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    oh no's, mistakes were made, thus the whole US army sucks and not one of them deserves to be called a hero for the mistake of one crew.........harsh much?
    yes the mistakes costed lives, but when i watched that video, i personally thought the camera looked like an RPG as well, and if was under that situation, i certaintly wouldnt hang around to see if it was an RPG, especialy once your whole crew has agreed that it is said object. So, thus, they were doing their jobs, they did wrong, very wrong, but mistakes happen, its just a shame wikileaks gets hold of all these mistakes (the things they get right, definatly out weigh the things they get wrong imo) things happening these days, and posts it knowing exactly what sort of reaction it'll cause.....
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    (Original post by Square)
    ah yes, 5 pages of military insight from 20 year old armchair generals.
    Oh now so I'm not allowed an opinion?
    PS I don't have an armchair
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    (Original post by Drunk Punx)
    Have you ever been in a warzone? :holmes:

    If not, then shut the **** up. You've probably never had to face the challenges that any of those soldiers have ever had to face, and that goes for soldiers all over the globe, not just American ones.
    Granted, what they did was wrong and they shouldn't have covered it up, but when you've been shot at several times and you really start to fear for your own life, you can't blame them for being too trigger happy in situations where in their mind it's "kill or be killed".
    And have you ever been in a war zone? I expect that if you had then you would have mentioned it so the answer is no. Therefore we both apparently can't have an opinion on it so you shut the **** up. As I have mentioned countless times before, I know it's not just American ones. But please, watch the video at the bottom, it's not just one unfortunate incident, it's the only incident that wikileaks got a video of.

    (Original post by kog)
    oh no's, mistakes were made, thus the whole US army sucks and not one of them deserves to be called a hero for the mistake of one crew.........harsh much?
    yes the mistakes costed lives, but when i watched that video, i personally thought the camera looked like an RPG as well, and if was under that situation, i certaintly wouldnt hang around to see if it was an RPG, especialy once your whole crew has agreed that it is said object. So, thus, they were doing their jobs, they did wrong, very wrong, but mistakes happen, its just a shame wikileaks gets hold of all these mistakes (the things they get right, definatly out weigh the things they get wrong imo) things happening these days, and posts it knowing exactly what sort of reaction it'll cause.....
    Again, maybe you should read my other posts before you assume things. I never said that the whole US army 'sucks'. The thread title is calling out to people who think that all soldiers are heroes, when not all of them are. And again watch the eye witness solider video at the bottom of the page of the link, he tells us that these kind of incidents happen everyday. Obviously not all the soldiers agree with it, they're just doing what they're told but as you can see from the first video some of them have their own ideas of what they want to do and when told that they can do what they like they go for it, and call them 'dead *******s' etc. Surely you don't agree with that? Behaving like a **** like some of the soldiers isn't a mistake, it's just what they're like.
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    (Original post by pippa90)
    And have you ever been in a war zone? I expect that if you had then you would have mentioned it so the answer is no. Therefore we both apparently can't have an opinion on it so you shut the **** up. As I have mentioned countless times before, I know it's not just American ones. But please, watch the video at the bottom, it's not just one unfortunate incident, it's the only incident that wikileaks got a video of.
    I'll have any damn opinion I want, but you ****ging off an entire army just because of a few soldiers is way out of line.

    I've seen the vids and have no opinion of them; it doesn't affect me, so there's no point getting wound up about it.
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    (Original post by pippa90)


    Again, maybe you should read my other posts before you assume things. I never said that the whole US army 'sucks'. The thread title is calling out to people who think that all soldiers are heroes, when not all of them are. And again watch the eye witness solider video at the bottom of the page of the link, he tells us that these kind of incidents happen everyday. Obviously not all the soldiers agree with it, they're just doing what they're told but as you can see from the first video some of them have their own ideas of what they want to do and when told that they can do what they like they go for it, and call them 'dead *******s' etc. Surely you don't agree with that? Behaving like a **** like some of the soldiers isn't a mistake, it's just what they're like.
    sorry, did i quote you? did i speak directly to you? nope, i wasnt trying to cause an argument with you, but i've seen a few threads like this in the past where theres bound to be one person tihnking everyone sucks etc etc, that was meant for them.
    as for the second part of your paragraph, i fail to see what you're talking about, i've only watched the 45 minute long vid a while back done by someone clearly against the army in the first place (as you could tell from the first 5 mins of slideshow) and therefore, biased. However when you refer to `them calling them dead *******s` i'll assume you're talking about the guys talking in the helicopter whilst shooting the civilians (whom they wrongly assumed as terrorists) in the first video. (if i've assumed wrong, correct me, it's my mistake (see! these things happen!)). Yes they did call them some harsh names whilst killing them, but once again they thought those guys were armed terrorists.

    If i have got the wrong end of the stick and am talking about a different video (i'll admit it's likely), i may watch it later, however if its one saying how they should have known it was a civilian, how they should be more careful, how they are hiding these things all the time, how their wasting the countries money etc etc, i'll pass.
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    (Original post by Drunk Punx)
    I'll have any damn opinion I want, but you ****ging off an entire army just because of a few soldiers is way out of line.

    I've seen the vids and have no opinion of them; it doesn't affect me, so there's no point getting wound up about it.

    Yeah me too, I got called inhumane on the first page for saying the rescuers are retarded driving a van full of kids into an area under fire from 20mm frag shells
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    (Original post by pippa90)
    No. If they attack us then fine, we'll fight back, but we're just there intruding on their affairs. It's idiotic because in time they will end up attacking us properly and it'll be World War III.
    What? Who will attack us properly? :confused:

    Either way, fighting back only when attacked is such a simple idea that no longer works in this economic world we live in. There are so many more factors, some being more important that have to also be resolved with fighting.
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    (Original post by Drunk Punx)
    Have you ever been in a warzone? :holmes:

    If not, then shut the **** up. You've probably never had to face the challenges that any of those soldiers have ever had to face, and that goes for soldiers all over the globe, not just American ones.
    Granted, what they did was wrong and they shouldn't have covered it up, but when you've been shot at several times and you really start to fear for your own life, you can't blame them for being too trigger happy in situations where in their mind it's "kill or be killed".
    They were pilots in an apache helicopter over a mile away, hardly kill or be killed when you consider they were unarmed and even if they were, the people were unaware of the helicopter (the noisy streets would have meant they wouldn't have heard it) and it'd be out of the range of a RPG so there's no threat from that.
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    (Original post by Drunk Punx)
    I'll have any damn opinion I want, but you ****ging off an entire army just because of a few soldiers is way out of line.

    I've seen the vids and have no opinion of them; it doesn't affect me, so there's no point getting wound up about it.
    As I've said so many bloody times before I'm not ****ging off the whole army, I've never said that, so get your facts straight before accusing me.

    So you have no opinion on most things? Seeing as most things don't revolve around you.
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    (Original post by kog)
    sorry, did i quote you? did i speak directly to you? nope, i wasnt trying to cause an argument with you, but i've seen a few threads like this in the past where theres bound to be one person tihnking everyone sucks etc etc, that was meant for them.
    as for the second part of your paragraph, i fail to see what you're talking about, i've only watched the 45 minute long vid a while back done by someone clearly against the army in the first place (as you could tell from the first 5 mins of slideshow) and therefore, biased. However when you refer to `them calling them dead *******s` i'll assume you're talking about the guys talking in the helicopter whilst shooting the civilians (whom they wrongly assumed as terrorists) in the first video. (if i've assumed wrong, correct me, it's my mistake (see! these things happen!)). Yes they did call them some harsh names whilst killing them, but once again they thought those guys were armed terrorists.

    If i have got the wrong end of the stick and am talking about a different video (i'll admit it's likely), i may watch it later, however if its one saying how they should have known it was a civilian, how they should be more careful, how they are hiding these things all the time, how their wasting the countries money etc etc, i'll pass.
    No you didn't quote me but I felt the need to reply.
    I find it funny when you say they thought they were terrorists, because the soldiers themselves are acting like terrorists. They had never met them before, didn't know anything about them or know who they were but they still say disgusting things like that when and after they've murdered them.

    The video at the bottom is of a a US soldier talking about it, and what it's like to be in the army. He says that incidents like that, where they accidently kill innocent people happen everyday. That would hardly be biased.

    (Original post by AwsomePossum)
    Yeah me too, I got called inhumane on the first page for saying the rescuers are retarded driving a van full of kids into an area under fire from 20mm frag shells
    I wouldn't have called you inhumane for that, it would have been for something else. If you didn't say anything else then sorry I must have mis-quoted you.

    (Original post by Jimbo1234)
    What? Who will attack us properly? :confused:

    Either way, fighting back only when attacked is such a simple idea that no longer works in this economic world we live in. There are so many more factors, some being more important that have to also be resolved with fighting.
    Oh let me think, Iraq, Afganistan, many other middle eastern countries that are sick of our troops getting involved and killing their civilians all the time.

    Have to be resolved with fighting? Yes some things do but we've jumped into fighting too early.
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    (Original post by pippa90)
    Oh let me think, Iraq, Afganistan, many other middle eastern countries that are sick of our troops getting involved and killing their civilians all the time.

    Have to be resolved with fighting? Yes some things do but we've jumped into fighting too early.
    You actually think Iraq and Co. will attack us properly?

    If you read/watch anything from Afghanistan and Iraq then you would realise that firstly there has always been conflict there, so for them nothing is new, and secondly they want us there to resolve all their issues, yet they don't want to see or hear us. Yes, that is impossible for us to do and they should make their mind up.

    As for attacking to early - this is very doubtful. How do you think Iraq would have responded to Iran's nuclear program or when Saddam had to hand his regime over? The result would have been a huge disaster for many countries and economically for pretty much every developed country.
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    (Original post by Jimbo1234)
    You actually think Iraq and Co. will attack us properly?

    If you read/watch anything from Afghanistan and Iraq then you would realise that firstly there has always been conflict there, so for them nothing is new, and secondly they want us there to resolve all their issues, yet they don't want to see or hear us. Yes, that is impossible for us to do and they should make their mind up.

    As for attacking to early - this is very doubtful. How do you think Iraq would have responded to Iran's nuclear program or when Saddam had to hand his regime over? The result would have been a huge disaster for many countries and economically for pretty much every developed country.
    I think that someday they will. Whether it's the countries themselves or the Taliban.

    Maybe we should make their mind up for them and pull out?

    Okay we should go in when needed, but hanging around in a war zone ready to shoot anyone who could be up to something is not needed. Imagine if they started doing that in the UK or US, would be ridiculous.
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    (Original post by pippa90)
    I think that someday they will. Whether it's the countries themselves or the Taliban.

    Maybe we should make their mind up for them and pull out?

    Okay we should go in when needed, but hanging around in a war zone ready to shoot anyone who could be up to something is not needed. Imagine if they started doing that in the UK or US, would be ridiculous.
    What was 9/11? Was that provoked? :rolleyes:

    We would not have to shoot everyone if the forces received better cooperation from the local people, and also if the American military was not ran by a bunch of medal hunting idiots.
    However you do have to stick around and attempt to fix things. Look what happened in Afghanistan when the US gave them weapons to fight Russia but then no money to help rebuild....It went from a country that once hosted the Olympics to the 4th least developed country in the world. This is why you have to stick around once you attack it.
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    (Original post by CombineHarvester)
    They were pilots in an apache helicopter over a mile away, hardly kill or be killed when you consider they were unarmed and even if they were, the people were unaware of the helicopter (the noisy streets would have meant they wouldn't have heard it) and it'd be out of the range of a RPG so there's no threat from that.
    A very valid point.However sir. the so called Rpg would have endangered the bradley in the bushmaster ground elements.You know the Bradley that ran some dude over.

    Reference:A Bradley is an APC for all y'all who don't like violent films or haven't played Bfbc2


    Just out of intrest are there any actual military personell on this forum.As I understand the RAF sponsors students if they join the reserves.
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    [QUOTE=pippa90;28857970]No you didn't quote me but I felt the need to reply.
    I find it funny when you say they thought they were terrorists, because the soldiers themselves are acting like terrorists. They had never met them before, didn't know anything about them or know who they were but they still say disgusting things like that when and after they've murdered them.

    The video at the bottom is of a a US soldier talking about it, and what it's like to be in the army. He says that incidents like that, where they accidently kill innocent people happen everyday. That would hardly be biased.



    I wouldn't have called you inhumane for that, it would have been for something else. If you didn't say anything else then sorry I must have mis-quoted you.


    I it's Ok I'm on the fence in general I can see the human rights issue here.However I can see the mentality of engage them quick before we lose them.

    Just to clarify why is the command element not to blame. The targets satisfied their presquities for Rules Of return fire.They ordered the shooting and the gunship into it's AO to start with.
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    'They're just doing their jobs' 'joking about it is a way of dealing with it', they of course have my fullest sympathies, murdering grunts that they are, but what a about the innocent bystanders? Any sympathy there? The men holding the cameras could have looked from that distance as if they were holding guns, but it's pretty clear that most of the other civilians were empty handed, yet they were still killed, marvellous logic. Pigs. Animals from low walks of life, given guns and a uniform, who suddenly gain an ill-founded sense of righteousness and and a god complex.
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    (Original post by Jimbo1234)
    What was 9/11? Was that provoked? :rolleyes:

    We would not have to shoot everyone if the forces received better cooperation from the local people, and also if the American military was not ran by a bunch of medal hunting idiots.
    However you do have to stick around and attempt to fix things. Look what happened in Afghanistan when the US gave them weapons to fight Russia but then no money to help rebuild....It went from a country that once hosted the Olympics to the 4th least developed country in the world. This is why you have to stick around once you attack it.
    Maybe? Tbh I don't know all the ins and outs of everything to do with these attacks made by them and us, but we can see that they aren't handling this properly. I don't know how they would handle it properly either, but it needs to be reviewed.

    Everything's just a big mess basically!


    (Original post by AwsomePossum)

    I it's Ok I'm on the fence in general I can see the human rights issue here.However I can see the mentality of engage them quick before we lose them.

    Just to clarify why is the command element not to blame. The targets satisfied their presquities for Rules Of return fire.They ordered the shooting and the gunship into it's AO to start with.
    Sorry you've lost me a bit. If you mean that the people in charge should be to blame for such incidents, then yes I agree with you mostly. In the video in some cases the soldiers were allowed to shoot whenever, and the soldier in the bottom video described how there's soldiers who are terrified and don't want to look like wimps so go along with it and then there's the ones who are *******s who agree that 'every mother****er on the street' should be shot.
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    (Original post by Roocky)
    'They're just doing their jobs' 'joking about it is a way of dealing with it', they of course have my fullest sympathies, murdering grunts that they are, but what a about the innocent bystanders? Any sympathy there? The men holding the cameras could have looked from that distance as if they were holding guns, but it's pretty clear that most of the other civilians were empty handed, yet they were still killed, marvellous logic. Pigs. Animals from low walks of life, given guns and a uniform, who suddenly gain an ill-founded sense of righteousness and and a god complex.
    My view has slightly been changed when I watched the video at the bottom of the page of a soldier talking about it. I feel sorry for a lot of them, because when they're out there they have to act like big hard men to fit in, when really they're terrified. But you could pick out those soldiers between the actual ***** in the main video.
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    (Original post by pippa90)
    Maybe? Tbh I don't know all the ins and outs of everything to do with these attacks made by them and us, but we can see that they aren't handling this properly. I don't know how they would handle it properly either, but it needs to be reviewed.

    Everything's just a big mess basically!
    Oh my ****ing god how do you not know about the basics of 9/11 seeing that it only happened a few years ago . No offence, but have you been living under a rock or something? It was completely unprovoked and random.

    As far as being a mess - that is actually pretty complex as it has a lot to do with oil which many people condemn, but many people forget that oil makes the world go round and without stable prices, we may as well prepare for WW3.
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    (Original post by pippa90)
    My view has slightly been changed when I watched the video at the bottom of the page of a soldier talking about it. I feel sorry for a lot of them, because when they're out there they have to act like big hard men to fit in, when really they're terrified. But you could pick out those soldiers between the actual ***** in the main video.

    True, can't make a blanket statement,some may be deserving of sympathy/praise , but if we're talking about the shooters in the video then it's pretty clear they were some hicks just looking to kill someone that say, 'let me shoot!', like an over excited kid in a candy store, and the whole i want to impress my friends idea doesn't really sound like a good excuse. Shooting the van trying to pick up the dying was just unnecessary. I'm wanting to attend a protest at some point, do you know of any happening?
 
 
 
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