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    (Original post by Jacob-C)
    Thank you. That was a very productive five minutes.
    only five!? i'm shocked and appalled.
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    (Original post by Unkempt_One)
    What makes Britain different in a way that traditional methods wouldn't work?
    Do you think traditional methods would work? Society in places like Singapore have a different attitude towards education. There were people I went to secondary school with who didn't even get a C at GCSE maths. How does Gove believe that by suddenly introducing traditional methods kids are going to be the best in the world?
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    So glad he's gone, all my teachers despised him and his planned reforms in History were going to make the subject the most dull and uninspiring thing. I'd like to think these reforms now won't go ahead now he's been delegated elsewhere. Gutted i've finished college now my Geography teacher's reaction to this would have been priceless. He had to create a swear jar to stop himself ranting about Gove.
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    He had good intentions, it's just the methods that were dubious. More education experts and a little more time to hammer out proposals before they were announced - and we might react in a very different way to his departure.

    Regardless, this is a planned move by Cameron, and a very clever one at that. Not only has he increased the number of women in Cabinet, he's given Gove a back-room role which will allow him to cater to other parts of party work, if you know what I mean, alongside Hague.

    It's not the last we've heard from him.
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    I am thrilled that he is out. He has damaged the Education System for too long now. Hopefully Nicky Morgan can pick up the piece. But something tells me, the damage is already done.... :no:
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    There is a fair amount of admiration for Gove in Blairite circles, which tells you most of what you need to know.

    Oh, and this new Education Secretary...whatever her name is...has a relatively small majority. So don't expect any radical measures from her in the next ten months.
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    (Original post by pink pineapple)
    Do you think traditional methods would work? Society in places like Singapore have a different attitude towards education. There were people I went to secondary school with who didn't even get a C at GCSE maths. How does Gove believe that by suddenly introducing traditional methods kids are going to be the best in the world?
    Yes, I think they would. We don't really have the financial resources to try very experimental or high-cost methods, but traditional methods don't require much money, just strict discipline and a strong curriculum. Attitudes to education can change in this way, hell they need to change if the UK at all expects to be relevant in the long-term. Regardless, the way ofsted and academies are organised nowadays means that schools can use any methods so long as they are effective. The dogmatic component is the level of rigour in the curriculum, and regardless of whether traditional teaching methods are used at individual schools, having a challenging curriculum will force teachers to spend less time playing stupid games in lessons and more time actually teaching kids about history and how to solve problems.
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    (Original post by Unkempt_One)
    Yes, I think they would. We don't really have the financial resources to try very experimental or high-cost methods, but traditional methods don't require much money, just strict discipline and a strong curriculum. Attitudes to education can change in this way, hell they need to change if the UK at all expects to be relevant in the long-term. Regardless, the way ofsted and academies are organised nowadays means that schools can use any methods so long as they are effective. The dogmatic component is the level of rigour in the curriculum, and regardless of whether traditional teaching methods are used at individual schools, having a challenging curriculum will force teachers to spend less time playing stupid games in lessons and more time actually teaching kids about history and how to solve problems.
    I agree with the bit about less time playing games and more time spent on teaching, obviously this is going to improve kids' learning, no-one would deny that. I don't agree on Gove's 'Britain-centric' history syllabus though.
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    Gove has been the David Moyes of Politics. No idea what he was doing, universally despised amongst his colleagues and nobody had any confidence in him being able to do a good job.
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    (Original post by pink pineapple)
    I agree with the bit about less time playing games and more time spent on teaching, obviously this is going to improve kids' learning, no-one would deny that. I don't agree on Gove's 'Britain-centric' history syllabus though.
    There are a couple of things I can nitpick about Gove's reforms. I think a Britain-centric history curriculum would be better at developing a sense of cause-and-effect in events, but there is a lot of fascinating world history we don't get taught that could perhaps be integrated somehow. The biggest issue for me is the removal of AS-levels, which I can understand from a perspective of improving rigour, but will undermine attempts of universities to even the field for applicants from different backgrounds. More emphasis would have to be placed on personal statements and teacher's evaluations, which will favour private school students. However, the main thrust of Gove's reforms - increasing the breadth and depth of the curriculum, and making state schools more independent in how they can plan their teaching within that framework - is to me common sense, and I can't imagine how it won't massively pay off in the long term.
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    Just when you thought this was a healthy change in the Cabinet...

    Nicky Morgan: New Education Secretary voted against same-sex marriage and for restricted abortion access

    I never thought I would be defending Gove, but at least he wasn't a nut on social issues like equality.
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    quit / axed = blackmailed with child abuse claims.

    fire everyone or axe them before the child abuse enquiry begins, well done Cameron.
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    So many people on this thread seem to have their views shaped by media sensationalism. So many poorly informed statements.
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    Blob 1 Gove 0
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    His replacement isn't exactly a big name... Wouldn't be surprised if he's still pulling the strings begin the scenes. Either way, it was a good idea to get him out of the spotlight. He's had some absolutely horrendous policies, but even his decent ones were ripped to shreds purely because it was him who'd pushed them through


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    Education needs to advance not stagnate or go backwards. To those licking Gove's arse, his policies were backwards not progressive. They would not have lead to a better education system, or better educated individuals arriving into industry or universities.

    They simply need to start introducing topics in subjects a year or two earlier. This way they can add some more higher level materials, and cover the topics more broadly.

    Critical thinking, problem solving and philosophy, should be introduced alongside the Base subjects of Maths, English, Science and Computing. They should also be made compulsory.

    Education needs to become much more interactive, and assignments should be set on topics covered in the past, to refresh the knowledge. This will also serve to further integrate it into the students memories.

    All in all Gove was a pretentious prat with an ego about the same size as Camerons. Education is not a political football, nor is it a left or right issue.

    Students need to be able to advance through the stages of the curriculum, as and when they are ready too. This will mean some students get held back, some maintain steady progress, and some get through it much quicker. Flexibility is the key, not rigidity. Holding students back, or pushing them on before they are ready and able, is absolute idiocy at its finest.

    Privatising the education system will cause even more damage. Look at America, widely seen to be one of the dumbest nations on this planet. They now have to draw intellectual talent from other Countries, because of the pathetic condition of its own citizens intellectual abilities.

    It's about time somebody with an ounce of common sense and specialist knowledge in the field concerned became Secretary. The same goes for all other posts in Government. Get rid of party politics, and actually manage society properly by having the most appropriately skilled and relevant person doing the job.

    Rant over....
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    (Original post by democracyforum)
    quit / axed = blackmailed with child abuse claims.

    fire everyone or axe them before the child abuse enquiry begins, well done Cameron.
    Are you accusing Mr Gove of being a paedophile ?
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    (Original post by Huskaris)
    Teaching is an exceptionally left wing profession. They will never be happy with a Conservative teaching minister until they reduce the teaching day from mid day until 1, on days beginning with M in months beginning with D.
    With a nice break for Christmas and New Year, obviously


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    When all is said and done he was a man who was trying to instill the values of hard work back into the education system. Now that he has left, and all this hysteria surrounding him has started to fade, I'm in no doubt people will remember him as someone who tried to make education more competitive and based on merit which I cannot disrespect him for.
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    (Original post by MrEFeynman)
    Education needs to advance not stagnate or go backwards. To those licking Gove's arse, his policies were backwards not progressive. They would not have lead to a better education system, or better educated individuals arriving into industry or universities.
    What we had under labour was stagnation too, just on a different bearing.

    Critical thinking, problem solving and philosophy, should be introduced alongside the Base subjects of Maths, English, Science and Computing. They should also be made compulsory.
    People always exaggerate the need for computing skills in this country... There is no shortage of computer science graduates; if anything there is a surplus. Many programming jobs are outsourced to India, with someone in the UK who really knows what they're doing managing them.

    Students need to be able to advance through the stages of the curriculum, as and when they are ready too. This will mean some students get held back, some maintain steady progress, and some get through it much quicker. Flexibility is the key, not rigidity. Holding students back, or pushing them on before they are ready and able, is absolute idiocy at its finest.
    Great idea in theory, but fragmenting peer groups at the most fragile stage of social development is a recipe for disaster. Most research suggests moving children 'up a year' is rarely a good move.

    Privatising the education system will cause even more damage. Look at America, widely seen to be one of the dumbest nations on this planet. They now have to draw intellectual talent from other Countries, because of the pathetic condition of its own citizens intellectual abilities.
    I don't think anyone was suggesting that we privatise the education system.

    It's about time somebody with an ounce of common sense and specialist knowledge in the field concerned became Secretary. The same goes for all other posts in Government. Get rid of party politics, and actually manage society properly by having the most appropriately skilled and relevant person doing the job.
    Like China, you mean?
    Agree with the part about ministers being better qualified for their jobs though. Take Liam Fox for example - former GP, plenty of knowledge of the successes and failings of the NHS. But pre-scandal, was he our health minister? Neowwww, he was in charge of the armed forces and our nuclear missiles.




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