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Clever people in the navy/armed forces...... is it really worth it??

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Wzz

As mentioned, it does. You're older, more mature, have sat out a 3 or 4 year scheme of training without getting bored and giving up, have a bit more experience, and have hopefully spent the majority of your time on a UAS.

The main thing recruiters like in this situation is that you've shown you have what it takes to pick a subject and stick with it; you went to university with no-one forcing you to and you completed it. Compare that to someone who, say, joined the navy, lasted a year, then gave up.... who's a better risk for putting up with the rigours of 6 years' worth of flying training plus holds?

I can ring a couple of QFI mates at Linton, Cranwell and Valley and actually tell you how many grads vs non-grads make it to FJ training and pass it. The last BFJT course I had anything to do with only had 2 non grads on it.

So, non-graduates, you have to face that, statistically, graduates do better through training. Live with it; it was your choice not to go to university.

Dude, I wasn't trying to start a fight (as the tone of your reply would indicate), I was simply asking how going to Uni could make you a better pilot. I do accept your point about how it helps you sit in a classroom and absorb whatever is required, no matter how mundane or irrelivent it may appear, but there is more involved than that, surely, which gives DE folks the same chance to shine?

The personal dig was a nice touch too, even though you don't know my circumstances. What if I said I had a very good career, signed for a very well respected DJ Agency and the most successful British Hardcore record label, ever? The fact I gave all this up to join the Navy - as something I'd always been interested in, take a very considerable pay cut, and hinder my chances of ever getting on the DJ circuit again, says something about my commitment to joining the forces. I was I/C of my squad, and was one of not many to be selected for 'fast-track' promotion to PO. The fact I gave all this up, to go back to education and a further pay cut - I hope shows my commitment to rejoin as an Officer. So, I take offence to the 'gave up' comment, because I've done anything but give up. Personally, I think given the chance, I will indeed make a good Pilot and/ or Officer. I am not naive and believe I'm the best, and I appreciate that there will be people out there who are a lot better than me, at becoming a Pilot and an Officer. My point is, I believe I have (I hope) a good enough standard to become a Pilot.

Wzz

The immature attitude is the one that not having a degree through choice somehow makes you a better person. You learn a very VERY great deal going through university, even if your final qualification is golf course management!

Can't speak for everyone, but as I've already typed up, people come from different backgrounds with different situations. Can't tar every non-grad with the same brush. :wink:

Wzz

Fine, you have a backup now. Like most early twenties ex-DEs who are chopped, I'd be willing to bet you wouldn't take it. Either way that just leaves you as a larger training risk with less pay; so please stop trying to claim that not having a degree is better. It's your choice, yes, but it's certainly not better.

Just wondering, if you're chopped at a late stage in your FJ training would you still be dropped to RW then ME? If your dropped from ME, would you be offered perhaps another branch, say groundcrew? Just seeing as you've proven yourself to be a good Officer having passed through Cranwell, it'd be a shame to just chuck you out the RAF?

Raptor

You WILL be in the minority with your views so try not p*ss off too many people.

Why? Freedom of speech and all that. Because he is the minority, does not mean he is wrong?

Raptor

I have visions of you going down really well at IOT

Atleast he isn't scared to go against the grain and say what he actually thinks. A very good quality, in my humble opinion. :smile:

Wzz

That's a fairly offensive, unnecessary, and unpleasant post. Take a defensive attitude like that through training and you won't have to worry about your streaming.......

So was the RTF reply statement.

Raptor

Rotters,

I hope you're not on my section; do you think I'm ****ing stupid

An e-thug. Nice.

Wzz

Some might say it was a sign of common sense?

Nah, I don't dish out apologies. On here or out there. I accept that some will think I'm very arrogant, slightly cocky, and almost certainly controversial. But nah, I wouldn't have said common sense; admitting defeat only leads to someone gaining confidence/ the upper hand - and I don't like that. I know most will totally disagree with this, just a little insight into my personality. :smile:

Reply 101

threeportdrift

Careers Forum Helper

And relax

I was about to get myself all hot and bothered with this thread and try again to give certain people some tried, tested and proven advice. But then I looked at the title and realised that they were never going to actually be in the position of having to worry about this issue. With the attitudes displayed, neither cleverness, nor the Armed Forces, either combined or individually seems to be something these people should worry about. :eek:

So, back to those who are serious about serving .......

Reply 102

futureaussiecto

mole

I do not agree with the comments made previously, Getting a degree as already mentioned is no guarantee to a good and well paid job. Ill graduate in the summer with a masters in civil and structural engineering and as such have been inundated with job offers. However, none of these compare with the total military package. Only by working in London will you start on anywhere near £30K and if you look at the stats the avaerage starting salary for a graduate is around £18K.

no offence- but its only 18k because of the 50 or so universities that shouldnt even exist, this is why the average is only 18k! Beach studies etc??

Well i was told for a few of my departments that have given me offers that the average salary is atleast 30k.

I only care about money because that is what is going to feed any family that i have- not for myself!

ps sorry for not checking this as soon- didnt realise the thread would be so popular!

Reply 103

futureaussiecto

Rotters

I don't have a degree does that mean im not clever?

when did i say that?

Just because all red cars are clean doesnt mean all clean cars are red!

I never said people without degrees are dumb!

Reply 104

KiwiMagic

futureaussiecto

So, you'll be an Oxbridge graduate with a first class degree with distinction then?

Reply 105

futureaussiecto

Christ i had to put this post because of so many "a degree doesnt make you more intelligent" posts.

firstly, yes it does IF its from a good university. I realise that many people may not go to uni and they may be very clever. But it still remains that university/degree is a certificate of intelligence/patience/knowledge.

But the fact is labour are so stupid they have degraded the whole system and now a degree isnt valid without knowing where it came from, to see if it shows good intelligence.

Reply 106

Romper

futureaussiecto

So what exactly are you planning on studying and doing afterwards? :confused:

Reply 107

futureaussiecto

Romper

So what exactly are you planning on studying and doing afterwards? :confused:

my offers are

UCL Maths
UCL Compi Sci
Warwick Maths
Imperial- Information Systems Engineering

Either Foreign & Commonwealth office, navy or finance. I prefer the first two because i would get to travel etc, the latter is simply a money-grabber.

Reply 108

big_pd

I appear to have missed all the arguements which is a shame cos i love a bit of banter. I feel a lot of people here are missing the point. It makes no difference to your inteligence if you have a degree or not. Inteligence can be tested from a young age and is a natural thing so not much you can do about it.

I am no more intelligent now than when i left school at 15 with my 5 GCSE's. As it happens my IQ is 156 and I was a lazy **** at school, which goes to show you can't judge. I now have a BSc(hons) which was a piece of piss but it doesn't make me any more inteligent!

A degree just shows you can aplly yourself for a set period of time and complete the tasks unassisted to gain a certificate. The most you will gain from Uni is the life skills which is why it helps people when they join the forces and generally gives them an advanatge over college entrants.

If you feel the need to continue argueing please do cos i find it very funny! :biggrin:

Reply 109

CKinnerley

Of course, we don't actually have a set definition for what intelligence is anyway, which makes things a bit more sticky. IQ is all well and good, but if you ask me, contrary to its name, it doesn't really measure how clever someone is. Some would say the opposite of course, but in the end it's a matter of opinion.

Reply 110

GR4pilot

Go on, I'll be the one to say differently, IQ does give a measure of intelligence, however it is a largely narrow and relitively meaningless one. For instance in the 60s a Psychologist gave the same IQ test to some kids from privelaged and unprivilaged backgrounds - the privilaged recorded massively higher results but it was because many of the culture based questions were on the works of Mozart etc. Thus the less privilaged kids were not less intelligent - just less inclined to know what the testers expected them to because the tests were written by consultant Psychologists who sit quite happily in the upper-middle class bracket.

In addition it's widely regarded now that there are a number of different types of intelligence in that your mind can have you predisposed to a particular activity, be it maths, general knowledge or a physical activity. Hence the difference in hemespheric useage between those more academically or artistically inclined.

On the topic of thread - i have to agree with both points; degrees have been stupified. I have met some of the most incredibly stupid people a universities like DeMontfort and Lincoln (although those on the UAS from Lincoln were anything but :redface:

) and perhaps the bottom 50 or so should just be scrapped. On the other hand going to uni does offer a lot and if it wasn't for my family and financial circumstances I certainly would already have a degree under my belt. As for life experience though I have to say that I have far more than I would have had if I'd gone to uni at 18 - Having spent the last 3 years negotiating with people of varying mental health conditions, on a lower income than those on the dole and starting a family; the last year, whilst at uni, has in fact provided the period of least (non-accademic) growth of my life.

Reply 111

CKinnerley

GR4pilot

Well I knew there'd be one :p:

If you were to ask me to define how intelligence should really be measured I'd say an aptitude test along the lines of the AST, the OASC set and a standard IQ test mixed together. Combine that with some philosophical discussion about the after life, abortion, euthenasia etc and then maybe a few brain scans to see what's going on biologically to round things off. You could go on forever really suggesting ways to calculate and define it, but to me those would be the kinds of things that would provide some good solid evidence.

Reply 112

futureaussiecto

the whole post was only basically-

for clever people, if its not the pay then why do you wanna do it?

Then i go and get slated for saying people with degrees are not neccessarilly more clever lol

oh well!

Reply 113

threeportdrift

Careers Forum Helper

"The fast-track courses will be piloted at Staffordshire University, Derby University, Leeds Metropolitan University, University of Northampton and The Medway Partnership in Kent. "

This is bound to offend someone, but testing it out in such highly reputable, quality educational establishments, how on earth are they going to be able to detect dumbing down????

Reply 114

Raptor

futureaussiecto

You do it (Pilot that is, can't comment on other branches) because it's frankly one of the best jobs available that has no civillian equivalent, with the exeption of, say, a professional racing driver. As the only racing drivers that make money are in F1, that wasn't an option. So (potentially, long way I know..), flying fast jets is the best job available to me as that is what exites me. Why do you think so many city types end up topping themselves? It's not fun.

Also, the pay is not that bad. I think, with the exeption of Oxbridge grads, 50K is not bad for an early thirties bloke.

Reply 115

futureaussiecto

Raptor

What about Imperial Computing/Electronics grad?

Reply 116

big_pd

futureaussiecto

What about Imperial Computing/Electronics grad?

What about it?

Reply 117

Raptor

futureaussiecto

What about Imperial Computing/Electronics grad?

I couldn't care less about electronics/computing - I like speed and feeling G force.

Reply 118

threeportdrift

Careers Forum Helper

http://www.prospects.ac.uk/cms/ShowPage/Home_page/How_much_could_I_earn_/Salary_and_vacancy_FAQs__2_/How_do_graduate_starting_salaries_differ_by_employers__industries_/p!eXeacLp

Eng or Industrial Company Salary 20kpa
IT Hardware/Software Company 21kpa
Armed Forces 25kpa

Reply 119

futureaussiecto