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    (Original post by Steevee)
    I suggest you revise that post.

    Calling a scab a scab is ok? That's a pretty derogatory term, and regardless of your opinion that post could be worded better, you're supposed to be setting an example.
    I don't have a moral objection to it, depending on the strike/action in question.

    An example to whom exactly? :wtf: I don't set an example to anyone in my private life off here, and that's what I was discussing.

    My only responsibility on here is to ensure that the debate flows smoothly, which I did, by telling Kibalchich and others to cut out the personal attacks. I didn't somehow sell off my right to a personal opinion when I became a mod you know.
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    (Original post by Democracy)
    I don't have a moral objection to it, depending on the strike/action in question.

    An example to whom exactly? :wtf: I don't set an example to anyone in my private life off here, and that's what I was discussing.

    My only responsibility on here is to ensure that the debate flows smoothly, which I did, by telling Kibalchich and others to cut out the personal attacks. I didn't somehow sell off my right to a personal opinion when I became a mod you know.
    SO you'd be fine with saying, 'Oh in real life call a Chink a Chink, just not here.' Something like that? Your post is badly worded for a Mod, especially when it's in regards to a Mod action.
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    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    Unions are about collective strength. You don't want that, fine. Don't expect anyone to have your back either. Scab.
    This; +++. I hate scabs who freeload and scrounge off union negotiations; they enjoy all the benefits like leave loading, sick leave, annual leave, and many more quite technical benefits (like redundancy consultation periods) that they don't understand, let alone appreciate.
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    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    I'm in the IWW and Unison and the RCN.
    Sweet I'm a Unison branch sec.

    And I would say, head office is nothing but supportive and helpful, particularly with many of the technical, legal aspects of negotiations about pay and conditions.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    I'd rather not be part of a Union with a storied affiliation with Anarcho-Socialist movements, equally I've got no time for Unison or the RCN as they fund and are affiliated with the Labour Party.
    Funny you should say that, considering that affilitation in Unison is actually split, between Labour Link and regular members, and you can choose whether your subs are contributed to the general fighting fund or political (Labour) fund.

    Considering your arguments have just been shattered (re labour affiliation), what's your objection again?
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    I suggest you revise that post.

    Calling a scab a scab is ok? That's a pretty derogatory term, and regardless of your opinion that post could be worded better, you're supposed to be setting an example.
    A scab is a scab is a scab.

    Funnily enough, the non-union members of my workplace never decline on principal the pay rises we negotiate. Just a bunch of scrounging freeloaders.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    and not all unions have such an opt out.
    Yes they do, its a legal requirement.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    SO you'd be fine with saying, 'Oh in real life call a Chink a Chink, just not here.' Something like that? Your post is badly worded for a Mod, especially when it's in regards to a Mod action.
    You're comparing racism to calling out someone who stabs their colleagues in the back?
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    (Original post by zippyRN)
    Sacked ? or made redundant ?

    also if you were dismissed - what did you do to frustrate your contract.
    I was sacked whilst off sick with work-related stress.
    My breach of contract was down to my not calling in sick one day-that's the one thing they got me on however before this, they had been trying to make me resign for months and months. Maybe even longer than I was aware of. It was a truly awful, corrupt company.
    In the disciplinary they brought up all sorts of stuff which were lies, and the meeting became a case of my word against their's. Stupid things such as apparently I was working for another company whilst off sick (I wasn't, I hadn't worked for anybody else) and the fact that facebook had said I was in a certain city that I didn't live in 'So I must have been lying about being ill'.
    Of the day in question where I didn't call in sick-I sent in a doctor's note officially signing me off-but what had happened was I had no phone reception where I was (staying with parents) I tried to call but the person on the desk couldn't hear me. I had enough reception to send a text though. I text my boyfriend asking him to call me in sick, but he didn't. Just one of those misunderstandings between me and him but as they couldn't prove anything else they'd accused me of, they got me on that.
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    Yes, they act as the defence of the workers. I'm not working, but I am a firm supporter of unions and I definitely would
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    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    Funny you should say that, considering that affilitation in Unison is actually split, between Labour Link and regular members, and you can choose whether your subs are contributed to the general fighting fund or political (Labour) fund.

    Considering your arguments have just been shattered (re labour affiliation), what's your objection again?
    The whole Unions often being self serving organisations, fronts for left politics etc. And you've hardly shattered any Union-Labour affiliation, as even when it's not direct funding, most still have strong links with the likes of the Labour Party, SWP and so forth.

    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    A scab is a scab is a scab.

    Funnily enough, the non-union members of my workplace never decline on principal the pay rises we negotiate. Just a bunch of scrounging freeloaders.

    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    You're comparing racism to calling out someone who stabs their colleagues in the back?
    And a scrounger is a scrounger is a scrounger. A Chav is a Chav is a Chav.

    And then there's the whole point about free choice, in that the 'scab' may not want to strike, they may want to continue to earn money, they may want nothing to do with your strike. Just because you want to strike does not mean everyone must, typical entitlement complex from your sort.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    The whole Unions often being self serving organisations
    Can you cite just one, single, measly example? Shouldn't be too hard for you if it's as obvious as you claim.

    (Of unions serving the interests of their full-time officers as opposed to those of their members... or do you claim that unions shouldn't be able to represent their members interests? Should we abolish political parties as well?)

    fronts for left politics etc.
    A front? A front would imply some kind of deception. Clearly, it's actually quite a sensible and pragmatic investment for unions to donate to and support the political party that is most likely to repay that support with legislation most favourable to the union's members.

    Or would you say that only corporations can lobby government, and it's entirely illegitimate for unions to contribute to and lobby political parties in the interests of the members who pay their salary? Eh?

    And you've hardly shattered any Union-Labour affiliation, as even when it's not direct funding, most still have strong links with the likes of the Labour Party, SWP and so forth.
    Evidence please. Do you have any evidence of this secret union conspiracy to support the Labour Party at the expense of its members? Or is it tinfoil hat time?

    And a scrounger is a scrounger is a scrounger. A Chav is a Chav is a Chav.
    What do chavs have to do with this?

    And then there's the whole point about free choice, in that the 'scab' may not want to strike, they may want to continue to earn money, they may want nothing to do with your strike.
    Though of course they don't forbear to accept the payrises the union negotiates, despite their desperate, pathetic need to bow down and lick their boss's boots.

    Find me one union-hater who has declined to accept a payrise negotiated on his behalf by a union he refused to join, and I will concede you have a principled man. Can you find one?
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    (Original post by sugarmouse)
    I was sacked whilst off sick with work-related stress.
    My breach of contract was down to my not calling in sick one day-that's the one thing they got me on however before this, they had been trying to make me resign for months and months. Maybe even longer than I was aware of. It was a truly awful, corrupt company.
    In the disciplinary they brought up all sorts of stuff which were lies, and the meeting became a case of my word against their's. Stupid things such as apparently I was working for another company whilst off sick (I wasn't, I hadn't worked for anybody else) and the fact that facebook had said I was in a certain city that I didn't live in 'So I must have been lying about being ill'.
    Of the day in question where I didn't call in sick-I sent in a doctor's note officially signing me off-but what had happened was I had no phone reception where I was (staying with parents) I tried to call but the person on the desk couldn't hear me. I had enough reception to send a text though. I text my boyfriend asking him to call me in sick, but he didn't. Just one of those misunderstandings between me and him but as they couldn't prove anything else they'd accused me of, they got me on that.
    I know of someone in a very similar situation; they tried to sack him on the basis of failing to call in sick (when, in fact, sometimes an employee can't due to their illness and are often protected under the Equality Act 2010)... they couldn't come to an agreement, but his employer paid him out £4,000 in a compromise settlement.

    Your former employer behaved unforgivably, considering that failing to call in sick is not a fundamental and/or repudiatory breach of contract. Failing to call in sick is not gross misconduct / fundamental and repudiatory breach.

    Only with the support of a union are most people able to call an employer on their unlawful and immoral attempts to sack people in these situations. Your employer probably acted unlawfully. Most of us don't have the time to be an employment law expert, so an employer will walk all over us.

    Unions are the only answer.
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    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    I know of someone in a very similar situation; they tried to sack him on the basis of failing to call in sick (when, in fact, sometimes an employee can't due to their illness and are often protected under the Equality Act 2010)... they couldn't come to an agreement, but his employer paid him out £4,000 in a compromise settlement.

    Your former employer behaved unforgivably, considering that failing to call in sick is not a fundamental and/or repudiatory breach of contract. Failing to call in sick is not gross misconduct / fundamental and repudiatory breach.

    Only with the support of a union are most people able to call an employer on their unlawful and immoral attempts to sack people in these situations. Your employer probably acted unlawfully. Most of us don't have the time to be an employment law expert, so an employer will walk all over us.

    Unions are the only answer.
    Or you could use a bit of common sense and if you think you've been dismissed unlawfully and consult a private solicitor or even the citizens advice bureau. I know people who have sued companies for it, you don't need to be an expert in employment law to figure out when something has gone wrong.
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    Absolutely! Piece of mind if something ever goes wrong at work, e.g. pupil accuses a teacher of something, they can seek legal help through their union
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    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    I know of someone in a very similar situation; they tried to sack him on the basis of failing to call in sick (when, in fact, sometimes an employee can't due to their illness and are often protected under the Equality Act 2010)... they couldn't come to an agreement, but his employer paid him out £4,000 in a compromise settlement.

    Your former employer behaved unforgivably, considering that failing to call in sick is not a fundamental and/or repudiatory breach of contract. Failing to call in sick is not gross misconduct / fundamental and repudiatory breach.

    Only with the support of a union are most people able to call an employer on their unlawful and immoral attempts to sack people in these situations. Your employer probably acted unlawfully. Most of us don't have the time to be an employment law expert, so an employer will walk all over us.

    Unions are the only answer.
    and a union rep or Full time officer at your discip would have helped, especially by forcing the panel to seek proof of the manager's assertions

    plus of course your union subs providing the legal insurance to take that employer to ET and represent you at any professional regulator's hearing ...
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    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    Can you cite just one, single, measly example? Shouldn't be too hard for you if it's as obvious as you claim.

    (Of unions serving the interests of their full-time officers as opposed to those of their members... or do you claim that unions shouldn't be able to represent their members interests? Should we abolish political parties as well?)



    A front? A front would imply some kind of deception. Clearly, it's actually quite a sensible and pragmatic investment for unions to donate to and support the political party that is most likely to repay that support with legislation most favourable to the union's members.

    Or would you say that only corporations can lobby government, and it's entirely illegitimate for unions to contribute to and lobby political parties in the interests of the members who pay their salary? Eh?



    Evidence please. Do you have any evidence of this secret union conspiracy to support the Labour Party at the expense of its members? Or is it tinfoil hat time?



    What do chavs have to do with this?



    Though of course they don't forbear to accept the payrises the union negotiates, despite their desperate, pathetic need to bow down and lick their boss's boots.

    Find me one union-hater who has declined to accept a payrise negotiated on his behalf by a union he refused to join, and I will concede you have a principled man. Can you find one?
    I'll not hunt for corrupt union members in the news. My sources are my farther, grandfather and uncle. All men that worked their way up from the bottom, all men that were involved in unions, all men that removed themselves from them insofar as they could because those at the heads of the Unions were just as self-serving as the corporation men they villified.

    And I do not support such political parties, so why would I in any way support organisations that support them if I need not?

    Various Labour members speak at various union confrences, a lot of Labour members and Union members have links to the party and the likes of the SWP. I don't know why you'd deny this, when it's quite obviously true. And I've not said at the expense of it's members, you're putting words in my mouth. My issue is that they support Left leaning parties, which I certainly do not.

    Derogatory terms seem to be fine according to you? And yet your sort often have a problem when people like me call a chav a chav, the underclass the underclass, the scrounger the scrounger etc.

    Why would they? Plenty of people don't contribute to this nations economy and yet are perfectly willing to take handouts from it and those that do contribute. Why would they turn down a payrise given to everyone on the basis that they didn't want to engage in industrial action to start with? Such a thing is ridiculous. But of course, hypocirsy is always the order of the day for people of your leanings.
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    (Original post by LeBuche)
    Or you could use a bit of common sense and if you think you've been dismissed unlawfully and consult a private solicitor or even the citizens advice bureau. I know people who have sued companies for it, you don't need to be an expert in employment law to figure out when something has gone wrong.
    CAB will not represent you at a discip and cannot force an employer to allow anyone to be your representative at a discip.

    CAB cannot represent you at ET ( at ET you either have a actual lawyer or represent yourself)

    A lawyer cannot represent you at a Discip and may well be disallowed as an friend / assistant if you represent yourself. Accredited union/ professional assn reps/ FT officers can represent you at a discip ( and it doesn't have to be a 'recognised' Union/ professional assn either as 'recognition' by employersis only for collective bargaining )
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    (Original post by zippyRN)
    CAB cannot represent you at ET ( at ET you either have a actual lawyer or represent yourself)
    There is limited help for those seeking representation at ET. There is at least one body in the UK which provides free representation.

    However, as I said, this help is very limited. Thanks to the government's reckless cuts, the situation looks set to get worse too.
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    (Original post by LeBuche)
    Or you could use a bit of common sense and if you think you've been dismissed unlawfully and consult a private solicitor
    Nice to hear you've got a few thousand spare sitting around in your bank to take your employer to an employment tribunal. Most people don't
 
 
 
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