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what would happen if people had a white or caucasian society at a university watch

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    (Original post by Agent Smith)
    Cambridge University Black Society. It's so all-encompassing it's essentially a non-white society!
    Can you provide a link to support this because, no offense or anything but I'm not willing to take your word for it. Thanks.

    If you're looking for a 'white' party though, why not join the BNP?
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    (Original post by Laika)
    Clearly you're having some difficulty with understanding me, or you're being wilfully ignorant.
    Or youre being convoluted.

    (Original post by Laika)
    I do not have a 'sole' differentation. If you want to argue for double standards against white people, because you think a 'White' society would be criticised, then produce an example of a 'Black' society in which the only criteria is race and not culture.
    But you object to a White society even if it is based on culture and not race? be consistent. Why do I have to show a black society based only on race (see below) while you object to a white society that has no such limitations?

    (Original post by Laika)
    I believe any 'black society' would be linked to the cultural qualities attached to that, not racial.
    Sigh. Ok - well to add to Agent Smith's post - how about this:
    http://www.blackgreeknetwork.com/ - "BGN was created to encourage nepotism among the African American community"

    (Original post by Laika)
    My argument against a 'white' society is that white people compose the majority of the country.
    How many arguments do you have? Either this is your argument or it is combined with the one above. Be clear.

    Anyway - for someone who lives in some parts of this country, their EVERYDAY life is one where whites are the minority. No mtter how many white people are on TV, they FEEL like a minority. No big deal to me, but that SHOULD satisfy your rather arbitrary criteria that Whites cant be in the majority.

    (Original post by Laika)
    Thus your daily life you would be living and experiencing the lifestyle of a 'white society'. There would be no need for a University Society counterpart other than to assert yourself and challenge what you see as double standards, which is evidently what you are doing.
    No it is not. As said- what if the society was set up to promote white cultures not to make a political point?
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    @Laika:

    I'm not sure if they have a website, but I could post you their "Little Black Book" as it calls itself. It's so full of everything non-white and non-Christian it fulfils all the stereotypes of the BNP. I'll get back to you on a link.

    Was that last line aimed at me, or a general rhetorical question?
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    (Original post by Agent Smith)
    @Laika:

    I'm not sure if they have a website, but I could post you their "Little Black Book" as it calls itself. It's so full of everything non-white and non-Christian it fulfils all the stereotypes of the BNP. I'll get back to you on a link.

    Was that last line aimed at me, or a general rhetorical question?
    No don't bother sending it to me, it's ok. I checked the Cambridge Society Website and I didn't see any mention of a Black Society, I did see various national and cultural societies 'Afro-Caribbean' for example.
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    Well, I can't help that - unless they've had a catastrophic split recently. All I am going on is the huge numbers of their leaflet that were just dumped in our Common Room.
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    http://www.blackgreeknetwork.com/ - "BGN was created to encourage nepotism among the African American community"
    What the hell kind of crap example is that? Firstly, it's an American group, I've already told you that using such examples is far off the mark considering the difference between the role of black people in American society and British. Clearly you've just Googled 'black societies' or something. Secondly it clearly is linked to a sense of national identity, hence the URL. Thirdly I was referring to a University Society, preferably based in Britain.

    Anyway - for someone who lives in some parts of this country, their EVERYDAY life is one where whites are the minority. No mtter how many white people are on TV, they FEEL like a minority. No big deal to me, but that SHOULD satisfy your rather arbitrary criteria that Whites cant be in the majority.
    Ok fine. Maybe they could walk 5 minutes down the road out of their neighborhood and experience the rest of Britain. For someone who has been a minority at one point you seem to express quite bizarre attitudes towards it, where even someone who belongs to an ethnic group composing 90% of the population can feel like an outcast! This whole thread is irrelavent to the topic anyway so lets move on.

    No it is not. As said- what if the society was set up to promote white cultures not to make a political point?
    Considering how many 'white' cultures there are (presumably we're talking about countries where the majority of the population is white), then it would seem pointless to set up such a group. I furthermore doubt the existence of any such equivalent group for black people.
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    (Original post by Agent Smith)
    Well, I can't help that - unless they've had a catastrophic split recently. All I am going on is the huge numbers of their leaflet that were just dumped in our Common Room.
    What's in it?
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    Not a lot, really! Just a lot of stuff on how not to get oppressed (by the Man?) that I feel sure would make any REAL person reading it feel terribly patronised. Ads for the Sikh, Muslim, Hindu and I think Buddhist Societies, groups and places of worship, because OF COURSE those are the only faiths that black people follow...

    That sort of stuff.
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    (Original post by Laika)
    What the hell kind of crap example is that? Firstly, it's an American group, I've already told you that using such examples is far off the mark considering the difference between the role of black people in American society and British.
    And I have already told you that the OP had no such national limitation.

    (Original post by Laika)
    Clearly you've just Googled 'black societies' or something.
    Clearly youre talking sh*t. I know someone who is a member of one of the fraternities and have been to the website before. Sorry.

    (Original post by Laika)
    Secondly it clearly is linked to a sense of national identity, hence the URL. Thirdly I was referring to a University Society, preferably based in Britain.
    What?

    Look these ARE uniersity societies - they are fraternities - how much more university can you get.

    As said I see no reason to limit this abstract discussion to the UK other than that it makes it harder to give you the examples you desire.

    Am I to take it though that you condone this sort of thing? All black fraternities and an organisation to promote BLACK nepotism?


    (Original post by Laika)
    Ok fine. Maybe they could walk 5 minutes down the road out of their neighborhood and experience the rest of Britain. For someone who has been a minority at one point you seem to express quite bizarre attitudes towards it, where even someone who belongs to an ethnic group composing 90% of the population can feel like an outcast!
    Youre being woefully unrealistic. If you live in the centre of Bradford in an asian area you would, in everyday life, at school, at home, etc etc feel like a minority - I dont know why you refuse to accept this.


    (Original post by Laika)
    Considering how many 'white' cultures there are (presumably we're talking about countries where the majority of the population is white), then it would seem pointless to set up such a group. I furthermore doubt the existence of any such equivalent group for black people.
    My point is a hypothetical one to discover what you ACTUALLY object to. You re familiar with such an exercise?

    Plus there are far more black cultures than white.
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    My point is a hypothetical one to discover what you ACTUALLY object to. You re familiar with such an exercise?
    I would object to a 'Black Society' based on race alone just as much as I would object to a 'White Society'. I recognise the right of both to exist, but I wouldn't necassarily agree with the principle of either.

    I disagree with you using American examples for the following reason. You are trying to highlight 'double standards'. I'm not arguing that double standards exist. In my opinion, 'standards', that is values and social conventions are relative to the society you live in. America has a vastly more complicated black history than Britain, they are an historically oppressed group. Thus different standards apply. That is why I don't think you can use an American example to point out 'double standards' when the standards we are discussing are British ones.

    The idea of a 'white' society is quite foolish in this country. 90% of the population is white, therefore a vast array of divisions and differences will exist within it. When it comes to the ethnic societies in question, they are composed of very concentrated and small fractions of the community and are much more likely to share a common history or interests. There could be a 'Yorkshire' society in which the culture of Yorkshire was celebrated and that would be fine. But 'white' society is such a broad term that it would be fairly stupid. In my opinion the only reason people are arguing this point is to try and find evidence of white people being disadvantaged at the expense of other ethnic groups, a common recurring theme on this forum it seems. A notion which I find absolutely ridiculous.

    I hope that has made my stance clear.
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    If a group of people wanted to set up a white society to celebrate white culture (What ever that is because to be honest I agree that this is to broad a term) then I see no reason why they should not be able to providing they had the necissary support (which varies from university to university) however this society should not be able to descriminate against people of other races joining just as societies from other minorties are no able to descriminate. No evidence has been submitted on this thread to show that people have been prevented from setting up a white society at a uk university(the christian society one is a completely different kettle of fish) Personally at the university I am at I don't think that there would be much support for a white society however if someone wants to go into their uni at the start of next term and try and set up such a society it would be interesting to see the response that they got.
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    (Original post by Laika)
    I would object to a 'Black Society' based on race alone just as much as I would object to a 'White Society'. I recognise the right of both to exist, but I wouldn't necassarily agree with the principle of either.

    I disagree with you using American examples for the following reason. You are trying to highlight 'double standards'. I'm not arguing that double standards exist. In my opinion, 'standards', that is values and social conventions are relative to the society you live in. America has a vastly more complicated black history than Britain, they are an historically oppressed group. Thus different standards apply. That is why I don't think you can use an American example to point out 'double standards' when the standards we are discussing are British ones.

    The idea of a 'white' society is quite foolish in this country. 90% of the population is white, therefore a vast array of divisions and differences will exist within it. When it comes to the ethnic societies in question, they are composed of very concentrated and small fractions of the community and are much more likely to share a common history or interests. There could be a 'Yorkshire' society in which the culture of Yorkshire was celebrated and that would be fine. But 'white' society is such a broad term that it would be fairly stupid. In my opinion the only reason people are arguing this point is to try and find evidence of white people being disadvantaged at the expense of other ethnic groups, a common recurring theme on this forum it seems. A notion which I find absolutely ridiculous.

    I hope that has made my stance clear.
    Its been crystal clear from the very start. A lot of people ignore what you are saying, so shall we make it as plain as day for them?

    Lawz. Simple question. Do you think that there should be white socieites set up in British universities, whereby a stipulation on joining is that you have white skin? Yes or no?

    If yes, why? Because as fa as we can see, there are no societies at any British university that excluse people on the basis of skin colour. A society being called "black" doesn't mean only black people can join. The "black" refers to "black culture"- and the way "black" is used in the mainstream in Britai supports this. People say "black" music. There are the MOBO awards, where they celebrate music of black origin- whether that singer is Mary J Blige or Joss Stone, whether the rapper is Tupac or Eminem. It is widely accepted that the "black" term is about the culture, and not literally the skin colour.

    Are you saying there ARE double standards? Yes, you've said it a few times. I wan to know where these double standards in BRITISH UNIVERSITIES are. I want evidence of societies that stipulate that you must have a certain skin colour to join. I don't want to hear of people being nasty, or giving evil looks as you go to put your name in the joining box. I want to be shown rules that say you must have a certain skin colour to join a group.

    Again, do you think that there should be societies where only white people are allowed to join? I fear you might dodge the question by saying that no, but you don't believe "black societies" should exist(if not you, someone else).

    So to stop going around in cirlces, i'll say it AGAIN. I do not believe that in Britain, thee are any socieites at a university where you must be of a certain colour to join.

    Lawz in particular, but others too. Do not try and dodge the questions, just answer them. I don't want to hear about American univeristy fraternities, because as Laika says time and time again, this is Britain. The OP was talking about seting up a white society in a British university. Don't dodge the questions by asking more, or adding anecdotes about other countries. Simple, answer!
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    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    Its been crystal clear from the very start. A lot of people ignore what you are saying, so shall we make it as plain as day for them?


    Oh... get a room.

    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    Lawz. Simple question. Do you think that there should be white socieites set up in British universities, whereby a stipulation on joining is that you have white skin? Yes or no?


    No. Considering that has been crystal clear.

    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    If yes, why? Because as fa as we can see, there are no societies at any British university that excluse people on the basis of skin colour. A society being called "black" doesn't mean only black people can join. The "black" refers to "black culture"- and the way "black" is used in the mainstream in Britai supports this. People say "black" music. There are the MOBO awards, where they celebrate music of black origin- whether that singer is Mary J Blige or Joss Stone, whether the rapper is Tupac or Eminem. It is widely accepted that the "black" term is about the culture, and not literally the skin colour.


    You havent been reading my posts have you?

    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    Are you saying there ARE double standards? Yes, you've said it a few times. I wan to know where these double standards in BRITISH UNIVERSITIES are.


    When did I limit myself to UK universities? When did the OP do so? I'm not about to limit myself to suit your argument.

    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    I want evidence of societies that stipulate that you must have a certain skin colour to join. I don't want to hear of people being nasty, or giving evil looks as you go to put your name in the joining box. I want to be shown rules that say you must have a certain skin colour to join a group.


    And I want to **** Jessica Alba.

    Considering I never said there were such societies in the UK...

    I pointed to some interesting examples abroad. The point here was to see if people who would condemn such things for whites would condemn them if they involved blacks or other ethnic groups. Where such things are located is neither here nor there to that exercise.

    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    Again, do you think that there should be societies where only white people are allowed to join? I fear you might dodge the question by saying that no, but you don't believe "black societies" should exist(if not you, someone else).


    Sorry to disappoint, but no. No. No No.

    Clear enough?


    I get the imrpession youd like to paint me as a racist - that I Demand white only groups.
    I’m engaged to a Filipina, two of my best friends are black, and I have Hispanic family. No I’m not racist.

    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    So to stop going around in cirlces, i'll say it AGAIN. I do not believe that in
    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    Britain, thee are any socieites at a university where you must be of a certain colour to join.


    In actuality, I think you would find that’s untrue - but yes - Its likely you wouldn’t find any the publicise that fact.

    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    Lawz in particular, but others too. Do not try and dodge the questions, just answer them.


    Oh please... what questions have a dodged? List them please.

    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    I don't want to hear about American univeristy fraternities, because as Laika says time and time again, this is Britain.


    And like I have said TIME AND TIME AGAIN - I dont give a **** what this is. I'm addressing a broader point and the OP NEVER limited it to the UK. If you choose to that's your business.

    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    The OP was talking about seting up a white society in a British university. Don't dodge the questions by asking more, or adding anecdotes about other countries. Simple, answer!


    Grow up. Im not dodging anything at all...
    The OP didnt mention the word UK at all.
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    What the hell do you do to your posts that makes them so difficult to quote?

    Anyway, for the 'broader point' an American examples discussion, refer to my previous post about standards and how you can't use two different sets of standards to highlight double standards. It's a fallacy. You can address the rest of the post as well if you feel so inclined.

    Thanks.
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    (Original post by Laika)
    What the hell do you do to your posts that makes them so difficult to quote?

    Anyway, for the 'broader point' an American examples discussion, refer to my previous post about standards and how you can't use two different sets of standards to highlight double standards. It's a fallacy. You can address the rest of the post as well if you feel so inclined.

    Thanks.
    Its not anything like a fallacy.

    if you have reasons to believe that there are historical factors that make such US practices OK while they would be objectionable in the UK _ THEN fine - highlight them. That is not to say that one cant comment on whether or not, outside of historical prejudice, tension, and conflict such practices are justifiable.

    There is no problem with the comparison whatsoever.

    Further I have already addressed yoru points. You have simply repeated them. Im not doing it 5 times a day.
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    Its not anything like a fallacy.

    if you have reasons to believe that there are historical factors that make such US practices OK while they would be objectionable in the UK _ THEN fine - highlight them. That is not to say that one cant comment on whether or not, outside of historical prejudice, tension, and conflict such practices are justifiable.

    There is no problem with the comparison whatsoever.

    Further I have already addressed yoru points. You have simply repeated them. Im not doing it 5 times a day.
    I've done the same in regards to the America thing. I suppose we've hit a brick wall with this debate. Agree to disagree?
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    (Original post by Laika)
    I've done the same in regards to the America thing. I suppose we've hit a brick wall with this debate. Agree to disagree?
    Sure thing.

    How about we resolve it like this:

    Would you be ok with those institutions I highlighted in the US in the UK?
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    Sure thing.

    How about we resolve it like this:

    Would you be ok with those institutions I highlighted in the US in the UK?
    The fraternity I wouldn't see a problem with...it seems akin to an afro-caribbean society or whatever rather than simply a society for 'blacks'. The site is not very clear.

    The UNCF - No, I wouldn't see the need for something like that in the UK.
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    (Original post by Laika)
    The fraternity I wouldn't see a problem with...it seems akin to an afro-caribbean society or whatever rather than simply a society for 'blacks'. The site is not very clear.

    The UNCF - No, I wouldn't see the need for something like that in the UK.
    No the fraternity is precisely what it says - ie a fraternity solely for blacks.

    Seen Road trip?
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    Where are you from Katie? Which Island?
    I'm British - live near London.
 
 
 
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