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Andy Grey says that Messi couldn't cope in the EPL Watch

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      (Original post by dnumberwang)
      He still dives a lot, you can't argue with that, plus I'm just prejudiced towards the whole spanish team because I hated them during the world cup
      There is a difference between diving, and not staying on your feet when you get hit.
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      (Original post by S-man10)
      There is a difference between diving, and not staying on your feet when you get hit.
      Personally I think Iniesta, and quite a few from the Spanish team, are more guilty of the former
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      (Original post by Barça)
      Barcelona are not the top4, though our game is different. It's based on possession and pressure to the point where we are stand out team in the world. Sure we may have to battle but we did so against Espanyol who probably put up with the most physical game this season and they got spanked 5-1. The only way Stoke would make it difficult is park the bus a la Chelsea/Inter/United etc. if they tried to play football it would end in a mauling.
      Stoke wouldn't try to 'play football' though so it wouldn’t be that simple. Imo Espanyol wouldn't give the sort of test that Stoke would give them. It wouldn't just be a matter of keeping possession but also defending the throw ins well and dealing with Stoke's other aspects (that many/all La Liga sides don't possess, even Espanyol).

      Barca are a great team and I'm sure they'd probably win at the end of the day but let's not underestimate Stoke (and let’s not overrate Barca – considering their away record outside La Liga), Barca would have to turn up, especially defensivel). At the moment in La Liga, it seems like they can go out drinking 5 days a week then turn up on Saturday/Sunday, beat the other team by 4 or 5 goals, then go home. Same can be said for Real.

      (Original post by Charzhino)
      Exactly, Andy Gay is promoting thuggery will outshine class and technique. Yeah why Stoke, why not Blackburn or Bolton?
      Teams like Stoke/Blackburn (under Allardyce)/Bolton (under Allardyce) don't exist in La Liga. You can call it 'thuggery', others will call them 'organised sides who can shock you if you're not on your game'. Don't want to get in a which-league-is-better discussion but there is less tactical variety in La Liga, imo.
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      (Original post by Mastermind`)
      Stoke wouldn't try to 'play football' though so it wouldn’t be that simple. Imo Espanyol wouldn't give the sort of test that Stoke would give them. It wouldn't just be a matter of keeping possession but also defending the throw ins well and dealing with Stoke's other aspects (that many/all La Liga sides don't possess, even Espanyol).

      Barca are a great team and I'm sure they'd probably win at the end of the day but let's not underestimate Stoke (and let’s not overrate Barca – considering their away record outside La Liga), Barca would have to turn up, especially defensivel). At the moment in La Liga, it seems like they can go out drinking 5 days a week then turn up on Saturday/Sunday, beat the other team by 4 or 5 goals, then go home. Same can be said for Real.
      So Stoke would cause us problems because of throw ins? They would probably receive their lowest ever throw in count if they played us, especially at our half so I think you're exaggerating their threat from this. What other aspects of their game aren't possessed by La Liga teams?

      I thought the problem against Stoke was their physicality? this talk about Barca having to turn up defensively is nonsense. We have kept clean sheets against teams that are of higher attacking quality and organisation than Stoke. .Stoke are pathetic compared to the attacking teams of La Liga, look at a team like Real Madrid they barely got a sniff. Either way they'd be more concerned with defending than attacking to be honest. Possession is not only an attacking quality, it's a defensive one. So I'm fairly confident that Stoke wouldn't be able to muster up a fight with 30% possession.

      You say that Barcelona at the moment can score 4-5 goals every week because of the quality of defending. However the quality of defending was never questioned about EPL teams last season where Chelsea would put 6-7 goals past teams several times, one of them being a top 4 contender in Villa. Also Chelsea scored more league goals than Barcelona and Real Madrid last season, must be because of the poor defending in the EPL eyy?
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      (Original post by Charzhino)
      I really can't understand this hype about Stoke troubling the top teams in the world. Why Stoke City. They dont have any world class players or play decent football, there just an average premier league team. Below average in fact. Theyr'e just a team from a miserable north english city where the weather is often cold and the people are poor. Does that make them hard for some reason..
      It truly boggles the mind doesn't it :facepalm2:

      Imagine the uproar if I say United, Chelsea etc. would struggle against Malaga because of their dirty football. You wouldn't hear the end of it :rolleyes:
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      (Original post by Barça)
      It truly boggles the mind doesn't it :facepalm2:

      Imagine the uproar if I say United, Chelsea etc. would struggle against Malaga because of their dirty football. You wouldn't hear the end of it :rolleyes:
      I think what Andy Grey said re Messi is a load of **** but the rest of la liga is a fairly awful compared to the rest of the Prem League

      Sid Lowe, columnist for the guardian and their chief correspondent on Spanish football admitted this on Monday by saying that if you got a dream team comprised of the best from the other 18 teams in the Spanish League they'd have little to no chance of managing to come 2nd, its just that if you use the example of a Spanish team other than the big two there's a good chance they'll just be dire

      Not saying that makes Stoke good, but the rest of Spain is kinda ****
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      (Original post by Barça)
      So Stoke would cause us problems because of throw ins? They would probably receive their lowest ever throw in count if they played us, especially at our half so I think you're exaggerating their threat from this. What other aspects of their game aren't possessed by La Liga teams?

      I thought the problem against Stoke was their physicality? this talk about Barca having to turn up defensively is nonsense. We have kept clean sheets against teams that are of higher attacking quality and organisation than Stoke. .Stoke are pathetic compared to the attacking teams of La Liga, look at a team like Real Madrid they barely got a sniff. Either way they'd be more concerned with defending than attacking to be honest. Possession is not only an attacking quality, it's a defensive one. So I'm fairly confident that Stoke wouldn't be able to muster up a fight with 30% possession.

      You say that Barcelona at the moment can score 4-5 goals every week because of the quality of defending. However the quality of defending was never questioned about EPL teams last season where Chelsea would put 6-7 goals past teams several times, one of them being a top 4 contender in Villa. Also Chelsea scored more league goals than Barcelona and Real Madrid last season, must be because of the poor defending in the EPL eyy?
      The focus they place on set-pieces, their physical nature, etc. There is nothing like Stoke in La Liga. I'm not saying they would receive loads of throw-ins or have more possession than Barca. But the tactical variety of teams in the EPL is better than La Liga, no? Some would argue this is a good thing (those who aren't football purists).

      It isn't just their physicality. Talking about Barca having to turn up defensively is not nonsense, you do have to be well-organised defensively to defend these set-pieces. I'm not talking about the attacking quality of Stoke, but they offer a very unique opposition to what Barca are up against week in week out, no? The times Stoke have faced the 'big' teams, who hold the most possession on average, they've averaged around 40% possession. Stoke do press a lot, Copenhagen did quite a lot of closing down themselves and were successful in disrupting Barca's passing game. Stoke aren't in the same calibre but they do a good job. Anyway, Stoke is not an easy place to go and Barca's away record isn't that flattering, certainly not often that they play teams off the park away from home outside Spain.

      I'm not questioning the quality of defending in La Liga but Barca do face similar sides each week basically, there isn't much variety in La Liga. Would a defence of Valdes, Alves, Puyol, Abidal cope that well in the air? Pique himself was dodgy during his time at the Man Utd. Most of the defending in the EPL is shocking, never suggested otherwise. As for Chelsea, they lost 6 games last season, Barca lost 1. But maybe Barca are just a great team, even if they were in the EPL they'd win it, but I think they'd face more different types of teams tactically.
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      (Original post by a_t)
      I think what Andy Grey said re Messi is a load of **** but the rest of la liga is a fairly awful compared to the rest of the Prem League

      Sid Lowe, columnist for the guardian and their chief correspondent on Spanish football admitted this on Monday by saying that if you got a dream team comprised of the best from the other 18 teams in the Spanish League they'd have little to no chance of managing to come 2nd, its just that if you use the example of a Spanish team other than the big two there's a good chance they'll just be dire

      Not saying that makes Stoke good, but the rest of Spain is kinda ****
      Everytime somebody makes a statement then every aspect has to be taken into account. Something Sid Lowe hasn't done and this is why.

      Barcelona/Real Madrid squads contain

      - The last 4 Balon D'Or winners
      - 13 players of the WC 2010 winners
      - The last 4 top scorers of the Champions League
      - 2 of the last 3 European Golden Boot winners

      The sheer talent in both these teams alone is alot better than an EPL XI, a Bundesliga or an Italian one. This shows that Barcelona and Real Madrid possess most of the best talent in the world so it is only logical to assume that they would quite easily beat the best of the other 18 teams in La Liga.
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      (Original post by Mastermind`)
      The focus they place on set-pieces, their physical nature, etc. There is nothing like Stoke in La Liga. I'm not saying they would receive loads of throw-ins or have more possession than Barca. But the tactical variety of teams in the EPL is better than La Liga, no? Some would argue this is a good thing (those who aren't football purists).

      It isn't just their physicality. Talking about Barca having to turn up defensively is not nonsense, you do have to be well-organised defensively to defend these set-pieces. I'm not talking about the attacking quality of Stoke, but they offer a very unique opposition to what Barca are up against week in week out, no? The times Stoke have faced the 'big' teams, who hold the most possession on average, they've averaged around 40% possession. Stoke do press a lot, Copenhagen did quite a lot of closing down themselves and were successful in disrupting Barca's passing game. Stoke aren't in the same calibre but they do a good job. Anyway, Stoke is not an easy place to go and Barca's away record isn't that flattering, certainly not often that they play teams off the park away from home outside Spain.

      I'm not questioning the quality of defending in La Liga but Barca do face similar sides each week basically, there isn't much variety in La Liga. Would a defence of Valdes, Alves, Puyol, Abidal cope that well in the air? Pique himself was dodgy during his time at the Man Utd. Most of the defending in the EPL is shocking, never suggested otherwise. As for Chelsea, they lost 6 games last season, Barca lost 1. But maybe Barca are just a great team, even if they were in the EPL they'd win it, but I think they'd face more different types of teams tactically.
      The issue of tactical variety is an interesting one, I guess it does take adaptation or simply just being tactically astute (something which Pep is).

      Because you agree that the defending in the EPL isn't the beacon of light I can't fault your arguments.

      We aren't great in the air but we've coped well enough beforehand, as I said Barcelona do not concede many free kicks near the box or corners so it wouldn't be a huge stumbling block. Pique is alot better in the air today tbf, he's no Puyol but not a weak link like he used to be.
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      Well here are a few things I find hard to argue against:

      - The English Premier League is more physical than La Liga.
      - The English Premier League has better defenders than La Liga.
      - The English Premier League is more competitive than La Liga.

      It is going too far to say that Lionel Messi wouldn't cope in the Premiership.

      But without any doubt, I think he would find it harder to produce the consistency of brilliance here in the Premier League than in La Liga. He would probably be injured a lot more here too.
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      (Original post by Barça)
      Everytime somebody makes a statement then every aspect has to be taken into account. Something Sid Lowe hasn't done and this is why.

      Barcelona/Real Madrid squads contain

      - The last 4 Balon D'Or winners
      - 13 players of the WC 2010 winners
      - The last 4 top scorers of the Champions League
      - 2 of the last 3 European Golden Boot winners

      The sheer talent in both these teams alone is alot better than an EPL XI, a Bundesliga or an Italian one. This shows that Barcelona and Real Madrid possess most of the best talent in the world so it is only logical to assume that they would quite easily beat the best of the other 18 teams in La Liga.
      Yeah you make a compelling case, didn't think about it that way

      (and I didn't neg that post)
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      (Original post by hass147)
      Well here are a few things I find hard to argue against:

      - The English Premier League is more physical than La Liga.
      - The English Premier League has better defenders than La Liga.
      - The English Premier League is more competitive than La Liga.

      It is going too far to say that Lionel Messi wouldn't cope in the Premiership.

      But without any doubt, I think he would find it harder to produce the consistency of brilliance here in the Premier League than in La Liga. He would probably be injured a lot more here too.
      Here are a few things I find hard to argue against.

      - The Spanish League is more technical than the the EPL
      - The Spanish League has better attacking players than the EPL
      - The top 2 teams are stronger than the top 4 in England.

      There is always another side to a story.
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      The more important question is how Messi would cope against a proper drugs test. My guess is that he'd be thrown into prison as the disgraced cheat he deserves to be known as.
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      Messi could probably rape the EPL. The Premier League really isn't as physical as everyone thinks and they try to kick the **** out of Messi wherever he goes.

      Andy Grey has always been an idiot anyway :yy:
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      (Original post by Barça)
      Here are a few things I find hard to argue against.

      - The Spanish League is more technical than the the EPL
      - The Spanish League has better attacking players than the EPL
      - The top 2 teams are stronger than the top 4 in England.

      There is always another side to a story.
      Of course La Liga is more technical, they don't have any physicality whatsoever in comparison to Serie A and the EPL. That means the likes of Messi and Ronaldo have more space to do what they do best. I disagree with the better attacking players part, or that the top two are stronger than the top four.

      Real Madrid have done nothing in the Champions League for the best part of six years. Whilst English teams have dominated the competition in that time, Arsenal and Liverpool have knocked Real Madrid out of the Europe in that time too.

      The attacking players argument isn't a straightforward one, looking at the quality of the Premier League's attack going from all of Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal, Spurs, Man City, Aston Villa and Everton... There is class in abundance there. In La Liga, I can't see past Barca, Madrid and Atletico for real top drawer attacking sides.

      Barcelona are the best club side in the world right now, without a doubt. Chelsea however were hit by the biggest farce in recent CL history when six decisions went against them. If that referee had done his job properly on just one of those occasions, Barca wouldn't have won that Champions League trophy in 2009 and an English club would have. I guess karma worked it's magic the following year when Pedro's goal was disallowed against Inter, but hey.

      I don't find it hard arguing against those last two points. I like La Liga, but it's just two teams who are government funded, winning practically every game (save for one or two surprises) other than against one another.
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      (Original post by hass147)
      Of course La Liga is more technical, they don't have any physicality whatsoever in comparison to Serie A and the EPL. That means the likes of Messi and Ronaldo have more space to do what they do best. I disagree with the better attacking players part, or that the top two are stronger than the top four.

      Real Madrid have done nothing in the Champions League for the best part of six years. Whilst English teams have dominated the competition in that time, Arsenal and Liverpool have knocked Real Madrid out of the Europe in that time too.

      The attacking players argument isn't a straightforward one, looking at the quality of the Premier League's attack going from all of Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal, Spurs, Man City, Aston Villa and Everton... There is class in abundance there. In La Liga, I can't see past Barca, Madrid and Atletico for real top drawer attacking sides.

      Barcelona are the best club side in the world right now, without a doubt. Chelsea however were hit by the biggest farce in recent CL history when six decisions went against them. If that referee had done his job properly on just one of those occasions, Barca wouldn't have won that Champions League trophy in 2009 and an English club would have. I guess karma worked it's magic the following year when Pedro's goal was disallowed against Inter, but hey.

      I don't find it hard arguing against those last two points. I like La Liga, but it's just two teams who are government funded, winning practically every game (save for one or two surprises) other than against one another.
      Messi thrives in small spaces, more so than large spaces. Your argument that La Liga has more open space than the Premiership thus it is easier to score doesn't hold up. The record of Spanish teams in Europe against their English counterparts completely refute your point.

      You are looking at Real Madrid from a 6 year span, I wasn't. This Real side is easily one of the best teams in Europe.

      You cannot see past Barcelona, Real Madrid and Atletico Madrid for attacking talent just reveals your own ignorance. Here are the top attacking talents in La LIGA, they are overall of higher talent than their Premiership counterparts. No idea why you included Aston Villa when their strikeforce consists of Agbonlahor and Heskey out of all people. Laughable.

      Messi
      Ronaldo
      Ozil
      Iniesta
      Pedro
      Di Maria
      Higuain
      Villa
      Aguero
      Forlan
      Luis Fabiano
      Kanoute
      Nilmar
      Rossi
      Navas
      Llorente
      Soldado
      Pablo Hernandez
      Benzema

      The last point about Madrid and Barcelona being funded by the Spanish government sums your post up.
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      (Original post by hass147)
      Of course La Liga is more technical, they don't have any physicality whatsoever in comparison to Serie A and the EPL. That means the likes of Messi and Ronaldo have more space to do what they do best. I disagree with the better attacking players part, or that the top two are stronger than the top four.

      Real Madrid have done nothing in the Champions League for the best part of six years. Whilst English teams have dominated the competition in that time, Arsenal and Liverpool have knocked Real Madrid out of the Europe in that time too.

      The attacking players argument isn't a straightforward one, looking at the quality of the Premier League's attack going from all of Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal, Spurs, Man City, Aston Villa and Everton... There is class in abundance there. In La Liga, I can't see past Barca, Madrid and Atletico for real top drawer attacking sides.

      Barcelona are the best club side in the world right now, without a doubt. Chelsea however were hit by the biggest farce in recent CL history when six decisions went against them. If that referee had done his job properly on just one of those occasions, Barca wouldn't have won that Champions League trophy in 2009 and an English club would have. I guess karma worked it's magic the following year when Pedro's goal was disallowed against Inter, but hey.

      I don't find it hard arguing against those last two points. I like La Liga, but it's just two teams who are government funded, winning practically every game (save for one or two surprises) other than against one another.
      :lolwut:
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      (Original post by hass147)
      Of course La Liga is more technical, they don't have any physicality whatsoever in comparison to Serie A and the EPL. That means the likes of Messi and Ronaldo have more space to do what they do best. I disagree with the better attacking players part, or that the top two are stronger than the top four.

      Real Madrid have done nothing in the Champions League for the best part of six years. Whilst English teams have dominated the competition in that time, Arsenal and Liverpool have knocked Real Madrid out of the Europe in that time too.

      The attacking players argument isn't a straightforward one, looking at the quality of the Premier League's attack going from all of Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal, Spurs, Man City, Aston Villa and Everton... There is class in abundance there. In La Liga, I can't see past Barca, Madrid and Atletico for real top drawer attacking sides.

      Barcelona are the best club side in the world right now, without a doubt. Chelsea however were hit by the biggest farce in recent CL history when six decisions went against them. If that referee had done his job properly on just one of those occasions, Barca wouldn't have won that Champions League trophy in 2009 and an English club would have. I guess karma worked it's magic the following year when Pedro's goal was disallowed against Inter, but hey.

      I don't find it hard arguing against those last two points. I like La Liga, but it's just two teams who are government funded, winning practically every game (save for one or two surprises) other than against one another.
      The EPL isn't exactly vastly different. Chelsea and Manchester United have been the two dominant teams over the last 6 years. Only Liverpool have come close to breaking that .

      The fact is that La Liga is just as competitive as the EPL. The statistics show that.
      On average over the last years there have been less points between 1st and 6th Place in La Liga than in the EPL.

      You just need to look at this years Ballon D' Or list to show the current gulf between the two.
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      (Original post by DorianGrayism)
      The EPL isn't exactly vastly different. Chelsea and Manchester United have been the two dominant teams over the last 6 years. Only Liverpool have come close to breaking that .

      The fact is that La Liga is just as competitive as the EPL. The statistics show that.
      On average over the last years there have been less points between 1st and 6th Place in La Liga than in the EPL.

      You just need to look at this years Ballon D' Or list to show the current gulf between the two.
      Okay. I'll presume you came up with these specific observations yourself.

      What are you trying to show via these facts?

      What statistics did you do? Are you sure they're valid?

      Can you elaborate on the Ballon D'or bit I don't get it?
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      (Original post by n1r4v)
      Okay. I'll presume you came up with these specific observations yourself.

      What are you trying to show via these facts?

      What statistics did you do? Are you sure they're valid?

      Can you elaborate on the Ballon D'or bit I don't get it?
      Probably that La Liga isn't some sort of joke/soft league that the EPL followers think.

      The Balon D'Or bit is probably to show that La Liga has always possessed the better players, ever since it's inception, same goes for WPOTY.
     
     
     
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