For instance:No-one is (or rather I personally am not) saying atheism makes people kill just like no-one is saying Islam or Christianity makes people kill because of their religion. Rather, we are trying to say that some people take their religious (or anti-religious) beliefs to what they *believe* is the logical conclusion of violence for the sake of "the means justify the ends* and this is how terrorism is born about.You're simply picking incidences where atheists were involved in killing people, and saying "arh, atheism makes people kill".This is circular logic.Hitler was a vegetarian, presumably vegetarianism is a sick cult of death?
Which has more power at the moment: atheism/secularism or religion? Watch
- 26-12-2010 18:28
(Original post by AnarchistNutter)
- 26-12-2010 18:52
Yeah I read all your posts so far. You are not denying atheists can be murderers; what you are denying though, is that atheists can kill in the name of their cause (the active disbelief in God or religion in general) or try to abolish religion coercively. I won't elaborate on this though, I just don't see what there is to argue with.For instance:
An example. And yes, they have done.No-one is (or rather I personally am not) saying atheism makes people kill just like no-one is saying Islam or Christianity makes people kill because of their religion. Rather, we are trying to say that some people take their religious (or anti-religious) beliefs to what they *believe* is the logical conclusion of violence for the sake of "the means justify the ends* and this is how terrorism is born about.
You're looking at this from the point of view "oh, they're terrorists. They must have done this-that-and-the-other" .... when, in fact, they are doing nothing more than all the other religious folk.This is circular logic.
(Original post by Lord Hysteria)
- 26-12-2010 19:30
I have to disagree, and I am happy to defend my position. I also don’t see how you have added anything to the discussion, with respect.
The charge on this thread is that atheists have committed violence, BECAUSE OF atheism. Obviously, there have been atheist murderers. That is obvious – but to say that “atheism” (as a belief) mandates violence is an unfounded claim. And I am here to dispute such nonsense.(Original post by Lord Hysteria)
I appreciate what you’re saying about Islam, but I think you’re misinformed about its nature – although, I am glad you recognise it as a political ideology too (something I have been saying endlessly to TSRian dullards). Not sure, how it is “economical”- at least, by the definition of economics as a discipline. But I’m happy, also, to go into some detail for you.
and other stuff, what do you think of Islam then?
From what I have read it is a very intrusive thing, that seeks to control everything in that persons life and then the life of a community and then a nation. I am a Christian I really value the society we have in the UK, in which we have been gifted with free speech and much individual liberty, something which I do not see in the Islamic world as much. Mind you what I have read on islam is mostly by a guy called Patrick Sookhdeo, he wrote something on the Islamification of Britain which was fascinating, but I am not sure how you would view it from your atheistic (thats right isn't it?) perspective.(Original post by Lord Hysteria)
I would also dispute the charge that antitheism is itself a “new” position. There have always been people who have had – like me – such sentiments. However, under the religious environments of the 18th century etc … it would have been political & social suicide.
(Original post by Lord Hysteria)
- 26-12-2010 20:53
It's not just that though. It is about the actual "cause" itself. Theism is a body of morals and codes by which how we ought to live our life - according to God. What is the atheist body of rules? They don't have any. Thus, when an atheist kills, it is not because of his atheism (as it would be if he was a theist). He kills because his moral code says so, and his individual ethical beliefs make it acceptable for him.You really haven't read my posts. Religion doesn't make anyone do anything. The interpretation makes people do whatever they think it says.
But by the same token, though, if one believes that the ends justify the means then one's own interpretation of atheism who acts in an aggressive manner upon any religious institution - it is their own interpretation of the belief that causes them to act that way, rather than the set of beliefs that is atheism itself.You're looking at this from the point of view "oh, they're terrorists. They must have done this-that-and-the-other" .... when, in fact, they are doing nothing more than all the other religious folk.And that only strengthens my case ....
This thread of discussion started because the user JCC-MGS corrected another user who stated that it was only religion that caused suicide bombing. He did not say it was the interpretation of atheism rather than atheism itself but you decided to be pedantic over nothing.
Last edited by Luceria; 29-12-2010 at 13:29.
- 29-12-2010 13:11