing useless degrees in golfing, sports science and feelings. Start doing degrees that are helpful to all of us, like surveying and engineering, which will land you in a job once you finish university.

    Fees will never stop people who want to go university from going university. With these changes we might finally see students taking an educated decision and putting some real thought into their career paths, making sure they choose a course knowing their going to land a job after graduation.
    Why would it matter whether you're going to get a job after uni or not? Taking the loans is not a gamble as you know that you only pay what you can afford; get a low paying job or none at all after a crap degree and no loan will be paid back!


    (Original post by killerhales)
    Most of us on this site are from pretty comfortable backgrounds. I'd like to hear more from those on here who are worried about a $30-40k "debt", whatever the fine print.
    My household income is around £11k and I'm not worried about the 'debt' - why should I be?

    (Original post by ammaarahsaid)
    If i was from a poorer background and i wanted to do a degree in say something like 'history' i wouldnt because of the fear of debt
    however if i was competent enough for medicine i would because i would be unlikely to be in future debt
    .
    As I said above, it's not a 'gamble' taking out the loan. If you want to do a history degree but are worried about getting a job afterwards, why would it matter that you have a student loan? If you're unlucky and don't get a job, then you don't pay the loan. Or if you get a low paying job you won't pay much back either. It's only if you do well that you have to pay much of the loan back at all.

    (Original post by aprilterri)
    because it will prevent poor people from going. It will do this in the sense that people who have been poor most of their life who have seen the affect of debt will be more reluctant to attend university as they see debt as debt. The current fees already put people off. Even earning £21k is not a lot of money especially if you are raising a family on it. Having to pay back that amount of money could have a serious affect on your quality of life, look at someone who say loses child benefit once their child leaves school even that little amount from wages can have a large affect on ones finances.
    If (as per your example) somebody was earning just above £21k then they would NEVER have to pay back all of the debt. Let's say somebody doesn't benefit much from uni and is earning £22k. They'd pay back £90 a year, or £2,700 before the loan is wiped off after 30 years. They're actually better off than current students as the limit has been raised from £15k to £21k.

    (Original post by ammaarahsaid)
    Perceptions of student debt differ - not everybody would see it as "stupidly manageable" - those from 'poorer backgrounds' may see it as a black hole and therefore may be deterred from applying for a degree - nevertheless a education is invaluable therefore hopefully people do take it seriously and take on the debt if they can - i know i would - but everybody is different - its called empathizing.
    They are only deterred because the media portrays it as a horrible debt when it really isn't

    (Original post by Get Real)
    People say things like this because nobody has told them otherwise, I mean only two days ago the news surfaced of yet another addition to this policy, and I havn't got a clue at how much I would pay back per week/month as a graduate, as again nobody has told me. All you hear about is the £6,000 or £9,000 a year, no wonder people feel put off by the Policy. Huge sums of money.
    Here you go: http://blog.moneysavingexpert.com/20...ons-education/

    Earnings _Annual Repayments now _Annual Repayments under proposals
    £15,000 __ Nothing _______________Nothing
    £16,000 ___ £90 __________________Nothing
    £21,000 ___£540 _________________Nothing
    £22,000 ___£630 ________________£90
    £30,000 ___£1,350 _______________£810
    £40,000 ___£2,250 ________________£1,710
    £50,000 ___£3,150 ________________£2,610
 
 
 
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