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    Here are my reasons for partially disagreeing with abortion:

    (1) Killing another is wrong
    (2) Science is our source of knowledge
    (3) Science will never be able to prove when life begins
    (4) Thus when a child is aborted, there is a chance that we are terminating life
    (5) If we agree that life begins at contraception, this problem is negligible
    (6) Abortion is wrong because of (1).

    Another disadvantage includes the emotional turmoil of losing a child to abortion. I encourage you to find me a circumstance where a woman has been left emotionally positive after this kind of operation.

    I accept that there might be some extreme scenarios where abortion is the best way forward.
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    (Original post by Hariex)
    Here are my reasons for partially disagreeing with abortion:

    (1) Killing another is wrong
    (2) Science is our source of knowledge
    (3) Science will never be able to prove when life begins
    (4) Thus when a child is aborted, there is a chance that we are terminating life
    (5) If we agree that life begins at contraception, this problem is negligible
    (6) Abortion is wrong because of (1).

    Another disadvantage includes the emotional turmoil of losing a child to abortion. I encourage you to find me a circumstance where a woman has been left emotionally positive after this kind of operation.

    I accept that there might be some extreme scenarios where abortion is the best way forward.
    Science can prove when life begins. At the point of contraception the 'life' is just a bunch of cells, no brain, no blood, no heart. And its the same a few weeks later which is when most abortions take place
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    (Original post by Ubergooose)
    Science can prove when life begins.
    Personally, I do not believe that science can prove when life begins. The definition of "life" is very metaphysical - it deals a lot with things like conscience, soul, the meaning of "person", etc. Science deals with observation and experimentation rather than these philosophical ideas.

    At the point of contraception the 'life' is just a bunch of cells, no brain, no blood, no heart. And its the same a few weeks later which is when most abortions take place
    The problem here is that we can never know when somebody becomes a "person". We can never know when somebody is conscious. Thus, placing our standard for life at the very beginning removes the possibility of killing a fetus.
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    (Original post by Hariex)
    Personally, I do not believe that science can prove when life begins. The definition of "life" is very metaphysical - it deals a lot with things like conscience, soul, the meaning of "person", etc. Science deals with observation and experimentation rather than these philosophical ideas.



    The problem here is that we can never know when somebody becomes a "person". We can never know when somebody is conscious. Thus, placing our standard for life at the very beginning removes the possibility of killing a fetus.
    How about this then, If we apparently don't know when 'life' begins, is ejaculation murder? Is my period murder?
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    (Original post by Hariex)
    Here are my reasons for partially disagreeing with abortion:

    (1) Killing another is wrong
    (2) Science is our source of knowledge
    (3) Science will never be able to prove when life begins
    (4) Thus when a child is aborted, there is a chance that we are terminating life
    (5) If we agree that life begins at contraception, this problem is negligible
    (6) Abortion is wrong because of (1).

    Another disadvantage includes the emotional turmoil of losing a child to abortion. I encourage you to find me a circumstance where a woman has been left emotionally positive after this kind of operation.

    I accept that there might be some extreme scenarios where abortion is the best way forward.
    I've had two abortions. Pretty chipper about both of them, in fact I'm quite certain that I would be considerably more unhappy in life if I had not had them. So there's a circumstance where one was left "emotionally positive" after an abortion. Funnily enough though I don't think you'll regard my little anecdote as having any value at all, you seem to already have made your mind up. Ho hum.
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    (Original post by Messalina)
    I've had two abortions. Pretty chipper about both of them, in fact I'm quite certain that I would be considerably more unhappy in life if I had not had them. So there's a circumstance where one was left "emotionally positive" after an abortion. Funnily enough though I don't think you'll regard my little anecdote as having any value at all, you seem to already have made your mind up. Ho hum.
    I welcome your opinion and I hope that you'll excuse my ignorance.

    If you don't mind me asking, did your decision incur any emotional negativity?
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    (Original post by Hariex)
    I welcome your opinion and I hope that you'll excuse my ignorance.

    If you don't mind me asking, did your decision incur any emotional negativity?
    It was physically uncomfortable at the exact time when it happened, that didn't exactly make me happy. But every part of the decision was what I wanted, and it made me very happy that I was able to get that without judgement or shaming on the part of health professionals involved. The hormonal reaction to both pregnancies was extremely unpleasant (intense morning sickness, headaches, mood swings, cramps) and within hours of ending the pregnancies those stopped, which also made me happy.

    I would warn you against making sweeping statements about how all abortions make women unhappy and throws them into emotional turmoil. I would in fact counter that in my situation I may well have done things incredibly detrimental to my own health as well as that of the foetus if I had not had the choice to terminate the pregnancy. If I had not had safe access to abortion I still would have walked over hot coals to get one. I am grateful to our government that I was able to receive abortions in a dignified matter that was sympathetic to my needs.
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    (Original post by Rosie786)
    I know its legalised in UK under the 1967 act but should it be repealed?

    There are so many couples who are childless as the women cannot conceive or gay people who would love to adopt children. Isn't it better to give birth to the child and then put him/her up for adoption if the child is unwanted?

    I know there are rape cases but putting them aside. Now a day i have seen women just aborting the child because they don't want to take care of them?

    Your thoughts?
    No a lot of children don't get adopted as it is so banning abortion would just be making more unwanted unloved children and increasing the population. For a large portion of the pregnancy the foetus has no feelings and feels no pain, it's no difference aborting a foetus than stopping conception. That being said it personally isn't for me and I would hate to be in a situation where I had to have it done but if it was a choice between aborting a foetus and having it have a horrible life I'd pick the abortion and all women should have that choice if people don't agree with it don't have it done but people shouldn't have the right to tell people what they can and can't do with their bodies.
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    (Original post by Messalina)
    It was physically uncomfortable at the exact time when it happened, that didn't exactly make me happy. But every part of the decision was what I wanted, and it made me very happy that I was able to get that without judgement or shaming on the part of health professionals involved. The hormonal reaction to both pregnancies was extremely unpleasant (intense morning sickness, headaches, mood swings, cramps) and within hours of ending the pregnancies those stopped, which also made me happy.
    I gather that there was not any maternal trauma from losing a child?

    I would warn you against making sweeping statements about how all abortions make women unhappy and throws them into emotional turmoil. I would in fact counter that in my situation I may well have done things incredibly detrimental to my own health as well as that of the foetus if I had not had the choice to terminate the pregnancy. If I had not had safe access to abortion I still would have walked over hot coals to get one. I am grateful to our government that I was able to receive abortions in a dignified matter that was sympathetic to my needs.
    I understand that my sweeping statement was unjustified. It is of my experience, however, that all of the abortions I have studied have been in negative conditions. Certainly, a woman can be left emotionally positive in the long run, I am just curious as to the maternal implications in the aftermath of the operation.
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    Yes
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    (Original post by Ubergooose)
    How about this then, If we apparently don't know when 'life' begins, is ejaculation murder? Is my period murder?
    I think of it like this:

    Technically, I am a potential doctor. I have the ability to enroll at school, achieve the grades I need, study medicine and become a doctor. Now, if I was twelve years old and sent a letter denying me the opportunity to become a doctor, it would not change much, particularly considering I had plenty of career paths to choose from.

    However, if I was sent this letter whilst I was studying medicine, the impact would be far more severe. This fact is obvious - I was far more involved in the process of becoming a doctor.

    This is a parallel with abortion. Ejaculating is like sending that letter to the kid. Abortion is the latter example.

    Also, in answer to your question, sperm or eggs in isolation are not and can not be the start of life, seeing as two of them are required for the creation of the sex cell. We can't say that the cake is delicious when we only have the cherry.
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    (Original post by Messalina)
    I've had two abortions. Pretty chipper about both of them, in fact I'm quite certain that I would be considerably more unhappy in life if I had not had them. So there's a circumstance where one was left "emotionally positive" after an abortion. Funnily enough though I don't think you'll regard my little anecdote as having any value at all, you seem to already have made your mind up. Ho hum.
    I agree with you here. I had an abortion 2 yrs ago after my pill failed and I was also just recovering from pneumonia. I didn't once feel bad about having an abortion. In fact, I was suicidal when I found out I was pregnant as I have never wanted kids and neither did my partner (we were together 3 yrs at that point and living together and are still together now. People seem to find it shocking a long term couple would ever consider an abortion). I know a few girls who have had an abortion about 99% of them are either happy they had it done or are indifferent. The 1% that you do hear about regretting or being upset about their abortions are those who are sadly forced into it by a partner or have to abort for medical reasons which is understandable why they feel awful after theirs but if an abortion was chosen by the woman for her own reasons and no one bullied her into the choice, then no she most likely wouldn't regret it in the slightest.
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    (Original post by Hariex)
    I gather that there was not any maternal trauma from losing a child?



    I understand that my sweeping statement was unjustified. It is of my experience, however, that all of the abortions I have studied have been in negative conditions. Certainly, a woman can be left emotionally positive in the long run, I am just curious as to the maternal implications in the aftermath of the operation.
    I did not lose a child, I terminated a pregnancy. They are very different things in my eyes. I will happily have children in the future if I find the right partner, and am financially comfortable enough to give a child a good upbringing. Both my pregnancies arose from failed contraception (antibiotics affecting the pill's effectiveness). I will continue to take contraceptives unless I want to conceive and if they fail again when I do not want to conceive, I will have another abortion, and another and another if necessary. That is my choice.

    As for maternal trauma, no. I don't know what "maternal trauma" means exactly, feel free to explain it to me. I did not feel some huge heart wrenching moment of "oh no, my poor baby, I will weep because of my empty womb" because I didn't want a damn baby, I like my womb to remain an empty vessel thanks very much. Funnily enough when the last thing in the world that you want is a baby, when you get rid of it all you feel is relief that everything is back to normal.

    Some women may well feel unhappy after abortions, but that is not necessarily because of the loss of the foetus, there are many reasons one may be upset. For me, personally, I was 100% cheerful afterwards. Best thing I ever did. And it meant I could eat chocolate again without throwing up, bonus!
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    (Original post by Yasmin25)
    I agree with you here. I had an abortion 2 yrs ago after my pill failed and I was also just recovering from pneumonia. I didn't once feel bad about having an abortion. In fact, I was suicidal when I found out I was pregnant as I have never wanted kids and neither did my partner (we were together 3 yrs at that point and living together and are still together now. People seem to find it shocking a long term couple would ever consider an abortion). I know a few girls who have had an abortion about 99% of them are either happy they had it done or are indifferent. The 1% that you do hear about regretting or being upset about their abortions are those who are sadly forced into it by a partner or have to abort for medical reasons which is understandable why they feel awful after theirs but if an abortion was chosen by the woman for her own reasons and no one bullied her into the choice, then no she most likely wouldn't regret it in the slightest.
    Exactly. I'm not pro-abortion, I'm pro-CHOICE. Let every woman decide what is best for her, and don't judge her for it regardless of what she chooses. It's so damn simple. I wish the rest of the world would see it. It's the judgement and removal of choice that causes all the harm, not the act itself.
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    I still don't understand how those who are pro-choice can justify the killing of a fetus without justifying the killing of a newborn child.

    Even so, legally-speaking, I don't think there should be a blanket ban on abortions, for there are certain exceptional situations in which it would be more utilitarian to abort a baby.
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    (Original post by Hariex)
    Here are my reasons for partially disagreeing with abortion:

    (1) Killing another is wrong Why? Disagree
    (2) Science is our source of knowledgeAgree
    (3) Science will never be able to prove when life beginsDisagree
    (4) Thus when a child is aborted, there is a chance that we are terminating lifeAgree
    (5) If we agree that life begins at contraception, this problem is negligible Disagree
    (6) Abortion is wrong because of (1). Disagree

    Another disadvantage includes the emotional turmoil of losing a child to abortion. I encourage you to find me a circumstance where a woman has been left emotionally positive after this kind of operation.

    I accept that there might be some extreme scenarios where abortion is the best way forward.
    Why is killing inherently "wrong"?

    Killing is not illegal, murder is. Distinct difference.

    Also most women feel relief after an abortion, not emotional turmoil.
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    For people answering "no, abortion should not be made illegal", I have another question:

    Suppose for example, that the scans show that the foetus will be a girl, whereas the parents wanted to have a boy. Should it be legal for the parents to choose to abort, in those circumstances?
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    For people answering "no, abortion should not be made illegal", I have another question:

    Suppose for example, that the scans show that the foetus will be a girl, whereas the parents wanted to have a boy. Should it be legal for the parents to choose to abort, in those circumstances?
    Sex selective abortion is not legal. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...-announce.html
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    Personally, I would say that abortion should be illegal, unless there are exceptional circumstances (e.g. pregnancy would seriously endanger the mother's life).


    There are many examples of killing which we all pretty much agree, should be illegal. For example: Killing a newborn baby because the parents don't want to look after it, killing someone who is unconscious because they won't even know or care that their life is ending, killing someone who has no friends or family because nobody will miss them...

    If we take all that as given, then I don't see how it's possible to build a consistent case for abortion to be legal. All justifications that I've ever seen for abortion (e.g. if isn't conscious, it doesn't care whether it lives or dies, so it's fine to kill it), if applied as a general principle, will end up conflicting with one of our original agreed premises. For example, the one I mentioned in brackets just now would suggest that killing someone who is unconscious should be legal, which is absurd.


    Whilst I agree that people should have the right to choose whether or not to carry a child, the strength of this argument is heavily reduced by the fact that it's quite easy to reduce, or completely avoid the risk of pregnancy by using contraception or abstaining from sex. In the vast majority of cases (i.e. other than rape), if you're pregnant (or have got someone else pregnant), it's entirely your own doing in the first place.
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    (Original post by Messalina)
    Sex selective abortion is not legal. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...-announce.html
    I'm aware of it. In fact, abortion in general is not legal in the UK, unless two doctors agree that the pregnancy will damage the mother's physical or mental health. (Although I suppose in practice, "damaging to the mother's mental health" can be interpreted very liberally).

    But for those who believe that abortion should be legal, on grounds as basic as "the mother doesn't want to have the child", I'd be interested to find out whether they believe that sex-selective abortion should be legal or not.
 
 
 
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