Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Norfolkadam)
    The 9k will be paid on an interest-free loan that you don't have to pay back until you're earning £21k.
    It isn't interest-free.

    (Original post by Norfolkadam)
    The fact is when you apply to University you don't see it as 30k of debt
    Maybe for those who are used to having money around. But for people from poorer backgrounds, they do certainly see it as a 30k debt.

    (Original post by Norfolkadam)
    University is the first time when young people take on their own financial responsibility separate from their parents. I advocate a flat-rate maintenance loan and grant which covers living costs adequately without looking at the parent's income. I know quite a few upper-middle-class kids at Uni and, admittedly, some of them do get money from home but none of them are having their tuition fees paid for.
    But surely that is unfair for the people from poorer backgrounds? The upper class kids will probably have their accommodation paid for them, so the poorer kids will end up struggling a lot more.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Monkeyuncle)
    Hope your happy Thatcher, Now the Tories may have destroyed MY Future, Yes I may be in year 9 but this is something that may continue into when I am going to university IF I manage to go because of the money. This is why when I am old enough to vote I will NEVER vote tory for what has just happened and for many reasons you would know yourself. Tories have destroyed many bright futures for students, And will continue to do if you are ever voted again. I hope the tories happy and I hope that the tories will never be voted again..
    If your future is "destroyed" because you don't want to pay back to the country even when it is being enforced only when you are able to then it really isn't a big loss to the country.
    • Offline

      15
      (Original post by WelshBluebird)
      It isn't interest-free.
      You're quite right, I knew that too. It is a very favourable rate though.



      Maybe for those who are used to having money around. But for people from poorer backgrounds, they do certainly see it as a 30k debt.
      I dislike using anecdotal evidence but I'm from a poor background as are my friends and my family and, I know, for a fact, that this will not put anyone off going to University who's got their heart set on it.

      But surely that is unfair for the people from poorer backgrounds? The upper class kids will probably have their accommodation paid for them, so the poorer kids will end up struggling a lot more
      Why would poorer kids end up struggling more?
      Offline

      2
      ReputationRep:
      (Original post by Norfolkadam)
      You're quite right, I knew that too. It is a very favourable rate though.

      I dislike using anecdotal evidence but I'm from a poor background as are my friends and my family and, I know, for a fact, that this will not put anyone off going to University who's got their heart set on it.

      Why would poorer kids end up struggling more?
      "A favorable rate" is still interest though.

      As for anecdotal evidence, I can do the same. I'm from a normal working class background (one of the most deprived parts of the UK apparently) and i know for a fact possible debts of £40k+ WOULD deter people from university. Even myself, who has been set on doing CS at uni since I was quite young, I really don't know if I would have gone if I had to pay the higher fees. I really don't. And that is coming from someone who has always been set on it.

      And why? If you are giving everyone the same amount of loan for living costs, then of course poorer kids will struggle more. Upper class / richer kids tend to have their accommodation paid by their parents, so they'd end up with a lot more spending money than a poorer person who has to pay for their accommodation out of their living cost loan.

      I realize not all do pay for their kids accommodation, but in my experience an awful lot do. A common theme when talking to people in the "posher" halls at Bath Uni about how they are affording a stupid high rent is that "my parent's are paying for it, so it doesn't matter".
      Offline

      11
      ReputationRep:
      I think we should just go all Poll Tax Riot on the government's ass.


      Yes, the way the students acted was rather controversial but the police have acted in a manner which is also disgusting - I saw horses running into crowds, people being beaten when they were already down on the TV! I'm not surprised the protesters act like this when the police do things like that.
      Offline

      0
      ReputationRep:
      Yes, less dosser students more change the world for the better students!
      Offline

      0
      ReputationRep:
      (Original post by mellie220)
      I think we should just go all Poll Tax Riot on the government's ass.


      Yes, the way the students acted was rather controversial but the police have acted in a manner which is also disgusting - I saw horses running into crowds, people being beaten when they were already down on the TV! I'm not surprised the protesters act like this when the police do things like that.

      It was pretty bad I have to agree. To be fair though, you could see the cringeworthy chavs in balaclavas talking smack and giving the police the finger saying FTM! I wouldn't have minded if the police had charged them! :P
      Offline

      10
      ReputationRep:
      I'm completely against the violence and vandalism, but I do give credit to all the people who are out on the streets protesting peacefully. Too often in this country we complain about things but do nothing, good to see people still have some fight in them.
      Offline

      1
      ReputationRep:
      (Original post by im so academic)
      :five:

      Tbh, I really can't people people thought protesting would change their minds. Absolutely pathetic.
      err better to fight for what you believe than to moan about how you want things to change. wow.
      Offline

      0
      ReputationRep:
      (Original post by WelshBluebird)
      "A favorable rate" is still interest though.

      As for anecdotal evidence, I can do the same. I'm from a normal working class background (one of the most deprived parts of the UK apparently) and i know for a fact possible debts of £40k+ WOULD deter people from university. Even myself, who has been set on doing CS at uni since I was quite young, I really don't know if I would have gone if I had to pay the higher fees. I really don't. And that is coming from someone who has always been set on it.

      And why? If you are giving everyone the same amount of loan for living costs, then of course poorer kids will struggle more. Upper class / richer kids tend to have their accommodation paid by their parents, so they'd end up with a lot more spending money than a poorer person who has to pay for their accommodation out of their living cost loan.

      I realize not all do pay for their kids accommodation, but in my experience an awful lot do. A common theme when talking to people in the "posher" halls at Bath Uni about how they are affording a stupid high rent is that "my parent's are paying for it, so it doesn't matter".
      IF you're not confident of paying off your debts, then why would you go to university in the first place?
      • Offline

        14
        It's over, folks. Stop protesting, go home and keep warm. You've lost and, yet again, the actions of a few violent hippies make the whole movement look ridiculous and asinine to the general public. Apologies to those peaceful protesters who have been caught up in this and whose voices have been drowned out by the sounds of windows breaking and chavs yelling.

        (Original post by Margaret Thatcher)
        You wasted your time, damaged property, injured people, disgusted the taxpayer - all for nothing. Zilch.

        The vote went through. Tuition fees have been raised.

        If anything, it's made the government's position stronger - as they now have the taxpayer on side, as most taxpayers have been disgusted by the violent acts.
        This x infinity. These changes are much needed and the current system was unsustainable; however, as we are of an unfortunate, bovine generation which seems to be used to demanding something for nothing, ranting like a spoilt child when we don't get it, everybody just has to go to University.

        Yup, because what this country really needs is a load of Hotel Management and David Beckham graduates to see us through the recession where the UK has never been weaker and more of a laughing stock.

        Raise the fees, and take it further by restructuring the whole system; maybe now, with reduced student numbers, we will see universities becoming leaner, more efficient and focussing directly on what is in demand as opposed to a Joint Honours in Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck. Similarly, why do so many high ranking university officials need to earn £200k+ in a year?

        Even if you disagree, you need the IQ of a potato to not be able to see that the university system is in bad shape.

        (Original post by missygeorgia)
        We are the taxpayers.
        Dear God, I can see you haven't evolved any since our last discussion.

        Employer's NI affects pretty much everyone so, yes, you pay that (providing your earnings are £100+ per week) as with every other worker drone out there. This is not considered "tax" by the definition of the word as you get a share of it returned upon your retirement, by way of the State Pension. The only other return you get on your tax is when the government spends it on things designed to make your life more fulfilled, Citizen.

        Student loans are untaxable but are subject to interest during the repayment cycle. If a company employs a student, then they can pay up to a personal allowance of £6475 gross p.a. (hint: unless you're running your own business you're unlikely to make anything approaching this as a student) without even taking PAYE. Failing that, you can file a claim with HMRC within five years of initial payment in order to have it all refunded.

        If you are a student who only works through the holidays, then you are entirely tax exempt or at least eligible for a refund.

        As an aside, how much tax have you paid this year? Hint: I've answered this question for you already, and think of it as figurative rather than literal.

        (Original post by sofee)
        the anti-war protesters in the 60s also failed...but everyone worships them
        No, they don't. I for one most certainly don't.

        If you participate in democracy you, consequentially, accept what your government gives you. That sounds like a paradox, right?

        (Original post by Lewroll)
        Yes we failed, however one thing is for sure, neither the torys or the libdems will be voted in in the next general election (i doubt the libs will ever be voted in now)
        Sorry, my sides split.

        Oh, and good luck on persuading Labour to roll back the changes (hint: they won't). Remember they introduced tuition fees in the first place...

        (Original post by white_haired_wizard)
        This is the end of the Lib Dems now. The end of Clegg and co. To break their manifesto promises and to go through with such a massive policy shift...

        cheerio.
        End of the Lib Dems? Yes please, I am sick of hearing about how they are the Light and the Resurrection. They have openly lied to their supporters and done a handbrake turn on one of their promises. You fell for Nick Clegg's propaganda and his aura of being some kind of Messiah - if you are honestly stupid enough to fall for that, then these fee rises mean nothing to you because you are too thick to attend university in any case.

        Where is your God now?

        (Original post by Monkeyuncle)
        Hope your happy Thatcher, Now the Tories may have destroyed MY Future, Yes I may be in year 9 but this is something that may continue into when I am going to university IF I manage to go because of the money. This is why when I am old enough to vote I will NEVER vote tory for what has just happened and for many reasons you would know yourself. Tories have destroyed many bright futures for students, And will continue to do if you are ever voted again. I hope the tories happy and I hope that the tories will never be voted again..
        Your command of the English language suggests that you may not be capable of taking on the academic challenge, actually.

        It's typical, really - a load of boneheaded sheep expecting to waltz into university and get everything on a silver platter. Sorry, kiddo, that ain't how the world works, innit bruv?

        School standards have hit the deck and, consequently, so have university academic standards. What a mess, and it will likely take years to put right.

        (Original post by Alt__x)
        The Lib Dems are screwed, forever. They should enjoy the power while it lasts, cos they won't see power (if you can even call it that, seems more like licking david cameron's arse) like this again for a long long looooong time.
        Good. See earlier.

        (Original post by Jonty99)
        How have the Tories destroyed your future?

        Please bear the following points in mind:
        1. The Government is Coalition, not a Tory one
        2. Labour requested the Browne review
        3. You get a student loan
        4. You don't have to repay the debt until you are earning £21 000 a year
        Exactly. Some people are too stupid to figure this out, and you also missed Labour introducing tuition fees in the first place.

        Many graduate jobs don't even come close to £21k these days.

        (Original post by AshleyT)
        ?
        You should be able to vote for what you like without being persecuted by other members of parliament.

        Pretty sure that's the point of democracy.
        The "point of democracy" is whatever the powers that be want it to be. If you think there isn't back room dealing and lobbying in Parliament, then you would be quite wrong.

        (Original post by Meus)
        SkyNews reporting the car containing Prince Charles and Camilla was attacked
        My God, these protesters have no moral fibre or backbone whatsoever. Yeah, Charles and Camilla had everything to do with this, so let's attack Crown property (the car).

        Scratch that; these protesters don't have brains either.

        (Original post by CookieDoughLove)
        As opposed to sitting around with pretty signs and sandwiches? Sometimes actions speak louder than words.
        Suffragists vs Sufragettes. Who had the bigger impact? Hint: not the latter - what better way to get the vote for women than throwing yourself under a horse, dying instantly and never being able to vote in any case?
        Offline

        2
        ReputationRep:
        (Original post by ch0llima)
        Dear God, I can see you haven't evolved any since our last discussion.

        Employer's NI affects pretty much everyone so, yes, you pay that (providing your earnings are £100+ per week) as with every other worker drone out there. This is not considered "tax" by the definition of the word as you get a share of it returned upon your retirement, by way of the State Pension. The only other return you get on your tax is when the government spends it on things designed to make your life more fulfilled, Citizen.

        Student loans are untaxable but are subject to interest during the repayment cycle. If a company employs a student, then they can pay up to a personal allowance of £6475 gross p.a. (hint: unless you're running your own business you're unlikely to make anything approaching this as a student) without even taking PAYE. Failing that, you can file a claim with HMRC within five years of initial payment in order to have it all refunded.

        If you are a student who only works through the holidays, then you are entirely tax exempt or at least eligible for a refund.

        As an aside, how much tax have you paid this year? Hint: I've answered this question for you already, and think of it as figurative rather than literal.
        Oh shoot, I forgot that income tax and NI were the only kinds of tax.

        Oh, wait...
        Offline

        2
        ReputationRep:
        Can't say I blame the tories for this, its what they said they would do so fair play to them, infact I'm sure they said they were going to completely uncap it...? (I don't know if this last bit is correct, my memory fails me)

        However, shame on the Lib Dems. That party should be thrown in the waste paper basket of shame and burned with the rest of the useless garbage. I doubt they will be successful ever again. It seems to people at the moment that they threw everything away for a night in bed with David Cameron.

        Why did Nick Clegg cross the road? Because he said he wouldn't.
        • Offline

          14
          (Original post by missygeorgia)
          Oh shoot, I forgot that income tax and NI were the only kinds of tax.

          Oh, wait...
          I am well aware of this, and it was actually a test to see if you actually read and quoted the correct bit for once.

          Not only that, you provided a sensible answer. You passed.
          Offline

          1
          ReputationRep:
          (Original post by meenu89)
          It's called 'Collective Responsibility'
          You need to Google it, it's part of our constitution, and while you're at it you might want to find out what 21 minus 8 is.
          I repeat, you cannot be in Government and vote against Government policy.
          Apologies, i meant if the lib dems had voted no.


          And, wtf is the point in decisions if people in the government can't vote no? Other lib dems voted no, so why are the rest bound by 'collective responsibility'?

          Or am i missing something?
          Offline

          18
          ReputationRep:
          (Original post by AshleyT)
          Apologies, i meant if the lib dems had voted no.


          And, wtf is the point in decisions if people in the government can't vote no? Other lib dems voted no, so why are the rest bound by 'collective responsibility'?

          Or am i missing something?
          Those Lib Dems who voted 'No' are not in Government. They are backbenchers.
          Offline

          0
          ReputationRep:
          im not 100% convinced about the placement of that comma in the title...
          Offline

          2
          ReputationRep:
          I kinda agree with this. Had there not been so much violence and damage students could have dealt with this with a little dignity. Let's be honest, it was always going to go through, regardless of protests. But now we all come off as being immature and destructive. Congrats guys. Job well done.
          Offline

          0
          ReputationRep:
          I'm un-clear on why a large majority of students in "the student room" seem to be relishing the prospect of paying much larger amounts of money towards their education than needed.
          Who are you people? and what is your reasoning for being so supportive, of surley, your own misfortune?!
         
         
         
      • See more of what you like on The Student Room

        You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

      • Poll
        What newspaper do you read/prefer?
        Useful resources

        Groups associated with this forum:

        View associated groups
      • See more of what you like on The Student Room

        You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

      • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

        Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

        Quick reply
        Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.