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    (Original post by Ruthi-SH)
    yes, but if he decided to deliberately slow down, tailgater and him crashes and people get killed I dont think many people would give a stuff about the law in that case when lives are lost. Both people are at fault, if they hadnt slowed down deliberately to pis off the tailgater then there wouldnt be an accident.
    I think there is a limit, but the tailgater is committing dangerous driving, the person who slowed is committing careless driving at best. To be honest, you could just say you were following the highway code which specifically says, slow down to increase the gap between you and the car in front. If the person behind crashes into you for that, you are pretty untouchable.

    Any crash where someone crashes into you from behind is very hard for fault to land on anyone other than the person who crashed into the car in front. If the car in front brake tested you that is different, but just slowing down would definitely not get any attention from the police.
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    (Original post by gbduo)
    I think there is a limit, but the tailgater is committing dangerous driving, the person who slowed is committing careless driving at best. To be honest, you could just say you were following the highway code which specifically says, slow down to increase the gap between you and the car in front. If the person behind crashes into you for that, you are pretty untouchable.

    Any crash where someone crashes into you from behind is very hard for fault to land on anyone other than the person who crashed into the car in front. If the car in front brake tested you that is different, but just slowing down would definitely not get any attention from the police.
    Thats what im getting at, the person who is tailgating is obviously doing something dangerous, but its equally as dangerous for the car in front to deliberately slow down jus tto piss them off. If they slow down because of something in front of them, such as distance between a car in front again, or something unexpected in the road then that is explainable and they have a damn good reason for it, they have no excuse to slow down just to piss off the tailgater, its also dangerous, irresponsible and idiotic. If you admit to the police that you slowed down just to annoy them and teacxh them a lesson do you think the police will look kindly on that?
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    I know, I've seen lots of this. Ridiculous that people don't drive according to the weather. Had someone tailgating us the other day.
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    Yeh but why on earth would you admit that!? You are in such a strong position if someone crashes into you from behind that you just stay pretty quiet.

    I am not saying brake test people, but there is nothing wrong with slowing down to increase a distance, or if the road is clear, slowing down to either allow a overtake or take the energy out of a rear end collision.
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    (Original post by gbduo)
    Yeh but why on earth would you admit that!? You are in such a strong position if someone crashes into you from behind that you just stay pretty quiet.

    I am not saying brake test people, but there is nothing wrong with slowing down to increase a distance, or if the road is clear, slowing down to either allow a overtake or take the energy out of a rear end collision.
    its hpothetical to show that its not right to slow down just to piss off a tailgater. If there is a valid reason behind slowing down then thats fine, just slowing down to annoy the driver is idiotic
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    (Original post by Ruthi-SH)
    Thats what im getting at, the person who is tailgating is obviously doing something dangerous, but its equally as dangerous for the car in front to deliberately slow down jus tto piss them off. If they slow down because of something in front of them, such as distance between a car in front again, or something unexpected in the road then that is explainable and they have a damn good reason for it, they have no excuse to slow down just to piss off the tailgater, its also dangerous, irresponsible and idiotic. If you admit to the police that you slowed down just to annoy them and teacxh them a lesson do you think the police will look kindly on that?

    You are 100% right, and (for once) Graham is 100% wrong.

    Who cares what the small print of the law says, if you deliberately drive in a dangerous manner and that leads to an innocent party dying, then you're the worst driver I have ever heard of.

    If this is you, then you should hand in your driving licence today and never darken our roads again. People make mistakes, and that's fair enough, but to drive dangerously on purpose? You should be charged with manslaughter in my view.

    I really, really hope that everyone who condones this behaviour visits a funeral this year of someone who died on one of our roads and stands up and explains why they think their actions would be justified to the family of the victim.
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    You are 100% right, and (for once) Graham is 100% wrong.

    Who cares what the small print of the law says, if you deliberately drive in a dangerous manner and that leads to an innocent party dying, then you're the worst driver I have ever heard of.

    If this is you, then you should hand in your driving licence today and never darken our roads again. People make mistakes, and that's fair enough, but to drive dangerously on purpose? You should be charged with manslaughter in my view.

    I really, really hope that everyone who condones this behaviour visits a funeral this year of someone who died on one of our roads and stands up and explains why they think their actions would be justified to the family of the victim.
    Thank you, I just wish more people out there understood that you should take care at all times while driving and realise that when youre taking driving lessons you have a qualified experienced instructor with you in the car at all times, its a whole lot different when you pass your test and are out in the car on your own and have to think on your own about what to do in these types of situations, always think what is the most sensible option to do. Especially in these snowy conditions which new drivers have never experienced before.
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    Peoples lack of patience is amazing, why carnt they just chill and drive slow instead of possibly ruining theres and someones elses christmas. Its young kids also that think this is ideal time to "show off".

    Some people would be better shown the science behind rubber and traction conditions, as some people really are clueless
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    (Original post by Ruthi-SH)
    Thank you, I just wish more people out there understood that you should take care at all times while driving and realise that when youre taking driving lessons you have a qualified experienced instructor with you in the car at all times, its a whole lot different when you pass your test and are out in the car on your own and have to think on your own about what to do in these types of situations, always think what is the most sensible option to do. Especially in these snowy conditions which new drivers have never experienced before.

    It really amazed me that people talk about "what you could get away with in court" after some poor sod has died as a result of their actions, and then view that as a responsible message to send to all the young drivers on TSR.
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    It really amazed me that people talk about "what you could get away with in court" after some poor sod has died as a result of their actions, and then view that as a responsible message to send to all the young drivers on TSR.
    I know which one I would think about more, spending a few years in jail or taking someones loved one away from them permenantly. Someone I went to school with overtook a car at speed on a blind corner, hit another car head on, killing one man, leaving a girl brain dead and another paralysed, he walked away with minimal injuries(a few broken bones) and he feels no remorse for it, he complains that he got so long for a jail sentence. People like this should be locked up for life imo.
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    (Original post by Gemma :)!)
    Don't you even step to the side when there's a car right behind you?
    It's not so bad now the roads have gone slushy, to be honest it wasn't people avoiding icy pavements that I had an issue with.. it was just people who were pretty much playing in the road.
    yh i walk on the pavements on the side, also hardly any cars come on my road so it doesnt matter
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    (Original post by High As A Kite)
    Most people dont flash to warn others of their presence, instead its a give way gesture which is confusing and can be deadly.
    and completely against EVERYTHING you are taught when you learn to drive and in the highway code. Flashing your light is to alert someone to your presence. Thats it.

    unwritten rules cause accidents as not everyone knows them.
    (Original post by gbduo)
    I think the police would be far more interested in the person breaking the law, than the person obeying the law and the highway code to be honest. No matter how many times you were caught 'doing it' you are still obeying the law and the highway code, thus meaning nothing will stick.

    The guy undertaking and acting like an idiot however...
    exactly. People fail to realise that maybe if they didnt act like a idiot in the first place then people wouldnt treat them like an idiot. You reap what you sow and i feel no guilt whatsoever making a rubbish driver look like an idiot.

    (Original post by Ruthi-SH)
    if someone is tailgating you you dont deliberately slow down because if an accident occurs it will be BOTH your faults.
    so why does the highway code and all road safety bodies advise you to reduce your speed and open the distance in front of you if its so dangerous????? I presume all these experts know nothing and you know it all??

    let me guess, you tailgate people??

    (Original post by Ruthi-SH)
    If someone tailgates you and youre on a motorway in the fast lane, move over when its safe, if you are on a single lane road and you are driving well below the speed limit and have a huge queue of traffic behind you pull over when its safe, i have done this many times while out on the road in a tractor.
    move over WHEN safe. On busy motorways with traffic in all 3 lanes it can be a considerable distance before it is safe and convienient to pull into lane 2 just so some impatient moron who doesnt understand that he wont actually get anywhere quicker by tailgating is doing that.

    (Original post by Ruthi-SH)
    Road safety isnt as black and white as what is in the highway code, you have to use sense and not think "oh im legally in the right here, i can do whatever i want"
    in the eyes of the law it is black and white. The whole situation would NOT occur if the individual wasnt tailgating in the first place. so its the tailgaters fault all from the start.

    as i said above you reap what you sow, so if your considerate from the start then people will be considerate to you. But if you drive like a **** then why are people surprised that people treat them like a ****?? its really not that hard to work out!
    (Original post by Ruthi-SH)
    yes, but if he decided to deliberately slow down, tailgater and him crashes and people get killed I dont think many people would give a stuff about the law in that case when lives are lost. Both people are at fault, if they hadnt slowed down deliberately to pis off the tailgater then there wouldnt be an accident.
    wrong. if the tailgater hadnt been tailgating then there would be no accident. Tailgating by its very nature is dangerous

    (Original post by gbduo)
    Any crash where someone crashes into you from behind is very hard for fault to land on anyone other than the person who crashed into the car in front. If the car in front brake tested you that is different, but just slowing down would definitely not get any attention from the police.
    exactly. Brake testing someone is a completely different situation. but even so, if someone in front of you did an emergency stop then its still always your responsibility to have kept a safe distance so even if you slammed on the brakes youd still get away with it.

    its only when you swerve from another lane/overtake and cut in slamming on the brakes that the person ramming you from behind is legally free of blame. Although that is very rare and mostly occurs as low speed insurance scams than something on a motorway.

    (Original post by Ruthi-SH)
    its hpothetical to show that its not right to slow down just to piss off a tailgater. If there is a valid reason behind slowing down then thats fine, just slowing down to annoy the driver is idiotic
    the valid reason is in the highway code, road safety!

    ALL drivers should stay calm and not rise to the bait of someone driving slow in front of you. If you cant control yourself then thats your problem, not other road users.

    (Original post by py0alb)
    Who cares what the small print of the law says, if you deliberately drive in a dangerous manner and that leads to an innocent party dying, then you're the worst driver I have ever heard of.
    its not dangerous in the eyes of the law. Slowing down is less dangerous as it means less energy in a crash.

    the person tailgating/undertaking dangerously holds full responsibility for the deaths as nothing would of happened had he driven in accordance with the highway code.

    if you cant keep calm when someones holding you up then maybe you should hand in your license! being angry and tailgating wont get you anywhere quicker. People will pull over when safe or when they feel like it. Tailgating wont change that except increase a chance of an accident.

    (Original post by py0alb)
    It really amazed me that people talk about "what you could get away with in court" after some poor sod has died as a result of their actions, and then view that as a responsible message to send to all the young drivers on TSR.
    the responsible message to send is that you shouldnt tailgate. Its a perfectly responsible message to send that if you treat others badly then expect the same treatment be it driving, in a pub etc etc

    too many morons drive like a idiot then when it comes a cropper fail to take personal responsibility as they thought it was ok to be speeding, tailgating or what ever.

    (Original post by Ruthi-SH)
    Someone I went to school with overtook a car at speed on a blind corner, hit another car head on, killing one man, leaving a girl brain dead and another paralysed, he walked away with minimal injuries(a few broken bones) and he feels no remorse for it, he complains that he got so long for a jail sentence. People like this should be locked up for life imo.
    let me guess, he had been tailgating and was pissed off or impatient at the slow driver he overtook?? and i bet he blames the slow driver for not getting out of his way.....
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    If someone's tailgating me and I dont have room to pull over, I tap my brake pedal a couple of times in quick succession. Not enough to engage the brakes, just to flash the red lights. This usually gets the message across!
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    I've only had a car since July but in that time I've racked up about 13K miles, so I'm not a new new driver. I'm willing to accept that sometimes I make mistakes!

    On the M62 I did pull into the inside lane in a gap I thought was larger- the driver behind flashed his lights at me and I flashed my hazards as an apology. Fair enough.

    About a mile later the same driver suddenly overtakes me and pulls into my lane by 1 foot and only my sharp braking and steering into the shoulder avoided a crash. I was so tempted to call the Police.
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    You are 100% right, and (for once) Graham is 100% wrong.

    Who cares what the small print of the law says, if you deliberately drive in a dangerous manner and that leads to an innocent party dying, then you're the worst driver I have ever heard of.

    If this is you, then you should hand in your driving licence today and never darken our roads again. People make mistakes, and that's fair enough, but to drive dangerously on purpose? You should be charged with manslaughter in my view.

    I really, really hope that everyone who condones this behaviour visits a funeral this year of someone who died on one of our roads and stands up and explains why they think their actions would be justified to the family of the victim.
    Hang on! Read my posts! I am not saying cause an accident on purpose, i.e. don't brake test someone. However, there is nothing wrong with slowing down and increasing the gap with the car in front, or slowing down and lowering the risk of a high energy rear ender if you did need to stop sharply.

    However, either way, and this is the important point, the law always is and always will be black and white, this is something to bear in mind when driving. Sometimes you are better off being in an accident rather being an accident.
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    (Original post by warrenpenalver)
    ...
    exactly. Brake testing someone is a completely different situation. but even so, if someone in front of you did an emergency stop then its still always your responsibility to have kept a safe distance so even if you slammed on the brakes youd still get away with it.

    its only when you swerve from another lane/overtake and cut in slamming on the brakes that the person ramming you from behind is legally free of blame. Although that is very rare and mostly occurs as low speed insurance scams than something on a motorway.
    I think what you've said in that post is generally true. However it's somewhat let down by an earlier post where it comes across that you think it's acceptable to slow down on a motorway (or similar) if there's a tailgater behind you. Let him move over to undertake and then you speed up so he can't undertake. I also get the impression that you'll do that several times.

    The initial slowing down is the right thing to do. However if there's enough space for the person behind to undertake there was probably enough space for you to pull over. If you didn't think it safe to move over and let them past then let them undertake you don't speed up until they've gone past. That way they are obviously in the wrong and you've done everything by the book.

    Of course if the motorway is really congested the rules are slightly different (in that the left hand lanes might be traveling faster than you and no one should change lanes) In that scenario your breaking could actually cause more issues further back. There have been a few surveys that show that one person breaking can cause a traffic jam (as everyone behind has to break a bit)

    (Original post by warrenpenalver)
    not in the eyes of the law. It is your responsibility to maintain a safe braking distance regardless of ANY circumstances. I can do what i want in front of you and if you hit me due to insufficient gap then its your fault.

    slowing down to annoy a tailgater cannot possibly cause an accident from my perspective. If the driver tailgating chooses to loose his temper and self control and drives like an idiot then its his responsibility alone for an accident as a result of his silly manouvres.

    in court i can happily stand there smugly stating i reduced speed in accordance with the highway code and when the tailgater was no longer behind me i increased speed again as i am legally entitled to. The tailgater will be legally in the wrong for a) tailgating, b) undertaking and of course any other offence caused by his idiotic driving leading to a crash.
    ...
    just as with "shutting the door" on drivers who fail to indicate, again i am always 100% in the clear legally as they have failed to signal their intentions and i have right of way.
    That reads that you'll take actions on a motorway to antagonize people who you believe are in the wrong.

    In terms of shutting the door. What if they've had to cut in on you because someone else has cut in on them which you didn't see. They might be trying to avoid the accident you've just caused.

    I've personally been in a situation where I had a lorry cut me up and without action on my part his back end would probably have been where i was sitting. It's not really an argument you want to take on. At that point my choice was to take action or be the victim of someone elses bad driving. I can't remember the details exactly but I think initially it was to slow down and move over into the fast lane. Did I check I had a space to move into: Very likely, did I indicate: probably not (or only as I made the maneuver).

    From what you've said above it sounds like if you had been in the fast lane behind me you'd have tried to close the gap for me to move into thus causing an accident.
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    (Original post by gbduo)
    Hang on! Read my posts! I am not saying cause an accident on purpose, i.e. don't brake test someone. However, there is nothing wrong with slowing down and increasing the gap with the car in front, or slowing down and lowering the risk of a high energy rear ender if you did need to stop sharply.

    However, either way, and this is the important point, the law always is and always will be black and white, this is something to bear in mind when driving. Sometimes you are better off being in an accident rather being an accident.
    It was comments like this that concerned me:

    To be honest, you could just say you were following the highway code which specifically says, slow down to increase the gap between you and the car in front. If the person behind crashes into you for that, you are pretty untouchable.

    Any crash where someone crashes into you from behind is very hard for fault to land on anyone other than the person who crashed into the car in front. If the car in front brake tested you that is different, but just slowing down would definitely not get any attention from the police.
    Yeh but why on earth would you admit that!? You are in such a strong position if someone crashes into you from behind that you just stay pretty quiet.

    Is the potential for being able to get away with a certain act really that relevant compared to the likelihood of causing a potentially fatal crash? Should we even be talking about whether or not you could get away with something when someone's life is on the line?

    You sound a little like one of those reckless drivers who kills someone on the motorway and then announces: "I am very sorry... that I got caught and lost my licence... I wish I could go back in time and redo things... this time I would say I was following the highway code".
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    (Original post by shark67)
    Don't let idiots like that affect your driving. You're infront so you're in charge, the ******** can wait.
    This is a terrible attitude. Idiots absolutely should affect your driving, as you should be continually anticipating what they might do.


    (Original post by warrenpenalver)
    I deliberately antagonise tailgaters. I usually pull over into lane 2 or 3 when safe to do so as you are required to do, but idiots, mostly in german cars who tailgate get special wind up treatment. If they are that impatient that they cannot keep a safe distance then i will slow down in accordance with the highway code and watch their rage build. That will teach them. and then when they go for an undertake i will floor it so theyve no where to go. act like an idiot and you will be treated like one by me. maybe one day they will wonder why people are ********s towards them on the roads and think "maybe it was me who caused it"

    the people who try and cut in with no indicators get the same disdain. You know, you see them sizing a gap up no indicators or nothing so i close the gap and they give you the most evil look. Well, if you had the common decency to use your indicators then chances are if it was safe i would have let you in. I never let in people who dont use indicators. Its a matter of principle. Again one day eventually they might realise that no one lets them in unless they indicate.
    Likewise, an appalling and unsafe attitude to driving. Just because there are people being tits on the roads, that isn't justification for you to cause an accident. I'd be interested to see how you cope when the time comes that you see one of these drivers crash and die because you closed a gap that they were going into.
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    It was comments like this that concerned me:






    Is the potential for being able to get away with a certain act really that relevant compared to the likelihood of causing a potentially fatal crash? Should we even be talking about whether or not you could get away with something when someone's life is on the line?

    You sound a little like one of those reckless drivers who kills someone on the motorway and then announces: "I am very sorry... that I got caught and lost my licence... I wish I could go back in time and redo things... this time I would say I was following the highway code".
    Right.

    The facts of the matter is, the tailgater is in the wrong. If you slow down, you are following the highway code and you are in the right. If by you slowing down you somehow cause a fatal crash because the driver behind you was travelling too close, that is not your fault, unless you brake tested that driver, you cannot take any fault for the other drivers action.

    If you sped up, conceded to his wishes then you are breaking the law, if you stay at the speed you were going at then if you did have to brake hard then the rear end impact would be harder and the chance of a fatality greater. If you slow down, then that impact would be less hard, much more chance of both parties surviving and furthermore, the driver slowing is in the right. The tailgater will forever be breaking the law.

    And because of those simple facts, you will not got any grief in court or by the police, other than to prosecute a dangerous driver.

    This is all assuming you did not brake test him or stop suddenly and inappropriately.

    And to be fair, at most speeds other than motorway speeds, the chance of a fatality in a modern car is pretty low.
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    We have this thread every year, its getting very tedious now.

    Advice;

    Slow down
    Increase distance to car in front
    Fit winter tyres
    Dont be a ****
    Drive otherwise normally
    Keep calm and carry on

    What makes it so difficult? Oh yeah, people saying stuff like "Ive only had a car since July, but im not a new driver". Um.... yes, no matter how many miles you covered over summer you have ZERO experience of driving in snow, so take your attitude and shove it. Anyway, where I am its, 30 degrees and sunny, so dont have to worry about **** student drivers and **** english weather.
 
 
 
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