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    (Original post by Mann18)
    So?

    The motive may not have been noble, but the end result was that an evil dictator was overthrown.

    Get real.
    At the cost of how many lives ? Not to mention the damage to the infrastructure of an entire country?
    What's improved since the removal of the evil dictator?
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    (Original post by amsie/)
    i very much doubt that if we stop ****ing about with them, why would they attack us. wouldn't iran or north korea have attacked by now
    the fact is that western countries are opressing these countries- if they want to enrich uranium & stuff who are we to stop them seeing as we do it too
    Just like some people want to attack muslim countries and end the ''eastern'' way of life, cause it seems as though the west is making light work of destroying the middle east.
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    (Original post by BellaBoo)
    Lol no i don't think you're evil, just an attention seeking idiot (i'm honestly finding it hard to accept that you genuinely believe the crap that you wrote, i'm just thinking you're trying to be sensationalist to get a response?) You actually have the cheek to call my posts "drivel" yet then come out with such s***. Are you actually being serious?

    "A murderer is someone who has commited murder. This does not make someone a murderer." SAY WHAT?!??!?!? And i'm supposed to be the one who posts drivel? You obviously can't justify your original point (i.e. the Somali pirates being victims) so instead are trying to get me in a moral debate. Meat was really the wrong example to bring up with me. I am a vegetarian and believe that eating an animal is akin to eating another person. But the only thing you have acheived in your post is me wasting 5 minutes of my life reading it (maybe that was your intention?) because while you are right that other issues can cause someone to commit atrocious acts (e.g. low self esteem etc as you said) it doesn't mean that the act itself and therefore the people commiting it aren't dead wrong for doing so! You implied that the Somali Pirates were somehow innocent (because of British people using "their" oil and being the reason for Somalia's poverty-which btw you still haven't explained) and you also still haven't indicated how that can possibly be the case!
    And how do random people on the street have some kind of responsibility for you being unable to get a job and being poor, and how do all Israelis have some kind of responsibility for those Palestinian kids who lost their parents? There is a difference between wanting to kill the people who actually killed your parents, and taking it out on people who just happen to share the same nationality of those who did! I never said it was evil for them wanting revenge, but for them to want revenge on ALL Israeli's *is* damn evil. I can't actually believe i'm even trying to debate with someone who asks what the difference between an adult and an child is, and believes that peadophillia is a "sexual preference" and akin to homosexuality. In a homosexual relationship the two people are consenting and know what they're doing, that is NOT the same as a man ****ing a 3 year old girl!

    Maybe when you grow up a bit you'll look back at the **** you typed and realise that it doesn't make you look cool or edgy (lmao @ "exploring my dark side", it just makes you look like a prick.
    lol at attention seeking, yeah I like attention, just like you and every other human I suppose this makes me evil again lmao. But no Im just expressing myself. I hate when people class middle easterners as terrorist if annoys me. I didnt think this thread was particuarly attention seeking. You made a post so that makes you "attention seeking" too lol.

    Yep A muderer is a label. It may be difficult for your judgemental mind to understand but someone who has stolen in their life is not neccessarily a theif. Someone who has been a christian or believes the bible is true in their life is not a "christian". Someone who has cheated in a test at school is not a cheater. Someone who has got drunk a few times in not a "pisshead" That is a judgement or label of them. The grass is only "green" according to our mind not reality. It is only green because we say it is.

    The act itself is a result of the persons belief systems, thoughts, feelings and levels of awareness. As well as the person actually commiting the act. Beliefs can be weak or strong. You may have the belief that it is neccessary to survive. it doesnt make that belief true or false. It is just a belief. This does not make the "person" wrong rather their act or belief system wrong according to your belief system.

    No one said that random people on the street have a responsibility. But a lot of rich people in my eyes have responsibility for oppressing the poor and maintaining the power struggle. That hate just like most feelings is irrational and maybe you might consider it eveil. But Im sure every single day you have thousands of irrational thoughts and feelings.

    Stereotyping is natural. Its like saying usually when I walk out in the street there isnt a thunderstorm or snow and usually in summer it is hot. Or usually my boss gets angry and blames me for mistakes at work. When someone sees a lot of israelis kill their family they will jump to conclusions as is natural.

    Yep there is only a subjective difference between an adult and a child in terms of actual wisdom. There has been a 12 year old king of this country hundreds of years ago, there are 12 year olds in other countries who are leaders of armies or write books. There are 30 year olds that wont stand up for themselves cry for weeks because their girlfriend broke up with them etc.

    And no I stand by my statement that homosexuality and pedophilia has similarities. Young children do not always consent to go to school every day yet they are forced. Young children do not always consent to eat meals, play sport go to sleep at said time everyday yet they are forced. Young children do not get a choice in being fed religion to them yet they are forced/dont know what they are doing. etc etc I know this comment would not be very acceptable in the gay community or according to women who seem to love a gay best friend. But lots of people Im sure would agree with it. And no I am indifferent towards gay people. And no I dont agree with pedophilia.

    And lmao at exploring my dark side. Why is that. Carl Jung discusses this subject at great depth and he is one of the most famous psychologists. Buddhism has a lot to do with allowing emotions and thoughts and feelings instead of repressing them and when repressed they increase infinitely. When you hate aspects of yourself you also hate other people. By referring to others as evil. You increase hate and actually offend many people. Regardless of wether it is justified in your own mind.
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    (Original post by 9a3iqa)
    Is to stop terrorising people! The ignorance on TSR and western society in general is appaling.

    I hope you people know that the Americans have been playing boss in the Middle East for the past two decaded. They have even been installing military bases in most Middle Eastern countries through intimidation and threats. History did not start from 9/11! The people in the Middle East are sick of being invaded and opressed by European powers. As I am sure Europeans and Americans would be if another people invaded and terrorised them. Also when American invaded Iraq and Afghanistan they slaughtered hundreds of thousands of innocent people and ruined the lives of millions. So who is the real terrorist now? 3000 people died on 9/11 and 50 died in 7/7. More than 300,000 died in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yet you people call the Muslims terrorists?

    Hasn't Wikileaks taught you a thing or two about the "honesty" of your governments? Yet you continue to put your trust in them? Hasn't Wikileaks taught you just how much free speech really is valued in the West?

    Why would people risk their lives to fight and kill modern armies. If you stopped killing them and stealing from them people would leave you alone you know! There is only one way to end terrorism. STOP INVADING OTHER COUNTRIES, KILLING THEIR PEOPLE AND STEALING THEIR RESOURCES.

    p.s, Moderators, if you close my thread just because of my opinion then you truly are spineless cowards.
    well said
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    I haven't read through all the pages as I have to go in a minute, so I pologise if his point has been made.


    The 300,000 casualties have been ovrwhelmingly been caused by Insurgents and 'Muslims'. The amount of lives direclty ended by the coalition forces are far below that, and anyone with any sense realises that.

    Terrorists don't need justification for killing innocents. If we leave now, we will simpley be blamed for everything that goes wrong for the next 20 years, and the hate will continue. I didn't support th war in the start, but the only way for this to end is to ride it out. God knows there are no stable countries in the Middle East, but better to stay there for another 20 years than leave Iraq/Afghanistan in the messes they are now.

    After we went in, it was a lose/lose situation. You're kidding yourself if you think Terrorism will stop if we just upped an left. There is a generation of Jihadists that will continue the fight until they're dead, so brainwashed are they.
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    (Original post by crazycake93)
    Just like some people want to attack muslim countries and end the ''eastern'' way of life, cause it seems as though the west is making light work of destroying the middle east.
    yep, that's what i meant with everything, there's a minority of haters on both sides
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    (Original post by sinbad23)
    lol at attention seeking, yeah I like attention, just like you and every other human I suppose this makes me evil again lmao. But no Im just expressing myself. I hate when people class middle easterners as terrorist if annoys me. I didnt think this thread was particuarly attention seeking. You made a post so that makes you "attention seeking" too lol.

    Yep A muderer is a label. It may be difficult for your judgemental mind to understand but someone who has stolen in their life is not neccessarily a theif.
    Someone who has been a christian or believes the bible is true in their life is not a "christian". Someone who has cheated in a test at school is not a cheater. Someone who has got drunk a few times in not a "pisshead" That is a judgement or label of them. The grass is only "green" according to our mind not reality. It is only green because we say it is.

    The act itself is a result of the persons belief systems, thoughts, feelings and levels of awareness. As well as the person actually commiting the act. Beliefs can be weak or strong. You may have the belief that it is neccessary to survive. it doesnt make that belief true or false. It is just a belief. This does not make the "person" wrong rather their act or belief system wrong according to your belief system.

    No one said that random people on the street have a responsibility. But a lot of rich people in my eyes have responsibility for oppressing the poor and maintaining the power struggle. That hate just like most feelings is irrational and maybe you might consider it eveil. But Im sure every single day you have thousands of irrational thoughts and feelings.

    Stereotyping is natural. Its like saying usually when I walk out in the street there isnt a thunderstorm or snow and usually in summer it is hot. Or usually my boss gets angry and blames me for mistakes at work. When someone sees a lot of israelis kill their family they will jump to conclusions as is natural.
    Yep there is only a subjective difference between an adult and a child in terms of actual wisdom. There has been a 12 year old king of this country hundreds of years ago, there are 12 year olds in other countries who are leaders of armies or write books. There are 30 year olds that wont stand up for themselves cry for weeks because their girlfriend broke up with them etc.

    And no I stand by my statement that homosexuality and pedophilia has similarities. Young children do not always consent to go to school every day yet they are forced. Young children do not always consent to eat meals, play sport go to sleep at said time everyday yet they are forced. Young children do not get a choice in being fed religion to them yet they are forced/dont know what they are doing. etc etc I know this comment would not be very acceptable in the gay community or according to women who seem to love a gay best friend. But lots of people Im sure would agree with it. And no I am indifferent towards gay people. And no I dont agree with pedophilia.

    And lmao at exploring my dark side. Why is that. Carl Jung discusses this subject at great depth and he is one of the most famous psychologists. Buddhism has a lot to do with allowing emotions and thoughts and feelings instead of repressing them and when repressed they increase infinitely. When you hate aspects of yourself you also hate other people. By referring to others as evil. You increase hate and actually offend many people. Regardless of wether it is justified in your own mind.
    I don't like it when Middle Easterners get classed as terrorists either. My Granddad was from the "middle East" or South Asia (not sure what category it comes under) and from a country that is probably more associated with terrorism than any other in the world and it would hurt me if anyone referred to him as a terrorist. So i agree with you there. But that wasn't your point. You clearly stated that people over here had no right to condemn Somali pirates who kidnap and extort money off innocent people (because apparantly "they are doing it to survive"-because yes, we all need hundreds of thousands of pounds to survive don't we?) and even had the cheek to imply that they (and therefore most other British people) somehow DESERVE it! And yet again you still haven't explained how this is the case!

    Yes people have irrational thoughts, but you said that when you were unemployed the thought crossed your mind to rob people. I don't think it's completely unbelievable that most people would not think of taking out their anger/frustration on other innocent people! Maybe saying you were evil for contemplating it was a bit harsh (tbh you come across as more of a misguided idiot than evil) but for sure the Somali pirates who kidnapped those innocent people and nearly raped the old lady *are* pure evil. And i'm sure that most Somali people themselves who have to deal with the very same harsh conditions would say the same and never consider doing such a thing. I'm really beginning to feel sorry for you now as you really are clutching at straws. Comparing forcing a child to go to school and forcing a child to suck your **** (which is what a lot of sick peados do?) I can see the benefit in forcing a child to go to school (even though it might not neccesarily be the right thing at such a young age for every individual) but can't see the benefit in forcing a child to satisfy a grown man/woman's sexual desires.

    i'll repeat again that you must be an attention seeker, not for posting a comment, but for what you're actually saying. if anything you should take it as a compliment that i actually have faith that you can't genuinely believe the ****e you're writing and are instead just posting it for effect.
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    (Original post by BellaBoo)
    I don't like it when Middle Easterners get classed as terrorists either. My Granddad was from the "middle East" or South Asia (not sure what category it comes under) and from a country that is probably more associated with terrorism than any other in the world and it would hurt me if anyone referred to him as a terrorist. So i agree with you there. But that wasn't your point. You clearly stated that people over here had no right to condemn Somali pirates who kidnap and extort money off innocent people (because apparantly "they are doing it to survive"-because yes, we all need hundreds of thousands of pounds to survive don't we?) and even had the cheek to imply that they (and therefore most other British people) somehow DESERVE it! And yet again you still haven't explained how this is the case!

    Yes people have irrational thoughts, but you said that when you were unemployed the thought crossed your mind to rob people. I don't think it's completely unbelievable that most people would not think of taking out their anger/frustration on other innocent people! Maybe saying you were evil for contemplating it was a bit harsh (tbh you come across as more of a misguided idiot than evil) but for sure the Somali pirates who kidnapped those innocent people and nearly raped the old lady *are* pure evil. And i'm sure that most Somali people themselves who have to deal with the very same harsh conditions would say the same and never consider doing such a thing. I'm really beginning to feel sorry for you now as you really are clutching at straws. Comparing forcing a child to go to school and forcing a child to suck your **** (which is what a lot of sick peados do?) I can see the benefit in forcing a child to go to school (even though it might not neccesarily be the right thing at such a young age for every individual) but can't see the benefit in forcing a child to satisfy a grown man/woman's sexual desires.

    i'll repeat again that you must be an attention seeker, not for posting a comment, but for what you're actually saying. if anything you should take it as a compliment that i actually have faith that you can't genuinely believe the ****e you're writing and are instead just posting it for effect.
    No I said it wasnt unfair to condemn somali pirates without perhaps also condeming the oil companies who ruined their countries fishing resources in an already third world country. Yes some of them are pirates then go feed their family or community with the money they make, albeit living nicely which ultimately everyone wants to do. I said TWICE that I never said they deserved it but rather that its understandable.

    Lol no. The somalian people dont even understand the word "pirate" they are confused by the idea of a pirate because thats the western interpretation of it. I didnt say they were good or bad rather their human beings. Reffering to them rather than the acts they do as evil is judgemental. Its what allows people to go to the middle east and serve in the army and kill "evil" muslim. There is a quote by sun tzu author of the famous book the art of war "In order to go to war you have to make your enemy into an object." Which means making them look "evil" which doesnt really exist.

    I dont see why Im posting here. Its a waste of time. Its just me finding terms such as "evil" offensive and showing people that terrorism is only a subjective view. They may class themselves as freedom fighters and according to them they strongly believe it but according to governments they are terrorists..
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    (Original post by 9a3iqa)
    You do know that if the West leaves those countries alone terrorism will die don't you? After all there will be no justification to attack innocents.
    Just something I'd like to throw out there:

    The IRA didn't come from the Middle East :fyi:

    Point being, that terrorism isn't exclusive to that part of the world (or so to speak).
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    (Original post by aimz08)
    At the cost of how many lives ? Not to mention the damage to the infrastructure of an entire country?
    What's improved since the removal of the evil dictator?
    To engage in a hearty round of "what's improved?" does no good at all.

    What we know is, a man who was capable of great atrocities was deposed. He may well have commited other, more heinous crimes had he not been removed. Hence, there may well be invisible survivors, perhaps in the millions.

    Democracy was also installed there, and the people no longer have to fear (at least, for the most part) being taken to Saddam's torture rooms.
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    (Original post by sinbad23)
    Well I wish the evil dictators of these countries are also overthrown as well as America. I strongly doubt such a thing as democracy exists. All politicians are supported by the rich for the richs interest. One way or another there is a massive gap between rich and poor and great corruption that goes on. Even if most people in England never experience the effects of it. Although Im sure there really are. Why is it that weve had free energy for 65 years but still use Oil. Why is it that the owner of topshop dodges the same amount of tax that student fees have been cut by. Why is there such a shortage of jobs and employment maybe because the way the economys been depleted by banks, why are we sending troops to war when we cant even provide 25% of people under the age of 25 with employment.

    I would say governments are the worst terrorists or criminals. Not the average poor kid on the street who sells drugs to survive.
    I completely agree. Capitalism is flawed, Socialism is a wonderful idea. I would not dare to say that the poor deserve to be poor.

    "Free energy..." Fact is, it's not yet good enough to replace oil.

    Your last quote is ridiculous.
    Not all governments are like that, and that poor kid who sells drugs damages lives too.
 
 
 
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