Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by alex5455)
    So right wingers, who want to abolish the NMW, health and safety, working time regulations, working conditions regulations, safety standards for products, benefits.

    This is what britain was in the 1800s, and will turn britain back into what it was then, the rich, feasting and partying while the poor suffer and starve. do you want to go back to working 20 hour days, for starvation wages in unsafe conditions, when you can be sacked for getting ill or hurt and receive no sick pay, and no unemployment help or disability support?

    capitalism had its chance and has failed.
    Sad that you're being negged so much, since much of your analysis appears to be correct - the current agenda globally is to destroy worker's rights, eliminate humane terms and conditions, render all workers casual and temporary and promote the interests of the super-rich to the status of gods.

    I would go a step further, the neoliberal agenda is not about returning to the 1800s but about moving the world to a sort of feudal state, with an oligarchy of mega-rich transnationals and their owners who pay no taxes and are above the law.

    Consider the basics - the US Congress is wholly corrupted and for sale. It is now actually part of US law that "money = free speech", a truly bizarre perversion approved by the Supreme Court, meaning that anyone, anywhere in the world, can donate huge amounts to Senators to buy the policies they require. As the recent vote against the gun restriction laws shows, the US Senate has been sold to the NRA, even though overwhelmingly the public supported the bill they were demanding.

    In the UK and other parts of the West, taxes have been abolished for the top 50 corporations and the richest individuals. The government pay lip service to changing this, whilst covertly and without protest in Parliament passing fresh relaxations of the tax code for big corporations.

    Some defiant elements remain, like parts of the EU machinery, but they are under fierce attack.

    The global media is in a few right-wing hands, most notably Murdoch and his cohorts. Small numbers of genuinely independent media remain, but these are being assaulted. The internet is increasingly coming under the control of a few corporations.

    The world is also being subjected to 'Chinafication' - the destruction of living conditions, wages, employment rights and other things like the right to a decent place to live or decent food.

    A perfect storm is gathering where this completely untenable system of extreme capitalism has degraded the markets on which it relies by demolishing living standards for the majority to such a point that it is no longer viable, plus resources are running low and the global environment is under extreme threat.

    It isn't pleasant to face the future we have been born into, but we must first accept the reality of what is happening and then organise to fight against the forces that are doing this to us.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Sad that you're being negged so much, since much of your analysis appears to be correct - the current agenda globally is to destroy worker's rights, eliminate humane terms and conditions, render all workers casual and temporary and promote the interests of the super-rich to the status of gods.

    I would go a step further, the neoliberal agenda is not about returning to the 1800s but about moving the world to a sort of feudal state, with an oligarchy of mega-rich transnationals and their owners who pay no taxes and are above the law.

    Consider the basics - the US Congress is wholly corrupted and for sale. It is now actually part of US law that "money = free speech", a truly bizarre perversion approved by the Supreme Court, meaning that anyone, anywhere in the world, can donate huge amounts to Senators to buy the policies they require. As the recent vote against the gun restriction laws shows, the US Senate has been sold to the NRA, even though overwhelmingly the public supported the bill they were demanding.

    In the UK and other parts of the West, taxes have been abolished for the top 50 corporations and the richest individuals. The government pay lip service to changing this, whilst covertly and without protest in Parliament passing fresh relaxations of the tax code for big corporations.

    Some defiant elements remain, like parts of the EU machinery, but they are under fierce attack.

    The global media is in a few right-wing hands, most notably Murdoch and his cohorts. Small numbers of genuinely independent media remain, but these are being assaulted. The internet is increasingly coming under the control of a few corporations.

    The world is also being subjected to 'Chinafication' - the destruction of living conditions, wages, employment rights and other things like the right to a decent place to live or decent food.

    A perfect storm is gathering where this completely untenable system of extreme capitalism has degraded the markets on which it relies by demolishing living standards for the majority to such a point that it is no longer viable, plus resources are running low and the global environment is under extreme threat.

    It isn't pleasant to face the future we have been born into, but we must first accept the reality of what is happening and then organise to fight against the forces that are doing this to us.
    I agree with you on the senate. The failure of the gun control bill was a joke.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jacob :))
    Those were products of industrialisation not capitalism.
    and the right want to send us back to these being commonplace
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by alex5455)
    and the right want to send us back to these being commonplace
    Why would they do that? Making the working class sick and starving would decrease productivity.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    It isn't pleasant to face the future we have been born into, but we must first accept the reality of what is happening and then organise to fight against the forces that are doing this to us.
    I'm not being harsh or pedantic, but didn't you say you were upper-middle class in a thread once? Obviously you can have left-wing views as I believe in freedom of association and opinion, but I don't know why you're using language like "they" and "us" when you don't seem very hard done by.

    Sorry if this seems a bit outlandish, I'm just curious.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jacob :))
    Why would they do that? Making the working class sick and starving would decrease productivity.
    why wont they give workers adequate rights fair pay and safe working conditions without government intervention? baffles me.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Iron Lady)
    I'm not being harsh or pedantic, but didn't you say you were upper-middle class in a thread once? Obviously you can have left-wing views as I believe in freedom of association and opinion, but I don't know why you're using language like "they" and "us" when you don't seem very hard done by.

    Sorry if this seems a bit outlandish, I'm just curious.
    I am talking about the plutocracy that controls the largest corporations and the super-wealthy, there is no relationship between upper-middle class academics and professionals and the oligarchs whose interests are being served - it's a right-wing pretence that the two have a common interest or are the same thing, so I'm not surprised you are attempting to conflate them.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    I am talking about the plutocracy that controls the largest corporations and the super-wealthy, there is no relationship between upper-middle class academics and professionals and the oligarchs whose interests are being served - it's a right-wing pretence that the two have a common interest or are the same thing, so I'm not surprised you are attempting to conflate them.
    Big words. Yet still confused as to what you're talking about other than trying to show off.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    I am talking about the plutocracy that controls the largest corporations and the super-wealthy, there is no relationship between upper-middle class academics and professionals and the oligarchs whose interests are being served - it's a right-wing pretence that the two have a common interest or are the same thing, so I'm not surprised you are attempting to conflate them.
    No, I know the difference between an academic and a CEO. The former tends to over-analyse, and I'm not saying that it isn't a problem if a tiny minority "control" vast wealth, but they are not all out to get everyone, they commit to philanthropy and "our" () living standards are not being reduced. There isn't much you can do about it.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Iron Lady)
    I'm not being harsh or pedantic, but didn't you say you were upper-middle class in a thread once? Obviously you can have left-wing views as I believe in freedom of association and opinion, but I don't know why you're using language like "they" and "us" when you don't seem very hard done by.

    Sorry if this seems a bit outlandish, I'm just curious.
    i cant help but see your ignoring how i destroyed your silly restaurant analogy.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by alex5455)
    or looking at it as its more likely to happen, you cant turn down a job when on benefits, a huge multinational offers you 1.50 an hour, you have no choice but to take this job or lose your benefits, either way your worse off. and you could employ a 16 year old in that situation by the way. look at the minimum wages before talking rubbish. even in your imaginary resturant chain, you might be able to afford 5.50 but would you pay 5.50 or pay as little as possible and keep the profit for you?
    1. MNCs are much bigger than a small business I'm talking about. I prefer smaller business and microeconomics. But MNCs are a force for good rather than bad.
    2. I'm starting a business to make a profit, yes. You're living in an imaginary world if you wouldn't start private enterprise for private gain. But that's not exploiting a worker if they are happy with the wage I'm offering. I'd still pay them enough, but I still want to keep the benefits as I'm the one; 1) creating a job, 2) providing a service, and 3) taking initiative.

    i hardly see what they pay as an obscene amount, they still live lavishly.
    That doesn't justify extremely high rates like 90% "just because they can afford it". What would you do with the money raised through taxation?

    yes because clearly the consumer cares about where their stuff comes from, thats why we still have indian sweatshops.
    Consumers can stop that by refusing to buy the products.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Iron Lady)
    1. MNCs are much bigger than a small business I'm talking about. I prefer smaller business and microeconomics. But MNCs are a force for good rather than bad.
    2. I'm starting a business to make a profit, yes. You're living in an imaginary world if you wouldn't start private enterprise for private gain. But that's not exploiting a worker if they are happy with the wage I'm offering. I'd still pay them enough, but I still want to keep the benefits as I'm the one; 1) creating a job, 2) providing a service, and 3) taking initiative.



    That doesn't justify extremely high rates like 90% "just because they can afford it". What would you do with the money raised through taxation?



    Consumers can stop that by refusing to buy the products.
    your response to my multinational is pathetic, you have essentially acknowledged what i said is true then said but i dont like that sort of thing so im going to ignore it and talk about small businesses. not good enough.

    i would spend tax money on healthcare, roads, benefits to offset the damage done by this evil system.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by alex5455)
    your response to my multinational is pathetic, you have essentially acknowledged what i said is true then said but i dont like that sort of thing so im going to ignore it and talk about small businesses. not good enough.

    i would spend tax money on healthcare, roads, benefits to offset the damage done by this evil system.
    MNCs are going to happen whether you like it or not. They aren't a force for bad: they create jobs, growth and spread technology.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Why do the left want to return us to the caveman era?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by amholcroft)
    In 1911 the top 1% of the population owned up to 70% of wealth, now the top 20% owned 51% of the wealth.
    That doesn't refute anything I said. Even if you distributed all of the wealth produced in 1911 perfectly equitably the average person would still not earn as much as a person on minimum wage today. You seem to think that the amount of value created by the economy is constant; it isn't and has actually increased by a massive amount over the last hundred years.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Iron Lady)
    MNCs are going to happen whether you like it or not. They aren't a force for bad: they create jobs, growth and spread technology.
    It's as if there's a belief that MNCs are a new concept.

    Her's some historic ones for starters.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudson%27s_Bay_Company
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Iron Lady)
    MNCs are going to happen whether you like it or not. They aren't a force for bad: they create jobs, growth and spread technology.
    and you still havent answered me, just admit you cant.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by alex5455)
    your response to my multinational is pathetic, you have essentially acknowledged what i said is true then said but i dont like that sort of thing so im going to ignore it and talk about small businesses. not good enough.

    i would spend tax money on healthcare, roads, benefits to offset the damage done by this evil system.
    Where would the tax money be coming from in the first place for this investment?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Where would the tax money be coming from in the first place for this investment?
    under this current travesty of a system, taxes as we see now.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by alex5455)
    under this current travesty of a system, taxes as we see now.
    But if you undermined MNCs, you'd end up damaging tax revenues?

    Are you wanting to go back to a Merchantile sytem of the economy?
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Would you like to hibernate through the winter months?
    Useful resources

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.