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The Republic of Ireland shoud re-join the Union Watch

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    (Original post by StarsAreFixed)
    In theory, probably. In reality, no. We have had devolved parliaments before. All resentment aside, really nobody would vote for this, on either side. It would bring the UK down. No matter how much in debt we are or how abysmal our government is (ie. currently falling apart), this would not be considered. I cannot see us doing well for a long time! Corporation tax MUST be kept low if we're to recover at all. And the bailout is a loan, that's going to hinder recovery paying that back.
    Hypothetically speaking, if it did happen I don't think it would have all the same political issues it had before. Devolved governments are pretty standard in the UK now. Only England doesn't have one. So if it works for Scotland, I don't see why the same model wouldn't work for Ireland.

    But you're right about the fact that as it is now no one would support it. In Great Britain I'm sure most people would either be against it (like you say, they'd see it as bringing the UK down) or simply not care either way. I really don't think many people would actively support it. And I guess it goes without saying that almost no one in Ireland would support it.
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    (Original post by Peace'n'loveman)
    So the only identifiable advantage ,and a query associated with that (?),is freedom of movement.For the Uk freedom of movement has meant uncontrolled ,and unsustainable,immigration to a country that has an extreme housing shortage ,and has alienated even further an 'under/working 'class that has historically been more disadvantaged than any similar class in the developed economic countries. In return for this politicians have emigrated to the ultimate gravy train in the world ,outside of corrupt dictatorships, an organization where the auditors have refused to sign off the accounts for something like 12 years. There may have been small movement of highly paid ,highly qualified ,professionals for some euro uber-jobs.Also there has been a movement of british capital to large areas of france and spain where economic activity had been either non-existant ,or declining.
    Lucky Eire that can only change the constitution with referenda. British people have only ever voted to belong to a common market ,not to a federal europe.Do a survey of your friends and ask them who their MEP is,the answer will show how undemocratic the EU is.
    ps German money has bailed out Eire ,but it was cheap German money that created the Celtic Tiger in the first place.


    I know that, but many are nationalities outside of the EU, so it would stand to reason that immigration policy is more at fault than EU policy. The major advantage of freedom of movement is that you can up and move to spain, no problem, if you so wished. I know that Ireland has benefited much more than the UK has, but I don't think it should be written off just because of that. The advantages and benefits ARE there, should they be needed. This is important. I know it's easy to be disassociated with the EU since we don't live in mainland Europe and hear mainly about its bad ppints, but the good points should be remembered and I think they outweigh any sinister aspects of the EU.
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    (Original post by ThatCookieOne)
    I think the guerilla warfare would happen..
    And yeah but retaking over a country is new. I think.
    If it's not new, then it only adds to their reputation of being "that country".

    Anyway, I only wanted to say that little bit in my first post. Other than that, I don't want to get wrapped up in this debate!

    I think guerilla warfare is the wrong word. I think of poorly armed men hiding in mountains waiting for the British army trucks to come along when I hear that word...a la Wind that Shakes the Barley, Michael Collins etc. Perhaps 'renewal of Ira activity' makes more sense. I would think that would be a remote possibility hypothetically..but in reality no possibility at all since this would never happen.
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    (Original post by Psyk)
    Hypothetically speaking, if it did happen I don't think it would have all the same political issues it had before. Devolved governments are pretty standard in the UK now. Only England doesn't have one. So if it works for Scotland, I don't see why the same model wouldn't work for Ireland.

    But you're right about the fact that as it is now no one would support it. In Great Britain I'm sure most people would either be against it (like you say, they'd see it as bringing the UK down) or simply not care either way. I really don't think many people would actively support it. And I guess it goes without saying that almost no one in Ireland would support it.


    Nope, there would not be rampant corruption and a parliament composed exclusively of wealthy Anglo-Irish landlords. They are standard, but the association of Scotland/Wales with England goes back a long way. Scotland was somewhat unified with England in 1603, officially 1707. I have noo idea when Wales was, but it must have been by the time of the Wars of the Roses. There may be slight resentment over England's greater power nowadays but historically, these associations seem to have been remarkably amicable. Particularly when you consider Ireland's association, which had at the time somewhat similar landscape, language and feudal system. Just like the 'conquest' of Ireland differed massively to the union of the others with England, so would enacting a devolved parliament.
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    This may be a side off-topic; but what was / is the "Bail-out"?
    In Government Politics today, our Teacher (who's Irish) was talking about it. Saying he felt it was a bit ashamed by his Country of origin.
    Seen as we were talking about Nationalism (being proud of one's Country, etc), he simply said the above and nothing was said about it.
    You could see he was a bit miffed about Ireland being bailed-out; but what does / did it mean?

    Sorry if this is a bit nieve, but never really checked in that part of the News when it was headlines.

    Also, sorry this is a bit off-topic; maybe should've been my own Thread, but if we're talking about Ireland and the frankly (in my opinion) ridiculous idea that they should rejoin the UK, may as well throw it in. :dontknow:
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    (Original post by StarsAreFixed)
    I think guerilla warfare is the wrong word. I think of poorly armed men hiding in mountains waiting for the British army trucks to come along when I hear that word...a la Wind that Shakes the Barley, Michael Collins etc. Perhaps 'renewal of Ira activity' makes more sense. I would think that would be a remote possibility hypothetically..but in reality no possibility at all since this would never happen.
    Remember Kevin Barry
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    (Original post by StarsAreFixed)
    Nope, there would not be rampant corruption and a parliament composed exclusively of wealthy Anglo-Irish landlords. They are standard, but the association of Scotland/Wales with England goes back a long way. Scotland was somewhat unified with England in 1603, officially 1707. I have noo idea when Wales was, but it must have been by the time of the Wars of the Roses. There may be slight resentment over England's greater power nowadays but historically, these associations seem to have been remarkably amicable. Particularly when you consider Ireland's association, which had at the time somewhat similar landscape, language and feudal system. Just like the 'conquest' of Ireland differed massively to the union of the others with England, so would enacting a devolved parliament.
    In some ways the association between England and Ireland goes back long before the association between England and Scotland. England and Ireland shared a monarchy long before it unified with Scotland's monarchy.
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    You can have us if you fix the economy.

    I must say, most of the people I would know no longer care either way. Aaaand I'm possibly going to the UK for uni, so really, those old bigotries are fading. Huzzah.

    _Kar.
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    Oh, Lib, I do love watching you go about your work. Your bias is amazing to behold because you hide it so well.


    (Original post by StarsAreFixed)
    Why does this constant guerilla warfare thing keep appearing in posts! Really it is not a consideration these days.
    Are we ignoring the fact that the a fair number of the old Provos have formed a new paramilitary organisation? Are we also ignoring the fact that, despite your assertions to the contrary, the desire for a united Ireland runs strong in the South and that many of the IRA members come from across the border? I've even met ex members abroad who come from the South. You over simplify things.


    (Original post by StarsAreFixed)
    I think guerilla warfare is the wrong word. I think of poorly armed men hiding in mountains waiting for the British army trucks to come along when I hear that word...a la Wind that Shakes the Barley, Michael Collins etc. Perhaps 'renewal of Ira activity' makes more sense. I would think that would be a remote possibility hypothetically..but in reality no possibility at all since this would never happen.
    Yet, the IRA have waged a guerilla war on the British since The Troubles began. That you have a different interpretation of the word, doesn't stop it being a guerilla war.


    (Original post by StarsAreFixed)
    LOL yes the IRA are terrorists, I do think it should be remembered that they are a tiny fraction of the population and that there are also numerous terrorist organisations on the other side. I do think though that the IRA's former incarnations- IRB, Fenians, Ribbonmen had some merit..but the IRA are just scumbags.
    As there have been many on the Nationalist side: IRA, Prov IRA, Continuity IRA, Real IRA, INLA and the latest Óglaigh na hÉireann and others I can't be assed to name. Besides, which 'RA are the scumbags? The Provos were pretty decent as things go, so were the IRA. The Continuity and the Real are the ones who are rather dodgy.

    I'm an Irish Nationalist, it's well known on this site. Me and Lib butt heads on these kinds of threads all the time, but some of the **** my side spew at times is just moronic. Not totally getting at you StarsAreFixed, but you do need to reevaluate some of the opinions you have on your fellow countrymen.
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    (Original post by DH-Biker)
    This may be a side off-topic; but what was / is the "Bail-out"?
    In Government Politics today, our Teacher (who's Irish) was talking about it. Saying he felt it was a bit ashamed by his Country of origin.
    Seen as we were talking about Nationalism (being proud of one's Country, etc), he simply said the above and nothing was said about it.
    You could see he was a bit miffed about Ireland being bailed-out; but what does / did it mean?

    Sorry if this is a bit nieve, but never really checked in that part of the News when it was headlines.

    Also, sorry this is a bit off-topic; maybe should've been my own Thread, but if we're talking about Ireland and the frankly (in my opinion) ridiculous idea that they should rejoin the UK, may as well throw it in. :dontknow:

    It essentially is a massive fund that plugs the hole in our economy. It is €90 billion, 8 billion from the UK, the rest from the EU and IMF, with large contributions from France and Germany. I can't remember what the UK media were saying was the sterling figure- something near £70 billion? It's not a handout, and will be repaid. I personally think it's much better to take this bailout than the alternatives. What annoyed many Irish people was that almost to the day before, our Taoiseach (prime minister, who has since resigned) kept saying that we did not need a bailout, were not going to accept one and that we had enough money 'until mid 2011'- how reassuring... The head of the IMF was actually IN Ireland at the time of this ridiculous denial.
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    (Original post by Psyk)
    In some ways the association between England and Ireland goes back long before the association between England and Scotland. England and Ireland shared a monarchy long before it unified with Scotland's monarchy.

    True on both accounts, but this association was fraught with much more tension and hostility and marked with numerous uprisings and rebellions than the one with Scotland. Another difference was that the English did not understand the Irish and were just baffled at the different way of life. England and Ireland shared a monarchy because Ireland was forced to under the 1541 act, England and Scotland shared a monarchy because the king was the king of both countries.
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    (Original post by Hylean)
    Are we ignoring the fact that the a fair number of the old Provos have formed a new paramilitary organisation? Are we also ignoring the fact that, despite your assertions to the contrary, the desire for a united Ireland runs strong in the South and that many of the IRA members come from across the border? I've even met ex members abroad who come from the South. You over simplify things.
    I know that there has been a resurgence, I'm not ignoring that. I think you are overestimating this desire for a United Ireland. It does exist, but in what percentage? What does exist is a widescale indifference to the North in general, and a disregard of any possibility of a United Ireland. I have no doubt that there are IRA members from the South, I don't think they are in strong enough numbers to be worth noting. I think there is a massive difference in perspective from this side of the border, there really is no political or millitary tension regarding the North at all. I know I'm over-simplifying it, I know much more about further back history than this. The Troubles actually, are not taught in primary or secondary school. I do think a different perspective is neccessary. I am not a Nationalist in that sense, I do not see a point in any IRA faction that exists at all. I think a United Ireland is an impossible dream, and that much has been accomplished in the North anyway. I would call any IRA faction scumbags that deal in drug money, and any faction that persists in violence, terrorists.



    Yet, the IRA have waged a guerilla war on the British since The Troubles began. That you have a different interpretation of the word, doesn't stop it being a guerilla war.
    Yeah you're right, it just doesn't seem a word applicable to the modern situation for me.



    As there have been many on the Nationalist side: IRA, Prov IRA, Continuity IRA, Real IRA, INLA and the latest Óglaigh na hÉireann and others I can't be assed to name. Besides, which 'RA are the scumbags? The Provos were pretty decent as things go, so were the IRA. The Continuity and the Real are the ones who are rather dodgy.
    I would call any IRA faction scumbags that deal in drug money. I'm not sure what I'd call the ones that persist in violence but are not per se, scumbags. I don't agree with it.

    I'm an Irish Nationalist, it's well known on this site. Me and Lib butt heads on these kinds of threads all the time, but some of the **** my side spew at times is just moronic. Not totally getting at you StarsAreFixed, but you do need to reevaluate some of the opinions you have on your fellow countrymen.

    I am entitled to my own opinions. I think that the IRA will never acheive their aims, and should devolve. That's not to say that I should re-evaluate that. I am patriotic, just not millitantly so. I do not, obviously, have in-depth knowledge of modern IRA factions and my knowledge of the Troubles is patchy, only really learning about them from the news and recently in university. But I do have a great knowledge of other Irish history and I do think living all of my life in the South that I have some perspective over what is the general concensus about the North and a United Ireland. This is an unresolvable debate, just like any debate on Ireland with L i b!
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    (Original post by StarsAreFixed)
    True on both accounts, but this association was fraught with much more tension and hostility and marked with numerous uprisings and rebellions than the one with Scotland. Another difference was that the English did not understand the Irish and were just baffled at the different way of life. England and Ireland shared a monarchy because Ireland was forced to under the 1541 act, England and Scotland shared a monarchy because the king was the king of both countries.
    You never had the British army firing on you. I wonder can you speak Irish?
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    (Original post by RandyMann)
    Remember Kevin Barry


    Do you also remember who he killed? He was not plucked out of school to be hung you know. As far as reprisals went, that was a fairly fair one.
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    He is a saint. God Bless him. A remarkable young man and as brave as a lion. He is in Heaven. He loved his country and his God.
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    (Original post by RandyMann)
    You never had the British army firing on you. I wonder can you speak Irish?

    I doubt you have either, how does that make a difference? I can actually, I'm relatively fluent. Táim líofa go leor.
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    (Original post by StarsAreFixed)
    Do you also remember who he killed? He was not plucked out of school to be hung you know. As far as reprisals went, that was a fairly fair one.
    You are a traitor. You should be tarred and feathered.
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    (Original post by RandyMann)
    He is a saint. God Bless him. A remarkable young man and as brave as a lion. He is in Heaven. He loved his country and his God.

    Still worth remembering that at the age of 18 he shot and killed another 18 year old. Just to put a bit of context on your narrative of '18 year old saint hung by evil Brits'.
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    (Original post by RandyMann)
    You are a traitor. You should be tarred and feathered.

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    How many Nazis were killed by the British. That is the reality of war.
 
 
 
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