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    (Original post by Dalek1099)
    Additional Further Maths requires a deeper understanding of Mathematics as you do all of the hardest modules like M4-M5 which are seriously probably like Mechanics modulesv at university from what I have heard and they require you to be superb at pure and mechanics all at once.
    I wouldn't say M4/M5 are anything like university mechanics (as DJ Mayes says, possible exception of variable mass). They certainly don't require you to be "superb at pure and mechanics all at once" (I might agree if you replaced "superb" with competent). It's a shame that they seem to have reduced the "differentiate the energy equation to get equations of motion" to "stable/unstable equilibrium", as I always thought this was one of the more interesting areas (kind of heading towards the concept of the Lagrangian at university).

    Funnily, I always felt the most "demanding" part of mechanics at A-level was "statics of rigid bodies", which is now just a small part of M2. There are many STEP III mechanics questions that only require this.
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    (Original post by atsruser)
    An "average" 1st year university course in mechanics will cover far more, and far more quickly, than M1-M5 at A level. Typically you're going to see some combination of:...
    (Original post by DFranklin)
    I wouldn't say M4/M5 are anything like university mechanics (as DJ Mayes says, possible exception of variable mass). They certainly don't require you to be "superb at pure and mechanics all at once" (I might agree if you replaced "superb" with competent). It's a shame that they seem to have reduced the "differentiate the energy equation to get equations of motion" to "stable/unstable equilibrium", as I always thought this was one of the more interesting areas (kind of heading towards the concept of the Lagrangian at university)....
    You both seem to be using your (Oxbridge) experience of Mechanics at Uni as the average experience for undergraduates. I went to Nottingham and the first year Mechanics was pretty simple if you'd done M1-M3 and FP1-FP3 - there was a lot of repetition. Other Unis of similar reputations have even easier courses.
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    (Original post by notnek)
    You both seem to be using your (Oxbridge) experience of Mechanics at Uni as the average experience for undergraduates. I went to Nottingham and the first year Mechanics was pretty simple if you'd done M1+2 and all the FPs - there was a lot of repetition. Other Unis of similar reputations have even easier courses.
    Was it really repetition, or was it "this is something you may have done before, but we're going to have a lot more abstraction/generality now"? (The latter happened quite a lot during Cambridge IA applied courses).

    Also, as I've said before, I think the "mechanics of a rigid object" part of M2 is really the "core" of A-level mechanics; if you are good with that, the rest of it is really just applying pure maths techniques in different ways. [To go back to the M1-M5 thing, I took about 6 months really getting my head 'round this topic (and it's the one thing where I really needed a teacher to help). I subsequently did (more than) the equivalent of M3-M5 in a few months on my own without any difficulty].
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    (Original post by notnek)
    You both seem to be using your (Oxbridge) experience of Mechanics at Uni as the average experience for undergraduates. I went to Nottingham and the first year Mechanics was pretty simple if you'd done M1-M3 and FP1-FP3 - there was a lot of repetition. Other Unis of similar reputations have even easier courses.
    I agree, if you done, i went to Warwick uni for 1st year and lot of Maths, especially Mechanic module are being taught in M1+M2 before. The main variation come from Pure Maths such as Analysis and Linear Algebra, but even matrices have been somewhat heavily taught in thee FP3 modules if you doing Edxcel
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    (Original post by Dalek1099)
    This is not necessarily the case "There is potentially a place in further mathematics for a serious strand of mathematics based on discrete mathematics and this could be considered as an additional strand alongside mechanics and statistics. However, this will require scrutiny to ensure that it will be perceived as a valuable part of further mathematics." so it looks like decision mathematics may well form part of further mathematics.Can anyone else find out where it says AFM is dead? if it is it is a real shame and shows how bad the Department of Education has become because all universities for Maths and mathematically related courses want their students to study as much mathematics as possible and I feel that Additional Further Maths gives the very best maths students a chance to stand out and enrich their mathematical study making them more prepared for their university course.
    Decision Maths in its current form is gone - the potential for new Discrete content to be developed is there.

    It doesn't say anyway in these documents that AFM is gone but take my word for it. I can't be bothered to find you a link but only certain A Levels have been approved for reform and this is not one of them.
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    (Original post by Dalek1099)
    Additional Further Maths requires a deeper understanding of Mathematics as you do all of the hardest modules like M4-M5 which are seriously probably like Mechanics modulesv at university from what I have heard and they require you to be superb at pure and mechanics all at once.
    Don't get into the mindset of assuming that "more modules + more qualifications = better student". As others have said, it's the depth of knowledge that matters, not the breadth.

    You can take out the 2 Decision modules without hurting anyone; at least half of the current S1 content is pure drivel and not A level standard; and you can probably lose about half a module's worth of statistical tests from later modules without damaging a student's statistical foundations at all. So that's about 3 modules of content that can really be removed without compromising anything!

    Also remember that when the modular system first came in, the core content was contained in three modules (P1, P2, P3) and students did P1-P3 plus three applied modules for A level! So the current dumbed-down modular system needs more modules to get to the same point and as DFranklin says, it's the basic A level that's weaker.

    There really is no need for "AFM" or anything like it - the important content should be teachable within two qualifications M + FM. What we need is less "hand-holding" like "this part of the question is worth two marks, and this part is worth three" or "here's the substitution you need to do this integral".
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    (Original post by davros)
    Don't get into the mindset of assuming that "more modules + more qualifications = better student". As others have said, it's the depth of knowledge that matters, not the breadth.

    You can take out the 2 Decision modules without hurting anyone; at least half of the current S1 content is pure drivel and not A level standard; and you can probably lose about half a module's worth of statistical tests from later modules without damaging a student's statistical foundations at all. So that's about 4 modules of content that can really be removed without compromising anything!

    Also remember that when the modular system first came in, the core content was contained in three modules (P1, P2, P3) and students did P1-P3 plus three applied modules for A level! So the current dumbed-down modular system needs more modules to get to the same point and as DFranklin says, it's the basic A level that's weaker.

    There really is no need for "AFM" or anything like it - the important content should be teachable within two qualifications M + FM. What we need is less "hand-holding" like "this part of the question is worth two marks, and this part is worth three" or "here's the substitution you need to do this integral".
    I am doing D1 in A2 Maths so I can't take that out and I wouldn't advise stripping out sections when I may as well sit the exam and show my self-study commitment to the Cambridge University and give myself the best chance for STEP and removing D1,D2,half of S1 and half of statistical tests only adds up to three modules one of which I already must do so I may as well complete the full A-Level.
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    (Original post by Dalek1099)
    I am doing D1 in A2 Maths so I can't take that out and I wouldn't advise stripping out sections when I may as well sit the exam and show my self-study commitment to the Cambridge University and give myself the best chance for STEP and removing D1,D2,half of S1 and half of statistical tests only adds up to three modules one of which I already must do so I may as well complete the full A-Level.
    I wasn't trying to tell you what you should do if you are already part-way through the course - obviously you can't change the commitments you have already made.

    I was responding to you in general terms explaining why AFM is utterly unnecessary and it does no harm to eliminate it. The content needed by Unis should be teachable within 2 full A levels, as it always used to be before the artificial modular system came in.
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    The changes seem fine. People that are determined on inflicting STEP on the general population are sadistic.
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    (Original post by Mr M)
    I've already answered this. Additional FM is dead.
    This is a bad idea.

    The rest sounds like a step in the right direction.
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    (Original post by ClickItBack)
    This is a bad idea.

    The rest sounds like a step in the right direction.
    Why is it a bad idea?
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    (Original post by TenOfThem)
    Why is it a bad idea?
    I don't like the cutting out of content in general. Yes, depth is more important than breadth, but some useful material e.g. generating functions in S4 will presumably not be on the syllabus anymore (I don't know, haven't read the reports myself).

    Even with the decision modules, they could have changed the style of questions and syllabus from 'memorise this algorithm and repeat it in the exam' to stuff that tested actual understanding of the algorithms - rather than cut them out completely.
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    (Original post by ClickItBack)
    I don't like the cutting out of content in general. Yes, depth is more important than breadth, but some useful material e.g. generating functions in S4 will presumably not be on the syllabus anymore (I don't know, haven't read the reports myself).

    Even with the decision modules, they could have changed the style of questions and syllabus from 'memorise this algorithm and repeat it in the exam' to stuff that tested actual understanding of the algorithms - rather than cut them out completely.
    I think that keeping the content (or indeed increasing it in the base A Levels) would be good - however the content being lost is mainly low level

    If they had kept/increased the content level and improved the question style then I think there would have been rebellion - so I agree with the direction they have chosen

    Less material, taught more effectively, and examined more rigorously is far better than keeping the content and keeping the overly structured questions

    There is a need for students to know and understand the material if they are to use it beyond the A Level - that has to be the priority regarding the re-structure

    If students wish to study more material then there is nothing to stop them
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    (Original post by ClickItBack)
    I don't like the cutting out of content in general. Yes, depth is more important than breadth, but some useful material e.g. generating functions in S4 will presumably not be on the syllabus anymore (I don't know, haven't read the reports myself).

    Even with the decision modules, they could have changed the style of questions and syllabus from 'memorise this algorithm and repeat it in the exam' to stuff that tested actual understanding of the algorithms - rather than cut them out completely.
    Well generating functions had already gone from Edexcel - they used to be in S5 which was an excellent module!

    As I was explaining in my previous posts, don't equate loss of modules with loss of content. The modular system is hugely inefficient because it causes students and teachers to waste time on the administrative and tactical issues involved in learning, revising, sitting exams, and doing post mortems on lots of lots of modules - time that could actually be spent learning more content. There really isn't any need for a "third A level" in maths - all the useful content should be covered in two A levels.

    And it really was best to put Decision Maths out of its misery. It does nothing to develop students' problem solving skills; it's a complete mish-mash of topics from different areas of maths, operational research and computing; and as the Uni admissions tutors noted, it really is seen as a soft option that doesn't teach any useful skills. You can't really deal with "understanding" of the algorithms in question because that raises questions that are actually dealt with at university - it's better to leave the relevant topics to a point where they're taught properly
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    (Original post by TenOfThem)
    I think that keeping the content (or indeed increasing it in the base A Levels) would be good - however the content being lost is mainly low level

    If they had kept/increased the content level and improved the question style then I think there would have been rebellion - so I agree with the direction they have chosen

    Less material, taught more effectively, and examined more rigorously is far better than keeping the content and keeping the overly structured questions

    There is a need for students to know and understand the material if they are to use it beyond the A Level - that has to be the priority regarding the re-structure

    If students wish to study more material then there is nothing to stop them

    (Original post by davros)
    Well generating functions had already gone from Edexcel - they used to be in S5 which was an excellent module!

    As I was explaining in my previous posts, don't equate loss of modules with loss of content. The modular system is hugely inefficient because it causes students and teachers to waste time on the administrative and tactical issues involved in learning, revising, sitting exams, and doing post mortems on lots of lots of modules - time that could actually be spent learning more content. There really isn't any need for a "third A level" in maths - all the useful content should be covered in two A levels.

    And it really was best to put Decision Maths out of its misery. It does nothing to develop students' problem solving skills; it's a complete mish-mash of topics from different areas of maths, operational research and computing; and as the Uni admissions tutors noted, it really is seen as a soft option that doesn't teach any useful skills. You can't really deal with "understanding" of the algorithms in question because that raises questions that are actually dealt with at university - it's better to leave the relevant topics to a point where they're taught properly
    Well, I'd have preferred maintaining the content whilst increasing the rigour (after all, no one is forcing weaker students to take AFM) - but if they've managed to rescue most of the content and compressed it into 12 modules I think that's not too bad.
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    If anything, it seems to be easier than it is in its current state though further maths seems much more geared towards physical sciences than pure maths.
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    I think it won't specifically influence me regardless of the fact that completely actualized, however in the event that I'm fair the course substance appears to be really comparable from a quick look. They appear to need all the more difficult, critical thinking style exam inquiries, and detail papers are to have bigger, more practical datasets. They likewise need the incorporation of engineering into all parts of the educational program and examination, whatever they mean by that. I think the main true change is misfortune of decision, which is not so much 100% terrible, simply diverse.
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    Why do all the good changes come when I'm finished?
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    (Original post by notnek)
    You both seem to be using your (Oxbridge) experience of Mechanics at Uni as the average experience for undergraduates. I went to Nottingham and the first year Mechanics was pretty simple if you'd done M1-M3 and FP1-FP3 - there was a lot of repetition. Other Unis of similar reputations have even easier courses.
    Hi, what course were you studying at Nottingham?
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    What coursework was there, I've never come across and my in both maths and FM.

    Sorry if someone had already explained, didn't want to read through again.

    Personally I like the changes, although I wish they got rid of decision earlier.
 
 
 
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