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    (Original post by ArtGoblin)
    What's all this "Do you even lift?" stuff about if not pressuring other men to look good?
    Banter. That said I'm a little weird, I don't care for societal norms and how people believe I should behave, I'll act how I want to and if they don't like it that's their problem.

    Many, many men don't work out/go to the gym. I don't feel any pressure from other men to groom myself. It's women who I feel judge me the most for how I look.
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    (Original post by fat_hobbit)
    tbh this isnt a thread about my sex life.

    It is a general discussion about the genders.

    But as we are on the topic, many of my male friends are still living at home and get **** for it by women who think they are a bit of a mummys boy. Despite themselves being at home too.

    One comes to mine, he is on a very poorly paid job but due to peer pressure moved out, but because of that he will never be able to save money for a 'nice place'.
    Isn't this a bit silly though? Especially if you are an indigenous/local man, why would you specifically need to move out? (I am a migrant,worker, so naturally it is different for me - I can't be expected to live with my mother since she is in a different country (continent)).

    I doubt many indigenous/local women actually move very far for work either (most people who work on an international basis are male) - it is our gender which is more mobile in this respect!
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    (Original post by study beats)
    Who told them to have babies anyway?
    Yeah, cos, who told your mum to have you? Who told my mum to have me? Who told any woman in the world not to have a child? Hmm, it is nearly always their choice to have one - much like it was yours to post on this thread. See, most women don't complain about childbirth, you'll find that it's the ones who are mostly adolescent who present this argument.
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    (Original post by hannahisasmit)
    Watch this...I agree with the video.
    This shows that men have it harder - this poor guy has to produce **** like this just to impress his woman.
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    (Original post by alexs2602)
    Banter. That said I'm a little weird, I don't care for societal norms and how people believe I should behave, I'll act how I want to and if they don't like it that's their problem.

    Many, many men don't work out/go to the gym. I don't feel any pressure from other men to groom myself. It's women who I feel judge me the most for how I look.
    Banter: It called '*****iness' when it comes from a woman.

    It's great that you don't feel pressure to conform to society's ideal, but clearly some men do, as shown by the OP. As a woman, I won't pretend to know where those pressures do come from, but from what I've seen I would say that women in general aren't too bothered about a man's appearance. I don't often heard derogatory comments about men's bodies in the media or by friends whereas for women there is literally a constant flow of negative comments. Yes, a lot of them come from women themselves but patriarchy isn't something practised by men. It is a system that we are all brought up in, so girls grow up in a world where women's bodies are there to be judged.
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    (Original post by Leonie_Kavanagh)
    It's an anthropological inevitability, as this person has just pointed out. Women are made to carry on genetics.
    Er, you are aware that it takes a man AND a woman to 'carry on genetics'?..

    And childbirth is only an inevitability if you make the decision to have sex without birth control and the sperm fertilises the womb.
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    (Original post by effofex)
    Isn't this a bit silly though? Especially if you are an indigenous/local man, why would you specifically need to move out? (I am a migrant,worker, so naturally it is different for me - I can't be expected to live with my mother since she is in a different country (continent)).

    I doubt many indigenous/local women actually move very far for work either (most people who work on an international basis are male) - it is our gender which is more mobile in this respect!
    I agree with you.
    But its to 'fit in'.

    My friends get a harder time over this ****, telling me how the girl complains about not having their own space - due to mum and dad.

    I guess with mum and dad around they can't scream as loud as possible during sex.

    It's all fair enough, if they were willing to pay towards the rent, rather they want their cake and eat it.

    In your case I can understand why you moved out, you have no choice.
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    (Original post by ArtGoblin)
    Banter: It called '*****iness' when it comes from a woman.

    It's great that you don't feel pressure to conform to society's ideal, but clearly some men do, as shown by the OP. As a woman, I won't pretend to know where those pressures do come from, but from what I've seen I would say that women in general aren't too bothered about a man's appearance. I don't often heard derogatory comments about men's bodies in the media or by friends whereas for women there is literally a constant flow of negative comments. Yes, a lot of them come from women themselves but patriarchy isn't something practised by men. It is a system that we are all brought up in, so girls grow up in a world where women's bodies are there to be judged.
    No, banter is joking - ribbing - and we don't take it seriously. *****iness is being spiteful. There's a difference.

    I also think there's a difference between not feeling the pressure to conform and there still being those societal expectations there. You say you don't pretend to know where they come from but then go on to talk about the "patriarchy". I'm not sure it's as simple as that. I'm no sociologist though so I won't act like I'm an expert. Really? You're saying women don't care about a man's appearance? Maybe it's just how TSR seems but there seem to be a lot of shallow women out there. You might not hear derogatory comments but you can't deny there are quite unrealistic ideals women have about men. In their ideals many men are toned, with a six pack, defined muscles. I'm not saying muscular but that still requires a ton of effort. It's not even as simple as a bit of exercise, it's diet too. I was fit but you couldn't tell from looking at me because I ate what I wanted.
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    (Original post by pizzle223)
    I fell out of a tree when I was 12 and belly flopped onto concrete. My mother wasn't very sympathetic until she realised I was gonna be in intensive care for a while.

    While in intensive care a doctor explained to my Mum why I was screaming when I wasn't drugged up. He told he the pain I was going through is like an intense child birth (I'm not sure exactly how but I think he just wanted to let my Mum know why I started screaming in pain every 6 hours).

    So yeah I've been kicked in the balls and (kinda) experienced child birth.

    There isn't any comparison, they both hurt like hell! But when you get kicked in the balls it's like someone hooked your stomach and ripping it out, then the pain in the balls themselves come a while later. That sickening feeling is the worst! If I were to have constant pain for the rest of my life it definitely wouldn't be the feeling of getting kicked in the nuts. A ruptured spleen, punctured stomach and couple blood clots (my childbirth) anyday.
    Ouch, yes that sounds bad.

    My point was not that childbirth is worse but that for the OP to say a woman could always have a c-section or not get pregnant was a pretty pathetic reason to avoid pain.
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    Coming from a girl's perspective, I personally find the whole argument of 'Girl's have it rough because they go through periods, child birth etc' really quite challenging and a little pathetic. I myself, have not had a child, so I guess in a way I cannot comment to the full extent on the surplus of pain that a woman would have to go through, but surely we should take it as a positive? You are bringing a new life into the world, no man can ever have that first level of bonding with a child, they cannot spend nine months of their live effectively ensuring that they're child will be born healthy and well so why do we see it as a negative for women?

    On another note, I don't think either gender has it 'harder' in general, purely because everyone goes through different challenges, insecurities, sexual encounters, influence from media etc
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    (Original post by MomtaajRahman)
    Yeah, cos, who told your mum to have you? Who told my mum to have me? Who told any woman in the world not to have a child? Hmm, it is nearly always their choice to have one - much like it was yours to post on this thread. See, most women don't complain about childbirth, you'll find that it's the ones who are mostly adolescent who present this argument.
    Why would u have kids anyway? Its not necessary is it? Why suffer?

    I mean do u want kids, why?
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    What a pointless, ignorant post. You can't possibly make such a ridiculous statement, you either have two X chromosomes or an X and Y, not both so who are you to dismiss women's points about all these things. I could write a big fat list about how hard life is for women, but what is the actual point?

    I apologise if you think your life is soo difficult because you don't look like Ronaldo and cant find girls to sleep with you.

    But next time your sitting there feeling sorry yourself, be thankful that you have food in your fridge, a roof on your head and clean water cos there's a hell of a lot of people who don't have any of those things, now THAT'S hard.

    Rant over. Good-bye.
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    (Original post by alexs2602)
    I don't care for societal norms and how people believe I should behave, I'll act how I want to and if they don't like it that's their problem.
    +1 and :top2: to you for that
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    (Original post by Octohedral)
    As I said, I think you do have a point, but for the sake of a balanced argument, here are some downsides to being female;

    - Difficulty getting taken seriously. If a man gets angry they shout, but if a woman does the same they get laughed at and patronised. I swear this is the reason we have such a bad reputation for holding grudges - it's our only way of taking things out on people.

    - Lack of role models and traditions, current and historic. Not a massive one, but it causes an occasional twinge when I want to go for a pint with my Dad and he says it's not ladylike.

    - Childbirth and periods.

    - Pressure to look pretty. I know you seem to be acquainted with hordes of promiscuous obese women, but I can promise that doesn't feel like the reality for most of us.

    - 'Sell-by date'. Men can be attractive and able to create children until far later than women.

    Again, this is just for balancing - it doesn't invalidate your points.
    that's only because men are scary and women aren't, its not out of respect for what they're ranting about
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    wait wait wait.. men have it harder, every morning I wake up and thank the wise old zeus and apollo for bestowing me with these genitals. rather than the female kind.

    the D does not bleed every month, it wont have large fetal loads to spurt out (yes, Babies!!)

    And then on top of that we have the advantages given by society, you know the so called "patriachy", the one that feminists always bat on about. You know what that means... A system that benefits men MORE than women.

    oh and I guess I should address your point's, if you ever have to look at Ronaldo and go "I need to look like him to get laid." Im sorry but you are clueless about women. You don't need to be able to provide for a women and pay for everything, Women are allowed to have jobs (feminism again!!) and To gain status, all you need to do is make some friends.

    And I think the biggest secret to being the next Casanova, is being able to muster together some sort of coherent gibberish that sounds abit like normal conversion. Heck it has worked for me in the past.. I am no looker.
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    Men have it way easier, I cant think of anything to complain about us. Women get periods, pregnant and what not, **** that!
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    Thanks those for taking what I wrote outta context and personally attacking me. By talking about my sex life. And how I can't pull.


    Classy.

    That's when you know you've won the argument tbh.
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    (Original post by cmad95)
    wait wait wait.. men have it harder, every morning I wake up and thank the wise old zeus and apollo for bestowing me with these genitals. rather than the female kind.

    the D does not bleed every month, it wont have large fetal loads to spurt out (yes, Babies!!)

    And then on top of that we have the advantages given by society, you know the so called "patriachy", the one that feminists always bat on about. You know what that means... A system that benefits men MORE than women.

    oh and I guess I should address your point's, if you ever have to look at Ronaldo and go "I need to look like him to get laid." Im sorry but you are clueless about women. You don't need to be able to provide for a women and pay for everything, Women are allowed to have jobs (feminism again!!) and To gain status, all you need to do is make some friends.

    And I think the biggest secret to being the next Casanova, is being able to muster together some sort of coherent gibberish that sounds abit like normal conversion. Heck it has worked for me in the past.. I am no looker.
    Tbh the status **** changes post college/Uni. It becomes more about what you do for a living.

    The point about Ronaldo - men are ever increasingly feeling the pressure to look good. This is why you have people like Rooney getting hair transplants.
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    (Original post by fat_hobbit)
    I agree with you.
    But its to 'fit in'.

    My friends get a harder time over this ****, telling me how the girl complains about not having their own space - due to mum and dad.

    I guess with mum and dad around they can't scream as loud as possible during sex.

    It's all fair enough, if they were willing to pay towards the rent, rather they want their cake and eat it.

    In your case I can understand why you moved out, you have no choice.
    Maybe the 'fitting in' element is a sly method of attempting to sustain rental prices and/or land values?

    Why don't your male friends respond in kind by demanding that any prospective female partner lives outside her mother's/father's home?

    I guess you can always do the 'screaming during sex' thing when the parents are not at home? Or visit a hostel for 1 hour to undertake the sexual act?

    I fail to see why your friends let women's opinions have so much influence over them.
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    (Original post by fat_hobbit)
    We are expected:

    1. able to provide for a woman (if in a r.ship). Every girl I have been with, eventually expects me to pay for everything.
    2. A LOT of women on the other hand, can get sex much more easily then men.
    3. Acquire status, respect from our peers otherwise are considered weak.
    4. Not meant o show weakness/emotions to anyone. As a result men bottle things up more easily.
    I'm afraid I have to disagree. First of all, we are not in the medieval era, when women couldn't go out to get a job; now, most of women are very independent and it's kind of foolish to rely on your partner that much, financially speaking. Moreover, I think you haven't dated the right girl, because educated girls don't expect the guy to pay.

    Concerning the second point, I thought it was the reverse situation, owing to the fact that society doesn't disregard men as much as women (given the sexual context).

    Words like 'peers', 'not meant' show that you take into serious consideration society's view upon certain principles/facts. If we all did it, then who would be original? Because mainstream people are the ones who comply with the stereotypes, easily outshone by those who have the courage to discover themselves in an inventive way.
 
 
 
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