Israel joining NATO? Watch

spacepilot3000
Badges: 0
#101
Report 13 years ago
#101
a) Funnily enough Palestinians have lived in Palestine ever since it was called Palestine. Shocking that. There have been Palestinians of multiple races and religions, at one point when the Romans were lording it over Palestine in their there was a balance between Jews and Muslims, though the Romans tried unsuccesfully to convert them, sorry going of on a tangent. Later the Ottomans controlled the land. The problem began when the British start partitioning stuff and people of a certain race or religion were herded into specific areas, one part called Israel another Palestine, its the same country but now the people are split up and become obsessed with wanting more land, walling people in and stuff.

b) The UN are the guys that write all the legislation to create a country and thats cool but did the Palestinians agree to giveaway their country? No. The UN can't just redistrubute land on a whim.

c) Palestine is a pretty fertile country but the areas that were given to the Jews were the more fertile and often the most advantageous areas. They controlled the rivers and could pollute the water before it flowed into the Palestinian territories, since 1948 the Israeli territory has been expanding faster than their rate of population growth, modern 'Israel' has a population not much more than london but has way more land.

Irrelevant: Aweomse screen name, Bismarck was totally an awesome politician. Bit racist occasionally tho, didnt really like the polish. Especially the ones in bits of land he thought were Prussian.
0
reply
Longshoredrift80
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#102
Report 13 years ago
#102
(Original post by spacepilot30)
Israel was illegally set up
You do realise that for something to be 'illegal' it has to break a law of some sort. Tell me what laws the creation of Israel with UN approval broke?

(Original post by spacepilot30)
The Palestinians had lived in Palestine for just as long if not longer than the Jews
Sheer ignorance of history. Interestingly, the term "palestinians" actually referred to Jews in the Mandate for a long while, it was never used as a term to refer to some sort of separate Arab people until recent decades. HAve you never thought how it's funny how the MAndate was divided between 'Jews and Arabs' and not 'Jews and palestinians'? Or why there seems to be such an absence of any "palestinian" history as a people or a 'nation' of any sort?

(Original post by spacepilot30)
and they coexisted with the Jews when they were there thousands of years ago.
Which point are we referring to.

(Original post by spacepilot30)
Jews had been moving back to palestine since the early twentieth century
Actually, there has been a constant Jewish presence in those areas for millenia. Maybe more started moving back, but some were already there

(Original post by spacepilot30)
and the Palestinians got moved to the least fertile lands and land disproportionate to their population.
Ignoramus. Firstly, once again, no "palestinians" around when Israel was set-up. They aren't a distinct people in any way, shape or form, they're the same as other Arabs in the region. Secondly, all Arabs were invited to stay in what became Israel and thousands upon thousands did. They are Israeli Arabs and today number over a million. And thirdly, it wasn't disproportionate. All the areas allocated to Israel had clear Jewish majorities. And not forgetting that 78% of the Mandate had ALREADY been handed to the Arabs in the form of Transjordan, a quarter of a century before, and all that was remaining to be divided was the last 22%.
0
reply
emlyn
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#103
Report 13 years ago
#103
I think we're overlooking the hugely corrupting factor of religion. The fact that Israel is an orthodox jewish country is a huge issue for the Arabs. Being an atheist I'd hate to live there, as the whole daily life is structured to a Jewish one (not to mention it's full of religious quacks!). I can't imagine how frustrating it must be to a Muslim, to have some of their most holy places given over to Jews. In turn the Jews must have been anoyd about Arabs living in their traditional homeland for so many years. All over a few crumbling bits of rock! The glory of religion.
Also the 'millions of Arabs' who decided to live in Isreal, contribute a working class, treated as second class citizens and given the most poorly payed jobs. It must be nice having an arab taxi driver to drive u around on Shabbat, so u don't have to break any of the precious covenant laws! Most live there not by choice but by circumstance.
We use the term Palestinians in modern context, like I don't call London 'Londinium', so don't quarrell with that. Palestine was a name coined by the Romans for the area, the Arab populace who lived there before the Mandate have kept hold of the name, as it harks back to the time before the formation of Israel. Not because they believe they are part of the original populace of Roman Palestine; which everyone knows was mainly Jewish before the diaspora.
0
reply
emlyn
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#104
Report 13 years ago
#104
btw take a compliment mate, he's not being a racist, he just enjoys studying Bismark. :-p
0
reply
emlyn
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#105
Report 13 years ago
#105
(Original post by Bismarck)
I suggest that present-day Anglo-Saxon Britons give Britain back to the native population of ancient Britain, who currently resides in Brittany, France.
Don't get me started on some French people ....

Interesting point though, there also evidence that native Britons have similar genetics to the Basque people.
0
reply
spacepilot3000
Badges: 0
#106
Report 13 years ago
#106
When did I say a Palestinian was an Arab? By palestinian I just meant someone who lives in Palestine whether he be Black, Arab, White, Jew, Hindu, Muslim or Christian. Taking a country without the occupiers permission? Thats stealing JonathanH. Here's some homework for you Bismarck, go and get out a map or download google earth or something. Take a look at Palestine. Check out all the green land, whose boders it in? 'Israel's'. See all those tiny houses packed together in the deserty bit? Thats the Palestinians. Also, check out the legal border of palestine and 'Israel' at the bottom left, then look at the big wall going a bit over it. The UN approved that did they? I did not say a German conquering land was awesome, I said Bismarck was awesome, he was one of the greatest politicians ever, he sped up GErman unification by like 20 years. Conquest is moronic. And Bismarck you suggest we should give Britain back to the British? If were going back to 'I was here first so its mine' stuff, do america own the moon? Shouldn't the entire human race go back to the african continent where it came from? If you wanna go really far back we should all go back to living in ponds?
0
reply
emlyn
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#107
Report 13 years ago
#107
The term "Palestine" comes from the word Philistine, the name of an ethnic group which lived in the southern coast of the region. The Philistines disappeared as a distinct group by the Assyrian period. The meaning of their ethnonym is uncertain but is sometimes understood in Hebrew to mean "invaders" from the root p-l-sh.
The Greek form Palaistinêi from which English "Palestine" is ultimately derived, was first used in the 5th century BCE by Herodotus who wrote of the "district of Syria, called Palaistinêi".
As a result of the First Jewish-Roman War (66–73), Titus sacked Jerusalem and destroyed the Second Temple, leaving only the Western Wall. In 135, following the fall of a Jewish revolt led by Bar Kokhba in 132–135, the Roman emperor Hadrian expelled most Jews from Judea, leaving large Jewish populations in Samaria and the Galilee. He also changed the name of the Roman province of Judea (Israel) to Syria Palaestina named after the Philistines as an insult to the now conquered Jews. Over time the name Syria Palaestina was shortened to Palaestina, which by then had become an administrative political unit within the Roman Empire.
source: wikipedia
0
reply
emlyn
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#108
Report 13 years ago
#108
so jews calling themselvs 'Plaestinians' is a bit of a joke
0
reply
emlyn
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#109
Report 13 years ago
#109
You point was that Jews were known as Palestinians before the establishment of Israel. Which is true in part, but is not the name the Jews wanted, it was an insult name derived by the Romans. Therefore the modern arab Palestinians use the name in defiance of the people who live in the lands which were once theres.
Must be nice moving to a country of lesser educated people to do manual labour. (South Africa....)
To be honest the British empire bodged alot up for alot of people. But who cares when your a rich 'democracy' with the U.S. as your best buddy!
0
reply
spacepilot3000
Badges: 0
#110
Report 13 years ago
#110
Did I say it was legitamate? Most countries were formed centuries ago when people couldn't see that taking already occupied land was wrong. Also, I think you'll find Bismarck unified the states of the northern GERMAN confederation and later the south GERMAN confederation. The only land he took that wasn't primarily occupied by Germans was Allsaice-Lorrain. He didn't resort to war first. If he hadn't gone to war with Austria they would have continually blocked unification as they were incredibly anti-nationalist in the latter half of the nineteenth century. And he didn't declare war on France, France declared war on the NGC after the whole ems telegram thing (which Bismarck HAD edited yes). France went with war because they were in a huff and got war fever. Bismarck didn't plan it.
0
reply
Bismarck
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#111
Report 13 years ago
#111
(Original post by emlyn)
You point was that Jews were known as Palestinians before the establishment of Israel. Which is true in part, but is not the name the Jews wanted, it was an insult name derived by the Romans. Therefore the modern arab Palestinians use the name in defiance of the people who live in the lands which were once theres.
It was an insult 2000 years ago. It eventually lost its negative connations.

Must be nice moving to a country of lesser educated people to do manual labour. (South Africa....)
Or the Pakistanis, Bengalis, and Caribbeans in Britain, that homeland of tyranny and racism. :rolleyes:
0
reply
emlyn
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#112
Report 13 years ago
#112
about 52% of Jews in Isreal are what we'd call either Orthodox, Ultra-Orthodox or heavily Traditional, the remaining are nearly all practising or believe in God. So don't tell me that the country isn't structured towards a Jewish way of life
0
reply
Bismarck
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#113
Report 13 years ago
#113
(Original post by spacepilot3000)
Did I say it was legitamate? Most countries were formed centuries ago when people couldn't see that taking already occupied land was wrong.
Too bad that out of the 191 countries in the world today, only about a fourth existed when Israel came into being.

Also, I think you'll find Bismarck unified the states of the northern GERMAN confederation and later the south GERMAN confederation. The only land he took that wasn't primarily occupied by Germans was Allsaice-Lorrain.
And Schlewig-Holstein. He wasn't too keen on giving back Polish land to the Poles either; and supported the bloody Tsarist crackdown on Polish nationalism. There's also the fact that there was no German nation in the mid-19th century. It was an idealized version of something that never existed. Each German state (and there were hundreds of them) had its own monarch and culture. Bismarck coerced the northern German states into joining Prussia by showing that Austria isn't going to help them militarily. The same is true for southern Germany and France. He didn't have to use force because everyone realized that they had to obey Prussia or risk a devastating war (as the Saxon king found out when he backed the wrong horse in the Seven Week War).

He didn't resort to war first. If he hadn't gone to war with Austria they would have continually blocked unification as they were incredibly anti-nationalist in the latter half of the nineteenth century. And he didn't declare war on France, France declared war on the NGC after the whole ems telegram thing (which Bismarck HAD edited yes). France went with war because they were in a huff and got war fever. Bismarck didn't plan it.
By your logic, Israel isn't at fault either, since the Arabs were the ones that started the wars in '49 and '73.
0
reply
spacepilot3000
Badges: 0
#114
Report 13 years ago
#114
'homeland of tyranny and racism'. Britain was evilly imperialistic and racist in the areas it conquered years ago yeah, but not really now (Blairy boy a tryrant? debatable...). I hope your not implying that British people are inherently tyranical or racist? Sounds like rather a tyrannical and racist accusation to me.
0
reply
spacepilot3000
Badges: 0
#115
Report 13 years ago
#115
Erm, I said Bismarck was a good politician, not a good guy. Hitler was a good politician, he got loads of people to believe his crap and fight a war for him. Doesnt make him a good guy tho. Also, in your obsession with proving Bismarck was some evil bloke you're making yoiurself look like a berk for maming yourself after him. Unless you realy are Bismarck. Then your jsut being very silly. You silly silly junker man.
0
reply
emlyn
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#116
Report 13 years ago
#116
I'm sorry! Gosh all the Arabs that live in Israel were just poor immigrants looking for jobs. And the lovely Israeli people let them into their country because they were nice and belived in 'equal opportunities'. Don't make me laugh!
Mate I was explaining why the Arabs in the area hold on to the name 'Palestine', because you seemed to hold it against them simply because they didn't coin the name themselves.
0
reply
Bismarck
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#117
Report 13 years ago
#117
(Original post by spacepilot3000)
'homeland of tyranny and racism'. Britain was evilly imperialistic and racist in the areas it conquered years ago yeah, but not really now (Blairy boy a tryrant? debatable...). I hope your not implying that British people are inherently tyranical or racist? Sounds like rather a tyrannical and racist accusation to me.
I never realized an accusation could be tyrannical. I guess there's a first for everything. :rolleyes: When Arabs tend to have lower paying jobs in Israel, Israel is being tyrannical and racist. When Pakistanis tend to have lower paying jobs in Britain, Britain is not being tyrannical and racist. Brilliant logic there.
0
reply
Longshoredrift80
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#118
Report 13 years ago
#118
Bismarck: These people are poorly-educated, illogical, ignorant morons, you don't need to waste any more time with them.
0
reply
emlyn
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#119
Report 13 years ago
#119
I apologise your right about the proportions of practising Jews.
What gets me the most though is the way Isreal has gone about affirming it's borders through appauling human rights violations; and the fact that because we are best mates with them and America, we just turn a blind eye and allow the yanks to send them some more guns.
I have little respect for the country, and disagree with most of their maniac right wing policies.
0
reply
emlyn
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#120
Report 13 years ago
#120
To jonathanH: I'm having a debate here and trying to learn more about a subject which interests me. It's not an argument in the fact that I don't wish any hard feelings towards anyone else participating. So your comments about me being 'poorly educated' are childish and inappropriate. If you don't have anything constructive to say, leave it out
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Why do you want to do a masters?

Great for my career (51)
35.66%
I really love the subject (39)
27.27%
I don't know what else to do (19)
13.29%
I can't get a job (8)
5.59%
My parents want me to (3)
2.1%
I don't know... I just do (23)
16.08%

Watched Threads

View All