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Japan urges UK to stay in the EU watch

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    If we use reason rather than emotion, we'd agree to stay in the EU and strengthen our position through more negotiations.
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    (Original post by Alfissti)
    The only ones in Iceland who were begging for EU membership were a bunch of loud-mouthed left-wing politicians. New government came in last May and all negotiations for EU membership had been terminated. Either way even if the previous government had indeed managed to complete negotiations for EU accession it would never have succeeded in a referendum, not when 1 in every 3 jobs in Iceland is tied to the fishing industry.

    EFTA/EEA membership won't be automatic and negotiations could include conditions as per in Switzerland that has the power to control the actual numbers of immigrants coming in from EU. There isn't really any credible arguments that I've seen or heard off that requires UK to even remain in the EEA/EFTA to continue trading with EU member states.

    You miss the point.

    if you think that EU countries are going to want to free trade with a UK that leaves the EU, then you are wrong. Why should they? If the UK leaves the EU, it is the UK who will miss out in the long term. The EU will have Free Trade with the US when that deal is struck. The US has confirmed it will not have a Free Trade deal with the UK, if the UK leaves the EU. Also, where are we going to place the 4 Million UK citizens who will be displaced from the EU states if the UK leaves the EU?
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    (Original post by CelticSymphony67)
    That is a flawed argument.

    The UK has a population of 60,000,000. The USA has got a population of 317,000,000 and Japan has got a population of 137,000,000. Those two countries are powerhouses on the world stage in terms of manufacturing and Technology. With all due respect to the UK, it does not come even close.

    If the UK decides to leave the EU, then it will not be in any trading bloc, and two of the UK biggest trading partners (excluding the EU) have said they they will have major issues if the UK leaves the EU.

    The UK is a little island in the world. The Empire is dead, and if the UK is not careful and do not banish 'The Little Englander' thinking, then this country has had it. I have put last years trading charts below. This is while we are in the EU. So we need to think about what would happen with that trade if the UK left. The EU countries will not sign Free Trade agreements with the UK if they left.
    This. The major countries that we'll need to compete with are going to be the BRIC nations, and the USA. Apart from Brazil, all the others have either a huge land mass (and hence a bigger population) or they just generally have more of a population than us any way, which I'm not exactly sure why, but can affect trade somehow
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    (Original post by de_monies)
    This. The major countries that we'll need to compete with are going to be the BRIC nations, and the USA. Apart from Brazil, all the others have either a huge land mass (and hence a bigger population) or they just generally have more of a population than us any way, which I'm not exactly sure why, but can affect trade somehow
    Bigger Population means more workers, more tax being raised and more consumer spending. The days of British protectionism is dead. In 30-40 years we are going to have trading blocs all over the world, competing with each other. If Britain is isolated, it will lose out.

    We already have the EU, GCC, NAFTA as trading blocks, and foundations have already been laid for two more major trading blocs in Africa and South America, based on the EU model (open borders, single market, single currency etc).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_bloc
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    Good that non-EU countries are intervening to say that it would be disastrous if we left
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    These nations want us to stay in the EU because without us the EU is much weaker, and we are an open door for them into the EU. The idea that this is anything more than self-interest from the US and Japan is naive to the extreme. They are not 'reminding' us we'd be in a poorer position, they are threatening.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    These nations want us to stay in the EU because without us the EU is much weaker, and we are an open door for them into the EU. The idea that this is anything more than self-interest from the US and Japan is naive to the extreme. They are not 'reminding' us we'd be in a poorer position, they are threatening.
    The EU will be weaker without having the UK in it, but the UK will be in a lot weaker position than a EU without the UK. Like I have said before, the future is trading blocs, and if the UK is not going to be in one, then that is just going to send this country into a decline.
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    There is a point raised in the Foreign Policy audit which is worth mentioning here
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    (Original post by CelticSymphony67)
    The EU will be weaker without having the UK in it, but the UK will be in a lot weaker position than a EU without the UK. Like I have said before, the future is trading blocs, and if the UK is not going to be in one, then that is just going to send this country into a decline.
    Then the EU needs to become a more democratic and accountable organisation. The UK is one of the most key parts of the EU, it's time we hold Germany and France to account.
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    Just a point, who exactly is asking for a complete EU pull out, which parties are suggesting it? The suggestion is almost always that of a trading relationship, the Tories want renegotiation not an exit, and UKIP want a pure free trade bloc.
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    (Original post by TritonSails)
    The sad truth is that we should never have a referendum on EU membership because our immature and ignorant electorate would almost certainly vote to leave.
    You could apply that question to just about everything the government does, and we'd be ten times the nanny-state we are today if we followed your logic.
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    (Original post by Kiss)
    You could apply that question to just about everything the government does
    I can and do.
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    Japan never normally speaks out on such issues, but I view Japan as a perfectly well-respected and intelligent country. Japan wouldn't tell us to stay in if it didn't harm the interests of either side from an outsider's view (in this case Japan). Japan built itself from next to nothing at the end of the second world war and look at it now.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    Then the EU needs to become a more democratic and accountable organisation. The UK is one of the most key parts of the EU, it's time we hold Germany and France to account.
    I wouldn't say the UK is a major player in the EU. Although we are certainly not insignificant. Germany and France get the biggest say because they put the most money in, simple really. It sounds unfair, but pretty much every 'democracy' has some leading nation(s). Eg. The UN is mostly US, China and Russia's say in things. For the EU, Germany tends to lead the way, its probably best we let them lead at the moment. They've got money, resources and a much bigger economy than the UK. Plus they're not in recession and pulled through it very quickly (with France) while Spain, Italy and Ireland struggle with the UK.

    Although, Poland is faring brilliantly in the past few years! Better government, better quality of life and better education (even better than the UK), So it may become a country to watch.

    I think we simply have to wait until the economy has recovered. We keep making a plan, then changing it half way before we see the effects of it. Making a U-turn on the EU is pretty much like deciding to split England, Wales, NI and Scotland up and seeing if they can survive alone.


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    (Original post by Pokrok)
    I wouldn't say the UK is a major player in the EU. Although we are certainly not insignificant. Germany and France get the biggest say because they put the most money in, simple really. It sounds unfair, but pretty much every 'democracy' has some leading nation(s). Eg. The UN is mostly US, China and Russia's say in things. For the EU, Germany tends to lead the way, its probably best we let them lead at the moment. They've got money, resources and a much bigger economy than the UK. Plus they're not in recession and pulled through it very quickly (with France) while Spain, Italy and Ireland struggle with the UK.

    Although, Poland is faring brilliantly in the past few years! Better government, better quality of life and better education (even better than the UK), So it may become a country to watch.

    I think we simply have to wait until the economy has recovered. We keep making a plan, then changing it half way before we see the effects of it. Making a U-turn on the EU is pretty much like deciding to split England, Wales, NI and Scotland up and seeing if they can survive alone.


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    Germany and France have the leading roles at the moment, because they have the most to gain from the EU in a developed-nation sense. Germany especially, as an economy heavily based in manufacture. They are making investments to develop new markets for their products. We have much less to gain from the EU, and yet we're expected to put the same in to have the same input as Germany and France? And if we don't we're steamrolled over. Add to that, Germany and France really don't pay in more than us, as they get much more out in pure cash terms. In terms of put in and get out in cash terms circa 2011, we all pretty much pay the same.
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    British public deserve their tyranny, can't wait to get out of this dump.

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    (Original post by Steevee)
    Germany and France have the leading roles at the moment, because they have the most to gain from the EU in a developed-nation sense. Germany especially, as an economy heavily based in manufacture. They are making investments to develop new markets for their products. We have much less to gain from the EU, and yet we're expected to put the same in to have the same input as Germany and France? And if we don't we're steamrolled over. Add to that, Germany and France really don't pay in more than us, as they get much more out in pure cash terms. In terms of put in and get out in cash terms circa 2011, we all pretty much pay the same.
    We are not expected to put the same in as Germany and France, unless we want more control in the EU. That's why they lead. We're not the British Empire like we used to be, we are a weaker country and so we have to learn to live like 'quieter countries', perhaps take inspiration from Sweden, Austria, The Netherlands or even Finland?

    We get a lot out of the EU, but most of it is in the finer detail. As an island, there isn't the ease of international trade like on the land, so the EU laws has helped us tackle this issue. Education has benefited greatly, especially higher education, lot's of British students have been able to study in Europe, or at least a year aboard, thanks to schemes set up by the union.

    We cannot barge into the EU and say we want renegotiations, if we are a country that cannot decide if we want to be a part of it. You're either in or you're out, if we cannot decide as a nation, how are we meant to have a say against other countries?

    Like I've said before, people are just looking for someone/thing to blame at the moment. We like the fact that we could be 'liberated' and be 'independent', but in reality it's a foolish thing to break away when times are tough.

    Once the recession is over, and the UK economy is stable, it's then we decide whether the EU is worth it.
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    Scrap the EU, have free trade around the whole world.
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    (Original post by Pokrok)
    We are not expected to put the same in as Germany and France, unless we want more control in the EU. That's why they lead. We're not the British Empire like we used to be, we are a weaker country and so we have to learn to live like 'quieter countries', perhaps take inspiration from Sweden, Austria, The Netherlands or even Finland?

    We get a lot out of the EU, but most of it is in the finer detail. As an island, there isn't the ease of international trade like on the land, so the EU laws has helped us tackle this issue. Education has benefited greatly, especially higher education, lot's of British students have been able to study in Europe, or at least a year aboard, thanks to schemes set up by the union.

    We cannot barge into the EU and say we want renegotiations, if we are a country that cannot decide if we want to be a part of it. You're either in or you're out, if we cannot decide as a nation, how are we meant to have a say against other countries?

    Like I've said before, people are just looking for someone/thing to blame at the moment. We like the fact that we could be 'liberated' and be 'independent', but in reality it's a foolish thing to break away when times are tough.

    Once the recession is over, and the UK economy is stable, it's then we decide whether the EU is worth it.
    So we're meant to put more into an organisation we get less out of in order to have a say in the way it attempts to change and rule our economy and judicial system? Sounds fair and democratic to me. We are not a 'weaker country,' our GDP is one of the things that kept and keeps the EU fiscally viable.

    Germany and France are essentially using the EU to set up new markets for their products and goods, that's all good and well, but we do not have the same level of exports, we gain much less from financing Eastern Europe's growth. Just look at the way Merkel was proposing to cripple our finance sector only last year. The EU is run by two nations, for two nations. We are a large partner, but largely silent. Yes we get 'some' benefits from the EU, but we also get a hell of a lot of draw backs, and if our voice is not to be heard then we should simply allow the EU to see how damaging it would be for the UK to leave.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    So we're meant to put more into an organisation we get less out of in order to have a say in the way it attempts to change and rule our economy and judicial system? Sounds fair and democratic to me. We are not a 'weaker country,' our GDP is one of the things that kept and keeps the EU fiscally viable.

    Germany and France are essentially using the EU to set up new markets for their products and goods, that's all good and well, but we do not have the same level of exports, we gain much less from financing Eastern Europe's growth. Just look at the way Merkel was proposing to cripple our finance sector only last year. The EU is run by two nations, for two nations. We are a large partner, but largely silent. Yes we get 'some' benefits from the EU, but we also get a hell of a lot of draw backs, and if our voice is not to be heard then we should simply allow the EU to see how damaging it would be for the UK to leave.
    So you believe it's better to make both the UK and the EU suffer, instead of working together?

    Basically, the UK isn't that fantastic, I know people like to think it is, but we aren't doing that great in both money and lifestyle. Sure, Eastern Europe is poor, but they doing better, thanks to some of our money. We help them because they need the growth. In the end, they can become very good trading partners, and this would help to boost UK exports. Look at what the US did for Japan and South Korea, through financial and judicial support, they have become economic powerhouses and a huge partner to the US. A lot of European countries see this as an investment, hence why it's usually just the UK and perhaps Denmark that veto proposals.

    Our GDP is good, but the combined EU GDP is the highest in the world, higher than the US, China and Russia.

    The UK needs to take a back seat in this, we don't always need to try be at the centre of everything. We don't have the money nor representation to take direct control of the EU. It doesn't mean we are giving in to our neighbours, it means we are working with them. They've got an idea and the time, money and resources to do it, so why not let them take the risk for you?

    The UK wasn't even a founding member, and did not join until 1973. This was a good 16 years after the first steps were taken in the process towards economic integration.


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