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Opposition & Coalition forums watch

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  • View Poll Results: If we were to change something brought up in this topic, what should we do?
    Remove the Opposition and Coalition forums
    24.00%
    Stop the bill/motion challenge
    32.00%
    Stop the MP review
    32.00%
    --------On a trial basis for next term
    32.00%
    --------Permanently
    16.00%
    Limit the forum/s to a few standard policy, bills & stickied threads
    8.00%
    Maintain the status quo
    48.00%

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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    Box plots are supposed to have lines at the top and bottom, not dots. Representing the highest and lowest figures.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Box_plot
    The horizontal lines are customary, but certainly not necessary – they provide no additional information. The figure is not for print so I was focusing on the data rather than unnecessary visual tweaks.
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    The horizontal lines are customary, but certainly not necessary – they provide no additional information. The figure is not for print so I was focusing on the data rather than unnecessary visual tweaks.
    The idea of it is to highlight those two figures since they usually aren't distinguished easily on graph paper, or on print outs. I've never seen them not lined out, so I suspect that is the common box plot.
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    The idea of it is to highlight those two figures since they usually aren't distinguished easily on graph paper, or on print outs. I've never seen them not lined out, so I suspect that is the common box plot.
    Are you having troubles identifying those whiskers/extremes or outliers? I bet that you have never seen many types of graphs and this is simply the way box plots are implemented by an R library ggplot2 which is based on the Grammar of Graphics by Leland Wilkinson. Deal with it, I guess… :dontknow:
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    So the result has more support than I was expecting, considering this is the first time the discussion has been had on the topic. If I may be so bold as to put out a presumption - as with the creation of these sub-fora, I think it will take several discussions being started over the space of many months before there's significant movement. The important thing is the idea is now out there. The stopping the bills/motion challenge and mp review was something that cropped up a bit later in the discussion - I'm not progressing with them at this stage but that doesn't stop anyone that wants to.
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    (Original post by Indievertigo)
    So the result has more support than I was expecting, considering this is the first time the discussion has been had on the topic. If I may be so bold as to put out a presumption - as with the creation of these sub-fora, I think it will take several discussions being started over the space of many months before there's significant movement. The important thing is the idea is now out there. The stopping the bills/motion challenge and mp review was something that cropped up a bit later in the discussion - I'm not progressing with them at this stage but that doesn't stop anyone that wants to.
    Although the majority was to retain the status quo...
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    (Original post by Will95206)
    Although the majority was to retain the status quo...

    Yep, but propose anything slightly radical and the majority usually will go with the status quo. Like I said, these things take time to be subliminally rationalised. I expect the same idea to crop up again in a couple of months or so, and then again, until eventually the majority are in favour. This was the way with the introduction of them and will be the way with the end of them.
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    To be honest amendment discussions are far more pro reform than the votes. But then again, turnout was low here and I don't think everybody who voted was an MP.
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    (Original post by Indievertigo)
    Yep, but propose anything slightly radical and the majority usually will go with the status quo. Like I said, these things take time to be subliminally rationalised. I expect the same idea to crop up again in a couple of months or so, and then again, until eventually the majority are in favour. This was the way with the introduction of them and will be the way with the end of them.
    Unless there is a genuine consensus that they contribute more than they take away.
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    (Original post by Blue Meltwater)
    Unless there is a genuine consensus that they contribute more than they take away.
    Consensus blows in the wind. It's evidence that matters.
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    (Original post by Indievertigo)
    Consensus blows in the wind. It's evidence that matters.
    Unfortunately, it is very unlikely that we will be able to collect sufficient direct evidence even in let us say two years because the time span required to observe the effects is too broad. We would need a complex model to account for many uncontrolled variables like the overall activity of individual members, their composition, their relationships, special events, or the appeal of the debated legislation, and of course the noise, which would make the experiment rather weak and the findings unlikely to be taken seriously.

    We could base our opinions on the existing general findings from the field of social psychology slash sociology but I believe there is no definite answer in this case. I think that the difference in our behaviour that you seem to be experiencing could be the result of a general cultural change that has progressed over the last year, instead of the existence of the coalition fora.

    I am still open to trying it but it will undoubtedly make the cross-party communication more difficult and slower. However, it is definitely higher on the list than the House of Lords.
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    Unfortunately, it is very unlikely that we will be able to collect sufficient direct evidence even in let us say two years because the time span required to observe the effects is too broad. We would need a complex model to account for many uncontrolled variables like the overall activity of individual members, their composition, their relationships, special events, or the appeal of the debated legislation, and of course the noise, which would make the experiment rather weak and the findings unlikely to be taken seriously.

    We could base our opinions on the existing general findings from the field of social psychology slash sociology but I believe there is no definite answer in this case. I think that the difference in our behaviour that you seem to be experiencing could be the result of a general cultural change that has progressed over the last year, instead of the existence of the coalition fora.

    I am still open to trying it but it will undoubtedly make the cross-party communication more difficult and slower. However, it is definitely higher on the list than the House of Lords.
    The ironic thing is is that if we'd started with a House of Lords in the first place, I'm pretty certain they'd have been abolished by now for ideological reasons!
 
 
 
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