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    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    AO, still don't know why you care even if all you say is true, and a British identity is lost. You won't lose yours, your family won't lose theirs, etc. How the hell do you think that a whole nations identity will be lost, considering the percentage of white people in Britain, the concentration of minorities into smaller areas, and the amount of people who like the "British culture" and will pass it on to their own children? You are way to hyped up over mothing.
    If you read a little more closely you'd know I'm not primarily concerned with the British angle, but with the English and racial angle, and you're right -- some will retain the traditional identity which others have eschewed. The point is that those who retain the traditional identity have been disenfranchised. What was theirs without question just a few decades ago, is now considered equally the property and domain of Pakistanis and Nigerians, say, who retain very strong identification with Pakistan and Nigeria, and as matter of routine, consider their ethnic and community interests in Britain as distinct from the native Brits.

    Further, when any of the Old Brits speaks of their distinct ethnic interests in a way that is common and acceptable (even officially encouraged) for the New Brits, they are instantly and uniformly denounced as racist, supremacist, Nazi etc. Witness this thread and the "BNP reforming" thread, where contrary to your congratulations to Sol, he and others turned constantly to false stereotypes about nationalism, and chose not to debate what was actually at issue, the smears were easier.

    You also have a too hopeful belief in the ability of such disparate groups to get along. They don't, and Britain has needlessly created a racial and religious cleavage which makes a unified society of equals and mutual goodwill unlikely to impossible.
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    (Original post by Chumbaniya)
    To me, it sounds as if your real quarrel is more with the way the government deals with immigration than with the immigrants themselves.
    I do not blame the immigrants for coming, but no matter how pleasant they are or how well behaved I do not want them here, because like most of them I am an ethnic-nationalist. Like them I want my homeland to remain a place for my people, unlike them I do not hypocritically move to someone else's land and engage in political and cultural lobbying to transform the politics and the public national identity of the host nation (this is true of all the major immigrant groups except the Chinese and to a lesser extent the Indians, who everywhere in their diaspora tend to keep their heads down and work hard, but stay out of politics and cultural pursuits).
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    (Original post by Chumbaniya)
    Like the sarcasm Johnny - a pity the racist bigots won't appreciate it.
    The resort to ad hominem and smear in this thread is about the worst I've ever seen on TSR.

    A bigot is someone intolerant of opinions opposed to his own. I've said again and again that I think you guys who would choose multicult as ideal be allowed to, but you really ought to allow those who believe it to be folly the right to retain the traditional British community and identity. Jeesh!
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    (Original post by Chumbaniya)
    To me, it sounds as if your real quarrel is more with the way the government deals with immigration than with the immigrants themselves. Aside from a very small number of (usually muslim) extremists, no immigrants come to this country and expect that they can override the existing culture. All they expect is the right to maintain their own culture once they arrive, and this does no harm to the British people.

    It's the government, and to a certain extent the media, which are the biggest cause of culture based conflict. Because of the way the government is handling immigration, the public are encouraged to think about immigrants as something alien rather than just normal people - political correctness creates a massive rift between racial/cultural/relgious groups because each group fears that the others will take offence at anything they say, so people tend to stay in the same ethnic groups rather than integrating.
    I agree and disagree. Blaming the government is spot on - did anyone else read about that Muslim protest in London in defence of Christmas? (be the BNP didn't put it on their website!) It's a shame it should have to come to that when Christmas is so imbedded in our culture (be it the christian or pagan celebration).

    I also agree about immigrants not wanting to overide the indiginous culture. However, in some ways, maintaining cultural traditions can be just as problematic. Take language for example. How rediculous would it be if every immigrant group chose to simply keep their own language rather thank learning English? Another interesting statistic, which is probably propaganda, is that 40% of British Muslims agree that Sharia law should be implemented in some parts of Britain. Hypothetically, as our society stands at the moment there isn't much of an argument against that. It seems perfectly logical that if you're going to take everyone's religious and cultural considerations into account in order to avoid offence, it seems perfectly logical to allow groups to judge each other through their own legal traditions, rather than impose English law on them. Once again, i'm not saying any Muslim who wanted this would be an evil individual trying to destory society, i'm just saying that it is the logical conclusion of our current stance on multiculturalism.
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    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    That's fine. I don't know what you have in mind but it has no relevance to anything I've posted here.
    Actually it has everything to do with what you said. You said that there is one definable British "white" culture, and that there are local variations. I responded by stating that I see many contradiction in these so called 'local variations'

    It's nothing to do with you Sol, govts, media, business elites, other prominent powers are pushing this. You aren't even in Britain as far as I know. Don't put words...
    A bit of a tardy clarification, innit? And I am in Britain as a student. I am just as much for a strict and logical immigration policy as anyone else, but I have problem with you ideas of 'race & culture'.

    Which idea of a single race is that Sol? The Japanese have Ainu in their lands, and made no attempt to wipe them out. They went abroad not to wipe out all other races, but to subjugate them. Like the Romans, the British Empire and others that you posted earlier as positive examples!
    Wow, your History is just aweful. As I said, you might want to read some real History books, not Yggdrasil or whatever. The Japanese have long continued to look down on the Ainu. They still face heavy discrimination, and in the past the Japanese have pushed them further and further north. The governments of the past have tired to strip them of their language, identity and heritage. And concerning the Japanese and their world 'conquest'...... READ!!!! Look at the atrocities they commited around Asia and you will see that they attempted to wipe out the 'lesser races.' Massacres in China, Biological experiments in Manchuria, and all this was done under the official policy that 'these races are subhuman'. Grow up Arthur and read. Stop throwing the same sentences at me again and again. Give me some hard truth facts and evidence and debate instead of throwing insults at every fact I have given you.

    The Romans were interested in land conquest, but not racial subjugation. In most cases conquered people were offered citizenship, and their culture was adopted and spread throughout the Empire.

    Sol, you are redrawing the rules as you go. The Manchus and thye Han were two different peoples. That's why you raised them in the first place!Common cultural traits in common are irrelevant. You can say that same for practically all peoples today. They wear T-Shirts, so....(so what?)
    My point was that there was no 'dominant' culture. Both have coexisted toghether and contributed to one another until one culture arose. That was my point about multiculturalism.

    Yea, nice one. The separatist wants to subjugate.
    Separation involves subjugation. And that is more easily proven than your ideas of racial and cultural 'pollution'.

    Makes sense.I say multicult. I know what the multicultural ideal is. I know too that it's impossible. That's why you couldn't find any examples.
    Of course it is an ideal. You will never find a perfect blend. Look at the UK, even before immigration. Britain had several cultures, all of which shared some traits, but even now there is no perfect mix. People in Northern Wales are going to have different cultural traits that those from Swansea. Likewise I doubt that Yorkshire folk are ever going to blend perfectly with a Cornish culture. I have a friend who moved from Sheffield to Bristol when he was two, but he feels like a native Sheffielder (he even has the maintained the accent).

    Yea, look at what I've highlighted. It's correct. Klan, apartheid, and Hitler, nice work Sol!
    They should be complementing you for keeping their ideas alive.

    I may be incorrect in some of my positions, but I'm open-minded and willing to debate and explore. But all you've offered Sol is prejudice and bigotry and a lot of confused history and conflicting evidence.
    Open minded! You make me laugh. You have stated that people cannot assimilate because of race. You have stated that races should be kept apart. And with half the rubbish you say here, you have the nerve to accuse me of pedjudice, bigotry, confused history and conflicting evidence. I hope I never have to come across you in person. You would probably decide who and what I am by the colour of my skin or "what race I may look like." You would probably have it in your head that I don't belong based on my race.
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    Originally Posted by Chumbaniya
    Like the sarcasm Johnny - a pity the racist bigots won't appreciate it.
    The resort to ad hominem and smear in this thread is about the worst I've ever seen on TSR.

    A bigot is someone intolerant of opinions opposed to his own. I've said again and again that I think you guys who would choose multicult as ideal be allowed to, but you really ought to allow those who believe it to be folly the right to retain the traditional British community and identity. Jeesh!
    That was not an ad hom. In no way did he say that x's arguments are invalid because x is a racist bigot. It's just his opinion that some posters are racist bigots.

    I know you like to bandy trite phrases around, but at least try to use them correctly, although you are of course used to crass accusations.
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    (Original post by SolInvincitus)
    The Romans were interested in land conquest, but not racial subjugation. In most cases conquered people were offered citizenship, and their culture was adopted and spread throughout the Empire.
    Although, at the same time there was a certain primacy of Roman culture, was there not? Its also worth pointing out that despite Japans..interesting...stance on multiculturalism, despite recent economic troubles they're still doing pretty damn well.
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    I would like to make a point, especially to AO. I have nothing against Nationalism, in fact I am completely for it. I also completely agree with you that there is a problem with many immigrants and an immigration policy that allows people to arrive here, segregate themselves fomr our society, all while they reap the benefits of this nation. I believe that Britons, regardless of ancestry, should all seek to preserve and perpetuate Britains long and glorious history, identity and her cultures. I dislike PC, and am really very conservative.

    What I have a problem with, however, are concocted racial arguements that are not only demeaning to people who are victims of their inevitable results, but also dangerous as history has proven time and time again.

    When it comes to newcomers, I also believe that they must be offered a culture in order to accept it. Only if our immigration policy emphasises assimilation and integration can Britain be spared from the strife that has plagued many societies around the world where seperate communities fail to interact and integrate.
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    (Original post by Andronicus Comnenus)
    Although, at the same time there was a certain primacy of Roman culture, was there not? Its also worth pointing out that despite Japans..interesting...stance on multiculturalism, despite recent economic troubles they're still doing pretty damn well.
    The case of Rome is very complex. There was always a primacy of one Roman Culture, true. But that culture was always changing and adapting, and most of that culture was derived from several prexisting cultures. In addition, many cultures were constantly mixing and changing around the Roman Empire, especially new ideas and civilizations from the east.

    Also Japans success at the present has nothing to do with racialism in the least bit. The Japanese government and society as a whole has perpetuated the values of thrift, hard work and loyalty to the system. Korean minorities, many of whose ancestors arrived in Japan many decades ago, and the Ainu, who are the natives of Japan that have been drivne north and suppressed, cannot be said to have shared in Japan's prosperity to the same extent as the Japanese majority.
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    (Original post by SolInvincitus)
    Actually it has everything to do with what you said. You said that there is one definable British "white" culture, and that there are local variations. I responded by stating that I see many contradiction in these so called 'local variations'
    This is incorrect or dishonest.
    ...but I have problem with you ideas of 'race & culture'.
    Then you ought to have a little more consideration for my time and state them, perhaps we could then debate something other than the accuracy of your stereotypes.
    Wow, your History is just aweful. As I said, you might want to read some real History books, not Yggdrasil or whatever. The Japanese have long continued to look down on the Ainu. They still face heavy discrimination, and in the past the Japanese have pushed them further and further north. The governments of the past have tired to strip them of their language, identity and heritage. And concerning the Japanese and their world 'conquest'......
    That doesn't contradict anything I said in response to your comments on Japanese conduct in WW2, which -point being- had nothing to do with ethnic-nationalism, but more relevance to imperialism, so clashed with your favourable view of the Romans and the British Empire.
    READ!!!! Look at the atrocities they commited around Asia and you will see that they attempted to wipe out the 'lesser races.' Massacres in China, Biological experiments in Manchuria, and all this was done under the official policy that 'these races are subhuman'. Grow up Arthur and read. Stop throwing the same sentences at me again and again. Give me some hard truth facts and evidence and debate instead of throwing insults at every fact I have given you.
    I do not believe the Japanese made any attempts to "wipe out the lesser races". I may be wrong, could you prove such schemes? If they did, that would still not change my view of today's Japanese and I wonder what relevance Japanese WW2 conduct has to any comment I've posted.
    The Romans were interested in land conquest, but not racial subjugation. In most cases conquered people were offered citizenship, and their culture was adopted and spread throughout the Empire.
    The Romans achieved land conquest by subjugation of barbarian races. Any individual or group who did not adopt "Roman culture" continued to be seen as barbarian. The parallels to those who would impose multiculturalism on the unwilling particularists and the Roman treatment of live-and let-live Germanics is striking. Is that why you hold them as examples?
    My point was that there was no 'dominant' culture. Both have coexisted toghether and contributed to one another until one culture arose. That was my point about multiculturalism.
    There are/were two cultures. The Manchu language and sense of separateness from the Han still just about lives.
    Separation involves subjugation. And that is more easily proven than your ideas of racial and cultural 'pollution'.
    False. The attempts -ongoing and likely doomed to fail- to make a solid political union of almost all the world's races and peoples in a New Britannia requires that the state subjugate the particularist separatist sentiment of many people.
    Of course it is an ideal. You will never find a perfect blend. Look at the UK, even before immigration. Britain had several cultures, all of which shared some traits, but even now there is no perfect mix. People in Northern Wales are going to have different cultural traits that those from Swansea. Likewise I doubt that Yorkshire folk are ever going to blend perfectly with a Cornish culture. I have a friend who moved from Sheffield to Bristol when he was two, but he feels like a native Sheffielder (he even has the maintained the accent).
    Yea, no doubt. I tend to gel more with people of a similar sense of humour and intelligence and cultural literacy than with people according to region, nationality or something else. But it's not individuals we're concerned with, but the big national and religious and racial iidentity-groups.
    They should be complementing you for keeping their ideas alive.
    Patently dishonest smears don't hurt me Sol, I was aware that such arrows would come my way when I decided to start treating Whites like I treat other races.
    Open minded! You make me laugh. You have stated that people cannot assimilate because of race. You have stated that races should be kept apart. And with half the rubbish you say here, you have the nerve to accuse me of pedjudice, bigotry, confused history and conflicting evidence. I hope I never have to come across you in person. You would probably decide who and what I am by the colour of my skin or "what race I may look like." You would probably have it in your head that I don't belong based on my race.
    I haven't stated the positions you claim I have, and you kept attempting to find apposite examples from history and kept failing, you also used some as positive examples whose conduct was paralleled by examples you claimed as negative. I had not noticed before this poor level of debate from you Sol.

    We're going round in circles. It's too time consuming. Goodwill, but enough!
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    (Original post by Johnny)
    That was not an ad hom. In no way did he say that x's arguments are invalid because x is a racist bigot. It's just his opinion that some posters are racist bigots.

    I know you like to bandy trite phrases around, but at least try to use them correctly, although you are of course used to crass accusations.
    I got used to it in the first few weeks, two months maybe that I was posting here, but it quickly faded and friendly debate became the rule.

    I know what ad hominem means and there's been a lot of it in this thread.
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    (Original post by SolInvincitus)
    The case of Rome is very complex. There was always a primacy of one Roman Culture, true. But that culture was always changing and adapting, and most of that culture was derived from several prexisting cultures. In addition, many cultures were constantly mixing and changing around the Roman Empire, especially new ideas and civilizations from the east.

    Also Japans success at the present has nothing to do with racialism in the least bit. The Japanese government and society as a whole has perpetuated the values of thrift, hard work and loyalty to the system. Korean minorities, many of whose ancestors arrived in Japan many decades ago, and the Ainu, who are the natives of Japan that have been drivne north and suppressed, cannot be said to have shared in Japan's prosperity to the same extent as the Japanese majority.
    the roman case certainly is complex, which makes comparison between them and us pretty difficult. I'd say the important difference between Roman culture and current British culture is that while Rome and Byzantium had an institutional appreciation for the dominance of their culture, a culture they were openly happy to adapt, it would often appear that in Britain the emphasis is on the primacy of other cultures and the belittlement of our own.
    Certainly, modern academics would definitley get into alot of trouble if they talked about their own culture in a similar way to Roman and Byzantine academics.

    Also, i wasn't saying that Japan has done well because they racist, i was just pointing out that Japan has done well despite its largely imbedded racism. im not really sure what to make of that.
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    (Original post by SolInvincitus)
    I would like to make a point, especially to AO. I have nothing against Nationalism, in fact I am completely for it. I also completely agree with you that there is a problem with many immigrants and an immigration policy that allows people to arrive here, segregate themselves fomr our society, all while they reap the benefits of this nation. I believe that Britons, regardless of ancestry, should all seek to preserve and perpetuate Britains long and glorious history, identity and her cultures. I dislike PC, and am really very conservative.

    What I have a problem with, however, are concocted racial arguements that are not only demeaning to people who are victims of their inevitable results, but also dangerous as history has proven time and time again.

    When it comes to newcomers, I also believe that they must be offered a culture in order to accept it. Only if our immigration policy emphasises assimilation and integration can Britain be spared from the strife that has plagued many societies around the world where seperate communities fail to interact and integrate.
    Your position is perfectly valid, but your support for nationalism seems to go against your comments in this thread.

    I don't know what you mean by concocted racial arguments, care to explain?

    The immigrant groups who have come here, regardless of official policy to them when they arrived, would have wished to retain their own cultural identities and religious and moral standards and beliefs (as in fact they did). Also, none would have wanted, and none do want, to see their groups absorbed into an amorphous, mono-cultural new British nation. Every single group overwhelmingly wishes for ethnic and racial continuity, and as we know from the rhetoric, votes, fundraising, and even military exploits of our minorities, there are no immigrant groups who wish for their homelands the anti-majority, anti-national, anti-historic, ethnic transformation they call for in Britain.

    (Like I said before the Chinese are not guilty of such hypocrisy, they tend not to agitate for such change)
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    (Original post by johnny)
    Well thats my point. As AO said earlier on (quite rightly), "every people around today developed from a mixing and an assimilation of countless other peoples". So given that there has always been a mixing of cultures and races, why should we seek to stop this now?
    I personally think it is because the 'white' race is a minority on the earth as a whole now, - the dilution of the 'white' race will only move us to a more darker race - possibily eventually an entire black race? Why should 'white' cultures become multicultural? Why not black countries if they're willing to accept multiculturalism? Does this make me racist? I know im not, I like British diversity as it is - literally, as, it, is - any further I think is threatening - again, am i racist Johnny? If you think I am, then I think you are the reason why the word 'racist' is losing calibre.

    . Crime has been lower in the 20th century than ever before in our nation's past, although why you feel that a rise in crime rates would be down to immigration beats me. Are you really that racist? Only other ethnicities, than your own, are capable of committing crimes?
    This comment makes no sense - so you admit crime was lower in the 1950's (hence 20th century) - or are you just saying its an obvious fact NOT related to immigration? - eitherway thanks for backing up my point - secondaly - I believe the serious crimes common today, rape, gang warfare, random murder, guncrime, terrorism, were influenced - the increasing black community in East London have been responsible for pioneering drug and gun crime in the UK - although we had some of the above crimes in the UK 50 years ago - they were not as common.

    Furthermore, 7/7 - surely if the UK had no ethnic minorities then 7/7 wouldn't have occured? Or am I still deluded? ...?...?....yes?....o'k..

    Well I suppose the definition of 'strong' itself is arguable, but lets go with the most tangible aspect: the economy, measured by GDP in international dollars.
    The economy affects the long term change to a country - in the 1950's Britain was well ahead of many MEDCs - economically - but this fluctuates. What about social 'stability' - Wasn't the UK safer, greener and much more closely knitt in the 50's? Didn't citizens feel apart of something bigger, a community, and didn;t communities feel apart of something bigger than that, the empire (or Commonwealth)? - wasn;t that a good time to be "Great British" - dropping your morals for a second - wasn't being British a piece of glory back then? didn't people feel apart of a successful family? Have you ever seen footage of the Queens coronation in '52? - Wouldn't it have been an exciting time when technology wasn't so accessible - didn't people just 'get on' and 'live together' then? Or do our grandparents lie to us?

    Maybe you know this underneath - but you are desperately trying your utmostly hardest to mask it - why? I will never know - maybe you are of ethnic decent - maybe you feel no affiliation to our glorious Britain - maybe you are simply a wind-up - or could you be just secluded and feel 'left out'? - who knows - I dont.

    Plus, British life expectancy is now at 78 years, higher than it has ever been.
    Due to medicin etc - doesn't necessarily mean those 78 years are fun and joy - and doesn't mean you live till your 78 because of immigrants. Your awesome y'know.

    Oh sorry, of course they're not. They're bang up to date within the scientific community, because every other article in academic publications supports "The Bell Curve" right?
    The scientific community? What one earth! - this is about social change - not scientific journals.

    I think that multiculturalism is a benefit to the UK. I couldn't care less how accepting other countries are of immigrants; I don't live there.
    I hate to say this, but I dont think the UK is going to carry on allowing our 'traditions' to be ever erased for the sake of new comers - we will continue to allow guests settle here - but in time I suspect we will become much more sensitive to what we hold on to before dismissing it. The UK likes immigration - but we wont ever settle for your idea of a 'coffee race' - your dreaming up some crazy fantasy which is, by human nature - impossible.




    Johnny - you are an intelligent person - but I think as you get older your views will recede - right now your the far-left equivalent of Hitler - both the far left and far right are dangerous errors of the Human - dont forget that - its all about compromise - much like the UK actually.

    Sleep tight.
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    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    The resort to ad hominem and smear in this thread is about the worst I've ever seen on TSR.

    A bigot is someone intolerant of opinions opposed to his own. I've said again and again that I think you guys who would choose multicult as ideal be allowed to, but you really ought to allow those who believe it to be folly the right to retain the traditional British community and identity. Jeesh!
    Haha. We should be allowed to believe in whatever ideoloogy we choose. You should be allowed to let your ideology and those who share it with you, have the say in what shape malleabe old Britain becomes next? It is our way now, and it always will be because, what a darn shame, your view only holds with a minority. And lets not take the people on this forum to be a population!

    It is really easy for you to say, "i accept your opinionbut" and then carry on with your rubbish, swatting aside any other opinion. It doesn't make you any less open-minded to merely state that you are before you spout your nationalism. And how funny that noone believes you are open minded at all.
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    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    Haha. We should be allowed to believe in whatever ideoloogy we choose. You should be allowed to let your ideology and those who share it with you, have the say in what shape malleabe old Britain becomes next? It is our way now, and it always will be because, what a darn shame, your view only holds with a minority. And lets not take the people on this forum to be a population!

    It is really easy for you to say, "i accept your opinionbut" and then carry on with your rubbish, swatting aside any other opinion. It doesn't make you any less open-minded to merely state that you are before you spout your nationalism. And how funny that noone believes you are open minded at all.
    Tolerance of how others would wish to live, and personal open-mindedness are two different things cm, and I do OK on both accounts.

    My point is that my side of the argument has been derided as the one which would impose restrictions and loss of freedom, and even wholesale subjugation of those unwilling to go with the nationalist programme. This is both incorrect and hypocritical, the separatist argument suits everybody and gives all sides what they want. Comprendez?
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    (Original post by Astor)
    I personally think it is because the 'white' race is a minority on the earth as a whole now, - the dilution of the 'white' race will only move us to a more darker race - possibily eventually an entire black race? Why should 'white' cultures become multicultural? Why not black countries if they're willing to accept multiculturalism? Does this make me racist? I know im not, I like British diversity as it is - literally, as, it, is - any further I think is threatening - again, am i racist Johnny? If you think I am, then I think you are the reason why the word 'racist' is losing calibre.
    What's your point here? That predominantly "black" countries should accept multiculturalism as well? But I've already stated that I couldn't care less what happens vis-a-vis other countries and their relations with their respective immigrants. Apart from that, this paragraph seems more like a neurotic ramble than cogent debate.

    This comment makes no sense - so you admit crime was lower in the 1950's (hence 20th century) - or are you just saying its an obvious fact NOT related to immigration? - eitherway thanks for backing up my point - secondaly - I believe the serious crimes common today, rape, gang warfare, random murder, guncrime, terrorism, were influenced - the increasing black community in East London have been responsible for pioneering drug and gun crime in the UK - although we had some of the above crimes in the UK 50 years ago - they were not as common.
    You earlier implied that crime was higher in today's society because of immigrants. I disputed this as a load of rubbish; crime has been lower in the last century than ever, we are just more aware of it today, mostly thanks to the modern media. Especially rags like the Daily Mail and the News of the World et al. Oh and what you believe to be the cause for serious crime is a non-starter.

    Furthermore, 7/7 - surely if the UK had no ethnic minorities then 7/7 wouldn't have occured? Or am I still deluded? ...?...?....yes?....o'k..
    Should we kick all the Irish out of Britain because of the Birmingham pub bombings carried out by the IRA in the 70s? What you are implying here is not just morally wrong but quite scarily authoritarian.

    The economy affects the long term change to a country - in the 1950's Britain was well ahead of many MEDCs - economically - but this fluctuates. What about social 'stability' - Wasn't the UK safer, greener and much more closely knitt in the 50's? Didn't citizens feel apart of something bigger, a community, and didn;t communities feel apart of something bigger than that, the empire (or Commonwealth)? - wasn;t that a good time to be "Great British" - dropping your morals for a second - wasn't being British a piece of glory back then? didn't people feel apart of a successful family? Have you ever seen footage of the Queens coronation in '52? - Wouldn't it have been an exciting time when technology wasn't so accessible - didn't people just 'get on' and 'live together' then? Or do our grandparents lie to us?
    What rubbish is this? Again I shall repeat what I posted earlier: "I fear that you were referring to a more rose-tinted view of the 50s where everyone knew each other and Britain was great. Prove it (as you weren't there)."

    Maybe you know this underneath - but you are desperately trying your utmostly hardest to mask it - why? I will never know - maybe you are of ethnic decent - maybe you feel no affiliation to our glorious Britain - maybe you are simply a wind-up - or could you be just secluded and feel 'left out'? - who knows - I dont.
    For the record I'm actually 100% British beef, all the way back for as many generations as I know of. But would my arguments really be less potent if I were not, as you imply? And you're not a racist huh?

    The scientific community? What one earth! - this is about social change - not scientific journals.
    The scientific community, by and large, rejects the ideas of The Bell Curve; racialist views are largely outdated. So don't "what on earth me!".

    I hate to say this, but I dont think the UK is going to carry on allowing our 'traditions' to be ever erased for the sake of new comers - we will continue to allow guests settle here - but in time I suspect we will become much more sensitive to what we hold on to before dismissing it. The UK likes immigration - but we wont ever settle for your idea of a 'coffee race' - your dreaming up some crazy fantasy which is, by human nature - impossible.
    I'm not dreaming up anything. Where did you get that from?

    Johnny - you are an intelligent person - but I think as you get older your views will recede - right now your the far-left equivalent of Hitler - both the far left and far right are dangerous errors of the Human - dont forget that - its all about compromise - much like the UK actually.
    Now I don't know about you but it really kills me that people are denied the chance to prove themselves just because their face doesn't fit ... some meritocracy eh? And I'm not the far left equivalent of Hitler at all.

    Sleep tight.
    ...don't let the bed bugs bite.
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    (Original post by Johnny)
    In various arguments with the BNP, the issue of the erosion of British culture as a result of immigration seems to rear its ugly head, time and again.

    However, when I put forward the idea that this is a 'buzz-phrase' used rather cynically (and incorrectly I might add) only to rouse emotional sympathies for the BNP among the general public, this is flatly denied. The culture of Britain really is under threat it seems, at least as far as the BNP is concerned.

    Thus we can conclude that the issue of "British culture" is important to some, if not all, members of the BNP. However when asked to define this remarkably nebulous concept, I am met only with the response that it is too difficult to define. But surely every political adherent must be able to defend their claims, even reactionary mercantilists like the BNP-ers?

    So quite simply I am looking for a definition of what constitutes "British culture", how it is under threat and subsequent proof of this erosion of "British culture", from the BNP supporters on this forum - flux, birchygreen et al.

    And please dont bother with comments like this:

    (http://thestudentroom.co.uk/showpost...&postcount=133)

    ... as these clearly hold no water.

    If no response is forthcoming from the BNP fans, then I will assume that you are using "the erosion of British culture" as an emotive buzz phrase to rouse peoples sympathies to your reactionary cause, which would be just another mistake by the BNP
    Are you saying that Flux's failure to define British culture means that there is in fact no such thing and the term is nothing more than a "buzz phrase"? Or do you personally think that there is such a thing as British culture?

    Now, if you think such a thing is a phantom idea can you put some meat on the bones of your argument and show us all how you arrive at this conclusion? Conversely, if you do agree with Flux that there is indeed such a thing as British culture would you like to share your definition of it with everybody?
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Are you saying that Flux's failure to define British culture means that there is in fact no such thing and the term is nothing more than a "buzz phrase"? Or do you personally think that there is such a thing as British culture?

    Now, if you think such a thing is a phantom idea can you put some meat on the bones of your argument and show us all how you arrive at this conclusion? Conversely, if you do agree with Flux that there is indeed such a thing as British culture would you like to share your definition of it with everybody?
    This was in my original post:

    I have never claimed that there is "no such thing as British culture"; far from it in fact. I believe that British culture is about rights of the individual and freedom that comes with our civil liberties. Thus denying civil liberties to others is fundamentally against British culture. You are in point of fact the one who is out to destroy british culture and all it stands for from where I'm sitting.
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    (Original post by Johnny)
    This was in my original post:

    I have never claimed that there is "no such thing as British culture"; far from it in fact. I believe that British culture is about rights of the individual and freedom that comes with our civil liberties. Thus denying civil liberties to others is fundamentally against British culture. You are in point of fact the one who is out to destroy british culture and all it stands for from where I'm sitting.
    So, you think British culture is about liberty (and presumably democracy)? Anything else? Is that all?

    With such a very narrow definition you ought to be able to have a jolly good stab at denying that British culture (liberty and democracy by your definition) is not being destroyed by immigrants.

    Although you lose anyway. One need only look at the reams and reams of legislation that vomits forth from Parliament each year that in fact curtail liberty to some extent that is a direct response to accommodating our immigrant population.

    Incidently, notions about liberty and democracy are pretty damned recent in the UK; do you not think that longevity ought to be considered when defining British culture?
 
 
 
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