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Is there any real reason to be a vegetarian? Watch

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Clearly, you didn't watch the Mitchell and Webb sketch.

    It only makes meat more desirable to those who can afford it, to most it would be prohibitively expensive. In effect, it just adds an extra tier or set of tiers to the current system where better meats are more expensive.
    No, I didn't. Did the sketch provide a logical argument in support for killing animals in order to eat them?

    I think expensive things tend to be object of desire, where it is food, jewelry, clothes, brands, etc. Restating my point, there is no ethical reason not to be a vegetarian.
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    (Original post by Juichiro)
    No, I didn't. Did the sketch provide a logical argument in support for killing animals in order to eat them?

    I think expensive things tend to be object of desire, where it is food, jewelry, clothes, brands, etc. Restating my point, there is no ethical reason not to be a vegetarian.
    Not everyone has the same ethics or morals. I have no problem with killing animals to feed myself.
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    Not everyone has the same ethics or morals. I have no problem with killing animals to feed myself.
    Are you saying that you have no problem in displaying cannibalistic behaviour?
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    (Original post by Juichiro)
    Are you saying that you have no problem in displaying cannibalistic behaviour?
    No. Don't be silly.
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    1.There are plenty of rabbits and pigeons around the place and they are a pest to arable land, which is the vegetarian option. Both wild rabbits and pigeons are easy enough to catch with very little expertise. We already have millions of them why not use them?

    2. Insects are needed for pollination and already have a dwindling population due to some poor farming practices. We should not be using insects as food ever, they are too valuable to our entire way of life.
    1. Interesting point. But you see, we also have plenty of humans around this planet which can be a risk to continued existence of the Earth resources (air pollution, soil health, water availability, etc). We have not millions but billions of humans, so if we are cutting down on some populations we might as well be egalitarian and treat human populations they way we treat rabbit/pidgeon populations. What do you think?

    2. I was talking about insect farming.
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    No. Don't be silly.
    But you said you had no problems killing animals to feed yourself and humans are a subclass of the animal category. See why I concluded that statement about cannibalism?
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    (Original post by Juichiro)
    1. Interesting point. But you see, we also have plenty of humans around this planet which can be a risk to continued existence of the Earth resources (air pollution, soil health, water availability, etc). We have not millions but billions of humans, so if we are cutting down on some populations we might as well be egalitarian and treat human populations they way we treat rabbit/pidgeon populations. What do you think?

    2. I was talking about insect farming.
    1. Soon enough there will be a antibiotic resistant super virus, which will reduce our population, which is needed. I don't think we could possibly start culling the human population. We will wipe ourselves out long before that is needed.

    2. I think we should farm insects, but not to eat. Pollinating insects have been estimated to be worth £121 trillion to the human race. Without them we are pretty boned. We should make an effort to increase their population regardless to whether we should eat them.
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    But non-veggies contribute to the egg & dairy industry as well as the meat industry. Atleast veggies reduce the impact by not eating meat.

    I'd like to be vegan but honestly it's just SUCH a pain in the arse. But I'm not wholly doing it for ethical reasons - I just couldn't get it out my head that I was eating an animals leg/thigh/breast, etc. Just started to disgust me. Plus the health benefits of cutting out red meat are massive. I do actually practice a mainly vegan diet but there's just things I won't quit... Like pizzas.
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    (Original post by Juichiro)
    But you said you had no problems killing animals to feed yourself and humans are a subclass of the animal category. See why I concluded that statement about cannibalism?
    I can see your misunderstanding. I was referring to animals other than humans. Cannibalism isn't healthy.
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    (Original post by Juichiro)
    No, I didn't. Did the sketch provide a logical argument in support for killing animals in order to eat them?

    I think expensive things tend to be object of desire, where it is food, jewelry, clothes, brands, etc. Restating my point, there is no ethical reason not to be a vegetarian.
    No, it provided an argument as to how stupid the concept of being a vegetarian for moral reasons can be, much like through comedy they demonstrate how stupid loads of conspiracy theories are.

    (Original post by Juichiro)
    Are you saying that you have no problem in displaying cannibalistic behaviour?
    Circumstantially. In a survival situation of course I would, otherwise the reasoning for not doing so are mostly legal ones.
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    I can see your misunderstanding. I was referring to animals other than humans. Cannibalism isn't healthy.
    Why would say that cannibalism is not healthy? While I presume you believe that eating non-humans animals is healthy. Surely, cooked properly most animals can be healthy. But my stance is not about health but about ethics. What is there in your eating criteria that makes eating non-humans acceptable and eating humans unacceptable. The way I see it, given that there are no relevant differences when it comes to eating animals (whether human or non-human), why would you discriminating against non-humans?
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    1. Soon enough there will be a antibiotic resistant super virus, which will reduce our population, which is needed. I don't think we could possibly start culling the human population. We will wipe ourselves out long before that is needed.

    2. I think we should farm insects, but not to eat. Pollinating insects have been estimated to be worth £121 trillion to the human race. Without them we are pretty boned. We should make an effort to increase their population regardless to whether we should eat them.
    1. With billions of individuals it seems hard for me to think that a single virus however poweful could take down a whole species.

    2. Why do you oppose eating insects? If presumably we eat animals for nutrients that can be found in insects and farming this insects is cheaper than farming animals, what grounds are there to reject a diet with insects?
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    1. No, it provided an argument as to how stupid the concept of being a vegetarian for moral reasons can be, much like through comedy they demonstrate how stupid loads of conspiracy theories are.


    2. Circumstantially. In a survival situation of course I would, otherwise the reasoning for not doing so are mostly legal ones.
    1. Seeing that you watched it perhaps you could display the argument here in your own words. I am eager to see how the idea of not killing animals in order to eat them is stupid. I see that conspiracy theories are irrational (rather than stupid) in the sense that they are not based on rational arguments. However, it seems to me that vegetarianism has a pretty long history of rational arguments dating back to at least 18th century English ethical philosophy.

    2. When you say "the reasoning for not doing so are mostly legal ones", you mean that the only thing stopping you from committing cannibalism is the law? So if you were to be in international waters and have the opportunity to engage in canibalism, you would do it? I assume here that no nation would claim the right of universal jurisdiction thus giving you a sort of diplomatic immunity.
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    (Original post by Juichiro)
    1. Seeing that you watched it perhaps you could display the argument here in your own words. I am eager to see how the idea of not killing animals in order to eat them is stupid. I see that conspiracy theories are irrational (rather than stupid) in the sense that they are not based on rational arguments. However, it seems to me that vegetarianism has a pretty long history of rational arguments dating back to at least 18th century English ethical philosophy.
    Or why don't you go and watch it, the direct link may have been removed because there is a wude wurd in the video, but it isn't hard to find.

    2. When you say "the reasoning for not doing so are mostly legal ones", you mean that the only thing stopping you from committing cannibalism is the law? So if you were to be in international waters and have the opportunity to engage in canibalism, you would do it? I assume here that no nation would claim the right of universal jurisdiction thus giving you a sort of diplomatic immunity.
    I said mostly legal, the illegality is based upon some trivial moral objection and hence it would be foolish to commit such acts. Strictly, it's the legal element blocking it, but beyond that is the petty moral points of other people, heavily based on religion I should think.
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    (Original post by Juichiro)
    1. With billions of individuals it seems hard for me to think that a single virus however poweful could take down a whole species.

    2. Why do you oppose eating insects? If presumably we eat animals for nutrients that can be found in insects and farming this insects is cheaper than farming animals, what grounds are there to reject a diet with insects?
    We will kill ourselves somehow. A super virus may not kill the entire human population but it will reduce the size significantly.

    I have eaten insects in the past and I can't say I'm a fan. They taste horrific. I would rather spend the extra money on producing something that is edible and I can enjoy eating. Not something I gag on.
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    We will kill ourselves somehow. A super virus may not kill the entire human population but it will reduce the size significantly.

    I have eaten insects in the past and I can't say I'm a fan. They taste horrific. I would rather spend the extra money on producing something that is edible and I can enjoy eating. Not something I gag on.
    Touche.
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    (Original post by MattyR2895)
    The only real reason I can see to be a vegetarian is if you happen to dislike the taste of meat, and so you don't eat it, which I suppose technically makes you a vegetarian, but it's not on any kind of ethical grounds.
    I'm a meat eater, so obviously I have no ethical problems with killing animals to eat them, but most vegetarians do, and yet they still consume dairy and eggs? Those industries have the same implications for the animals as the meat industry. The cows that produce milk are killed after a couple of years when they are no longer able to produce the milk, usually they are turned in to meat for people to eat. Same in the egg industry, male cocks are of no use and killed.
    I have nothing against people who are ethically against the consumption of animal products, ie vegans. We just share different ethics. I just think it's hypocritical to say killing animals is wrong and then contribute to the dairy and egg industry, as most vegetarians do.
    Also any self proclaimed 'vegetarians' who still eat fish, gtfo.
    I don't like the taste of meat. That's the ONLY reason I am a vegetarian. Sure, it also gives me the licence to pat myself on the back for being "cruelty free" or whatever (though vegans would disagree), but the truth of the matter is I quit meat for purely selfish reasons. I can't eat seafood and the smell of any other meat makes me feel ill, so there isn't any reason to subject myself to eating it. I still use dairy products (though I realise that it is unethical to do so) because I am recovering from an eating disorder and I really can't afford to restrict any other food groups. I own two old leather jackets that were my father's once upon a time, but when I can I go for imitation leather because the smell of leather is kind of disgusting too.
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    What if we tried an experiment? Any of you 'meat-eaters', take a look at this, and/ or this, and then post your feelings. If you were really bored, why not post your feeling before, and after taking a look at these links? If there is any difference between the before and after sections, maybe you eat meat because you are not sufficiently informed.
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    (Original post by MattyR2895)
    The only real reason I can see to be a vegetarian is if you happen to dislike the taste of meat, and so you don't eat it, which I suppose technically makes you a vegetarian, but it's not on any kind of ethical grounds.
    I'm a meat eater, so obviously I have no ethical problems with killing animals to eat them, but most vegetarians do, and yet they still consume dairy and eggs? Those industries have the same implications for the animals as the meat industry. The cows that produce milk are killed after a couple of years when they are no longer able to produce the milk, usually they are turned in to meat for people to eat. Same in the egg industry, male cocks are of no use and killed.
    I have nothing against people who are ethically against the consumption of animal products, ie vegans. We just share different ethics. I just think it's hypocritical to say killing animals is wrong and then contribute to the dairy and egg industry, as most vegetarians do.
    Also any self proclaimed 'vegetarians' who still eat fish, gtfo.
    Okay, so...

    "Those industries have the same implications for the animals as the meat industry. The cows that produce milk are killed after a couple of years when they are no longer able to produce the milk, usually they are turned in to meat for people to eat. Same in the egg industry, male cocks are of no use and killed."

    Some vegetarians like myself choose not to eat meat because it is made in factory farms which are so incredibly inhumane it is unbearable to watch the secret footage taken from inside the factories. So consuming free-range cheese, milk and eggs isn't a problem because you're supporting ethical farming of animals, where they get a nice spot of land to live on, they aren't being pumped full of hormones to the point their legs snap off and they don't have to worry about starvation.

    "I'm a meat eater, so obviously I have no ethical problems with killing animals to eat them"
    Then buy free-range meat. I personally have no problem with people eating meat, just so long as they animal grew up in a nice environment free from the horrors of factory farming.

    A vegetarian who eats fish is actually a pescetarian, which isn't exactly helpful considering fish numbers are decreasing and their natural habitats are collapsing, we'll soon see fish like CoD and Tuna off the shelves...

    As of September (when I go to uni) I'll be giving up milk and going to soya (as it's difficult to determine what is free-range milk), plus soya milk is healthier anyway, however will keep eating free-range eggs.

    You can usually get the free-range stuff from local farm-shops, that way you know it really is free-range.

    This video will help explain my points, I'd also recommend watching more on factory farmed animals. It's not the ethics of not eating animals, it's the ethics of how we treat them, and it's not very well.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpbtBgLfl90

    There's also the environmental impact...
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    (Original post by RocketCiaranJ)
    What if we tried an experiment? Any of you 'meat-eaters', take a look at this, and/ or this, and then post your feelings. If you were really bored, why not post your feeling before, and after taking a look at these links? If there is any difference between the before and after sections, maybe you eat meat because you are not sufficiently informed.

    You are aware that PETA is an American organisation and their information is about America, which has an atrocious standard of animal welfare.

    In the UK we use farrowing crates for the first week or two of birth to protect the piglets from their mother who will accidentally stand or role on them.

    There is no difference in my feeling before or after looking at your links because I actually know about UK agriculture. I eat meat because I am sufficiently informed. What the US do is up to them. But what we do here in the UK is some of the best in the world and we are constantly improving our animal welfare standards. Working closely with animal welfare organisations such as the RSPCA we are improving the standards and giving consumers the ability to choose what sort of meat production systems they want to buy from. This is done through the use of accredited schemes such as "Freedom Food" and "Red Tractor Assurance".
 
 
 
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