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Which universities will charge above £6000? Watch

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    (Original post by Panda Vinnie)
    I think all the universities could get away with charging the same at 3k/year but I would be shocked if they all charge in excess of 6k, particularly when hitting the 9k mark. Lower end universities can't justify that cost, and to be honest it's not fair to students going there having to pay the same amount as a student who's getting world-class oxbridge level education.

    They can charge what they like, but I think this time it will only lead to their downfall as students just won't go to them...and perhaps not go to uni at all, in which case everybody loses.
    Its not a matter of how good the courses are but how many people are prepared to pay for it. If English Lit at Derby uni is oversubscribled, then they can charge the full £9k, if physics at UCL is undersubscribled, then it can't charge as much.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    Unis can charge up to £9k, which all of them will be highly motivated to do.
    You haven't been reading the posts (or the press coverage):-

    "In exceptional cases, universities will be able to charge higher contributions, up to a limit of £9,000, subject to meeting much tougher conditions on widening participation and fair access."

    Posters have, rightly, been debating whether this is meaningless waffle but to say that Unis can charge up to £9k is just plain wrong.
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    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    I wouldn't be sure about that as arts / humanities / social sciences are losing all their government funding, so while they are cheaper to run, they'll get less income.
    Government money cannot be relied on as we have already seen. I think unis will slowly get rid of unprofitable subjects and expensive courses like science and engineering.
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    Oxbridge, Durham, Warwick, LSE, Imperial, UCL.

    If lower unis follow, they have a lack of self-perception
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    (Original post by Maker)
    Its not a matter of how good the courses are but how many people are prepared to pay for it. If English Lit at Derby uni is oversubscribled, then they can charge the full £9k, if physics at UCL is undersubscribled, then it can't charge as much.
    There is a marketing decision to be made here. Do universities
    price across the institution or course by course? Derby's PR consultant may advise that the university will fill its courses better (and get higher overall fee revenue) by advertising that it is cheap even though Derby could get away with charging more money for one or two particular courses.

    Likewise UCl may feel that it would rather protect its brand by not advertising that one or two of its courses are cheap. At the moment several universities prefer not to enter clearing or adjustment and prefer to take students who miss their offers to fill their places even though there are better students seeking places who have no place.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    Government money cannot be relied on as we have already seen. I think unis will slowly get rid of unprofitable subjects and expensive courses like science and engineering.
    Erm why? the government is promoting these subjects in preference to arts and social sciences. It hasn't cut their teaching budget nearly as much as it has with arts/soc sciences. Part of all this tution fees malarky has been the government trying to shift more people away from arts and soc sciences and into STEM subjects.
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    (Original post by Allie-23)
    Most American Unis are private though, and the ones which are public typically are not always the best. Some are. You also only get the reduced and incredibly cheap price if you live in that particular state, and since most states don't have great schools, you end up either applying private or to public schools in other states, and than you will get hit with the hefty prices. But you are right, in state at a sub par uni, is probably cheaper than 6,000 euros.
    Sorry can I just ask something? I don't know if anyone else has said something, I cba to read the rest of the thread), but I don't understand why you are using Euros as the currency. This is a British forum talking about British university, and we don't use the Euro.

    EDIT: Someone has said it, ignore me.
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    (Original post by ajp100688)
    I imagine that the 1994 Group and Russell Group universities will switch to £9k en masse. The other unis will probably go about it as they see fit over the next couple years. Within about five years we should have numerous alterations in fee levels as universities react to student numbers and financing issues. So theoretically it should result in a more diversified fees structure in the long term.

    However this is exactly what the government suggested would happen last time and didn't. The difference there was £1k->£3k wasn't quite the jump we're looking at now.
    The market is likely to charge.

    One of the problems with part-time study has been absence of funding. That is changing. Expect to see a lot more part-time students.

    The government is favourable to private providers. They are going to be bottoms on seats degree factories; no research projects etc.

    What does an arts degree really cost to provide if we strip out the cost of the student union and the vice-chancellor's new axminster? Some idea is provided by funding for VIth form teaching. Vith forms have a far higher staff-pupil ratio than university staff-student ratios. Teaching salaries are probably only marginally lower on average than academic salaries (many more cheap academics compensate for a few highly paid professors). VIth forms receive on average between £4-5,000 per pupil.

    If one strips out the frivolities, one could probably provide an arts degree for under £4,000 a year and still make money. I don't think any of our existing universities could do this but a private provider coming in afresh or taking over a bust university (with a slash and burn approach to costs) could do so.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    The market is likely to charge.

    One of the problems with part-time study has been absence of funding. That is changing. Expect to see a lot more part-time students.

    The government is favourable to private providers. They are going to be bottoms on seats degree factories; no research projects etc.

    What does an arts degree really cost to provide if we strip out the cost of the student union and the vice-chancellor's new axminster? Some idea is provided by funding for VIth form teaching. Vith forms have a far higher staff-pupil ratio than university staff-student ratios. Teaching salaries are probably only marginally lower on average than academic salaries (many more cheap academics compensate for a few highly paid professors). VIth forms receive on average between £4-5,000 per pupil.

    If one strips out the frivolities, one could probably provide an arts degree for under £4,000 a year and still make money. I don't think any of our existing universities could do this but a private provider coming in afresh or taking over a bust university (with a slash and burn approach to costs) could do so.
    Lets not forget, many general courses especially first year modules aren't even taught by qualified academics. Most universities recruit their MA and PhD students and pay them pitiful amounts to teach.

    I go to a 1994 Group university and yet all my first year teaching was done by PhD students, not one professor amongst them. 2nd year is different but I would expect many first year modules elsewhere are taught by postgraduate students aswell.
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    Think of University as a product on the high street. You can sell to a few at a high price if your product has enough prestige, as people will always want those brands. The universities with less so will not be able to charge this premium for their 'brand' because it doesn't have the same prestige. The quality of the product is lower. However, they will presumably take in more students at a lower 'price'.

    It will create a market economy in degrees. The last government did not manage this because there was too short a range of price that University could be charged at, and no incentive for universities to charge less. with the financial support for part time degrees, it should come in correctly.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    You haven't been reading the posts (or the press coverage):-

    "In exceptional cases, universities will be able to charge higher contributions, up to a limit of £9,000, subject to meeting much tougher conditions on widening participation and fair access."

    Posters have, rightly, been debating whether this is meaningless waffle but to say that Unis can charge up to £9k is just plain wrong.
    Most top unis can charge more than £9k if there was no cap. Oxbridge, UCL, Imperial, LSE could charge up to £22k per year if left to the free market. Most of the rest of the Russell group plus Durham and St Andrews can probably charge £15k-20k per year as well. The international market for degrees means most of the above unis are competing with the likes of the US Ivy league, MIT and Stanford in the US and the Sorbonne and Heidlburg in Europe.

    The lower tier former polys and colleges can charge £10k per year easily so charging £9k in a market enviroment is a no brainer.

    The unis turned away 120,000 applicants last year, so there is no lack of demand which means charging £9k will not decrease demand even at the bottom ranked unis.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    Most top unis can charge more than £9k if there was no cap. Oxbridge, UCL, Imperial, LSE could charge up to £22k per year if left to the free market. Most of the rest of the Russell group plus Durham and St Andrews can probably charge £15k-20k per year as well. The international market for degrees means most of the above unis are competing with the likes of the US Ivy league, MIT and Stanford in the US and the Sorbonne and Heidlburg in Europe.

    The lower tier former polys and colleges can charge £10k per year easily so charging £9k in a market enviroment is a no brainer.

    The unis turned away 120,000 applicants last year, so there is no lack of demand which means charging £9k will not decrease demand even at the bottom ranked unis.
    No lack of demand at £3.2k per year, whether there is a lack of demand at £6-9k p/a we don't know yet.
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    (Original post by Joinedup)
    Thousand a month for accom sounds steep - as you probably know the English unis generally don't care where you choose to live.

    Aren't there a lot of scholarships though?
    yes. Academic, Athletic, and financial.

    Academic scholarships are awarded to students who are among the top percentage of the student body. Most of the time if a student is awarded one at a particular uni, they could have gotten into a more competetive uni. So thats a bit of a balancing act on which you prefer.

    Athletic scholarships are insane. You have to be an amazing athlete in order to get one, but there are alot of them out there. Typically Football, soccer, basketball, and baseball for guys have the most. Girls get a lot of soccer, field hockey, basketball, and lacrosse scholarships. Others are out there too, just depends on the uni.

    financial scholarships are just awarded to students from really poor families.

    American unis also do a food plan. It is a cafeteria and you pay a certain amount of money a year and than you can go 2 or 3X and day you want and eat whatever you want. do British unis do this also or are you on your own for food?
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    (Original post by jb9191)
    I still doubt they will be able to improve their reputation even with increases fee's.

    Its like Oxford & Cambridge will always be successful due to their history and their 'name'.

    I expect a few institutions lower down the tables to close down whilst the middle ranked universities will charge £9000 to force their standards up their to try and break into the top 10 as well as improve international recognition.
    You're assuming that everybody makes their choices based on league tables there.
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    (Original post by Allie-23)
    yes. Academic, Athletic, and financial.

    Academic scholarships are awarded to students who are among the top percentage of the student body. Most of the time if a student is awarded one at a particular uni, they could have gotten into a more competetive uni. So thats a bit of a balancing act on which you prefer.

    Athletic scholarships are insane. You have to be an amazing athlete in order to get one, but there are alot of them out there. Typically Football, soccer, basketball, and baseball for guys have the most. Girls get a lot of soccer, field hockey, basketball, and lacrosse scholarships. Others are out there too, just depends on the uni.

    financial scholarships are just awarded to students from really poor families.

    American unis also do a food plan. It is a cafeteria and you pay a certain amount of money a year and than you can go 2 or 3X and day you want and eat whatever you want. do British unis do this also or are you on your own for food?
    Do your own mostly - some of the halls of residence have meals laid on as part of the rent, haven't done a survey but I think that's a small minority.
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    I think the new fees structure would appeal to mature students. A 44 year old goes to uni, gets £27,000 of debt, works for 20 years and retires at 67 then has 10 years without paying a penny because his retirement income will be under £21k per year.

    What this means is the younger graduates will have to pick up the tab so looks like the repayments will have to increase or the threshold for repayment has to be lowered.
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    Does it help you people being that pessimistic and saying that all the universities will charge more than 6000 pounds a year?!
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    (Original post by Maker)
    I think the new fees structure would appeal to mature students. A 44 year old goes to uni, gets £27,000 of debt, works for 20 years and retires at 67 then has 10 years without paying a penny because his retirement income will be under £21k per year.

    What this means is the younger graduates will have to pick up the tab so looks like the repayments will have to increase or the threshold for repayment has to be lowered.
    This is rather twisted logic that makes no sense.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    Government money cannot be relied on as we have already seen. I think unis will slowly get rid of unprofitable subjects and expensive courses like science and engineering.
    I completely disagree. Science and engineering courses are the most important ones in the economy these days. If anything, their importance will be further emphasised in the new tuition fees measures. In Australia, STEM courses are cheaper than all other courses, due to their "national importance". I think a system like that should be considered in the UK.

    (Original post by ajp100688)
    No lack of demand at £3.2k per year, whether there is a lack of demand at £6-9k p/a we don't know yet.
    Yep. I agree with this. There's no doubt that the likes of Oxbridge and Imperial will continue with their high application numbers but it's hard to know what will happen with other universities. £9000 just seems like such a ludicrous increase so suddenly...
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    Most of you seem to be unaware that due to there being many more bursaries available in the US the average student debt on completion of a degree in the USA is about £15K.

    Only the uber-rich pay full wack in the US.
 
 
 
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