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Is TSR being flooded by Israeli shills. Watch

  • View Poll Results: Is TSR being flooded by Israeli shills?
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    (Original post by Michael!)
    Hamas are an organisation existing within Israel's jurisdiction. I'm not arguing that there aren't faults on both sides. I'm merely stating that it is Israel's responsibility to ensure that the number of civilian casualties is kept at a minimum, which they appear to have absolutely no interest in.

    The conditions that Palestinians live in are atrocious and the county that is solely responsible for that is Israel. No wonder organisations like Hamas exist, otherwise nothing would ever come close to changing.
    Civilian casualties in most wars in history have been historically high, regardless of how advanced we think we are becoming. Human error is still a factor.

    Hamas was voted into power and you cannot seriously be saying Hamas will bring change for Palestine? if anything its led to more blood shed. Israel historically have offered palestine deals which it should of took, you cannot be sorry for their mistakes. If anything its religious hatred gone to new heights.

    One thing i do agree with, the current conditions in Gaza are atrocious but Israel needs to take the utilitarian view, what has it got to gain from going beyond its "basic duty of care" when its taking coffers out of Israel's budget.

    Why haven't the local arab countries which led the 1967 nationalism offered more assistance? End of the day, no country in the middle east wants to see Israel prosper. It needs to take a hard line approach.

    One state solution is out of the question and a two state solution will be a threat to Israel.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    Civilian casualties in most wars in history have been historically high, regardless of how advanced we think we are becoming. Human error is still a factor.

    Hamas was voted into power and you cannot seriously be saying Hamas will bring change for Palestine? if anything its led to more blood shed. Israel historically have offered palestine deals which it should of took, you cannot be sorry for their mistakes. If anything its religious hatred gone to new heights.

    One thing i do agree with, the current conditions in Gaza are atrocious but Israel needs to take the utilitarian view, what has it got to gain from going beyond its "basic duty of care" when its taking coffers out of Israel's budget.

    Why haven't the local arab countries which led the 1967 nationalism offered more assistance? End of the day, no country in the middle east wants to see Israel prosper. It needs to take a hard line approach.

    One state solution is out of the question and a two state solution will be a threat to Israel.
    I'm not pro Hamas, I'm pro Palestine. Thought I'd make that clear before I start to sound like I'm pro-terrorist. Hamas are clearly going about things the wrong way and hold extremist views, but they are supporting Palestine in some way shape or form. Israel give aid, but if they had no obligation to do so, they would not (if they did nothing, then the world would turn against them in my eyes). That is evident and they do not act in Palestine's best interest.

    The only resolution to the ******* is granting independence and conceding defeat. Israel will never be able to prevent hostilities unless they can arrange a mutually beneficial agreement (which is pretty much impossible). They would become a threat to Israel, but they should have the right to be a threat (in the sense that they should have a right to be a self-governed entity). There will never be peace because Israel deny them that right.
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    (Original post by Michael!)
    I'm not pro Hamas, I'm pro Palestine. Thought I'd make that clear before I start to sound like I'm pro-terrorist. Hamas are clearly going about things the wrong way and hold extremist views, but they are supporting Palestine in some way shape or form. Israel give aid, but if they had no obligation to do so, they would not (if they did nothing, then the world would turn against them in my eyes). That is evident and they do not act in Palestine's best interest.

    The only resolution to the ******* is granting independence and conceding defeat. Israel will never be able to prevent hostilities unless they can arrange a mutually beneficial agreement (which is pretty much impossible). They would become a threat to Israel, but they should have the right to be a threat (in the sense that they should have a right to be a self-governed entity). There will never be peace because Israel deny them that right.
    I totally disagree, this isnt a game either or something to be messed around with. "Palestine" has shown it cannot vote in a stable government, imagine a terrorist organisation like Hamas with serious weapons? It could lead to a world war.

    I dont really get the point about hamas being pro palestine, all the parties were pro palestine. You don't need to be a terrorist to be a nationalist. I don't see Israel giving up much in any agreement and rightly so. If the arab nations had succeeded in 1967, Israel would cease to exist.

    Arab countries close by need to step up their efforts in aiding the refugee's. Personally i am just as alarmed by ISIS in Iraq and their mentality and how this will unfold in the next few years or so.
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    (Original post by Amphiprion)
    Hands up I don't even know what a shill is.
    Ah well: "A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with the person or organization."

    Israel trains students in some basic propaganda techniques and pays them or offers them grants and scholarships to go onto social media and attempt to sell the murder of civilians to the rest of the world or simply derail any unhelpful discussions on the topic. This is mainly on Facebook, Youtube and Twitter but also forums, so TSR may be a target. Much of the propoganda coming from these shills and techniques used are evident all over TSR, this may of course just be normal unpaid, untrained pro Israelis parroting what they've read elsewhere, but it seems most here believe much of it to be coming directly from Israeli funded shills.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news...where-23695896

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasbara_Fellowships

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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    ....

    (Original post by Michael!)
    .......

    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    ...........
    Come on you guys, stay on topic.:stomp:
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    (Original post by n00)
    Come on you guys, stay on topic.:stomp:
    The topic is a stupid one for two reasons:

    1) TSR is not going to be high on anyone's target list for changing public opinion. If Israel were seriously paying money for propaganda then you'd expect them to target sites like the BBC, Guardian and other major news services. Not some random student website.

    2) Looking at the threads being started on TSR recently it is clear that there are far more anti-Israel threads and posts than the other way around.

    If you want my true opinion I think that the notion behind your question is symptomatic of a cognitive dissonance. It seems similar to how people feel it necessary to believe in some massive pro-Israel conspiracy to explain why the media is not reporting what they think is the reality. It is just too difficult for them to maintain their beliefs about Israel whilst being presented with blatantly different evidence in all media. Therefore they reconcile this with the crazy belief of a massive conspiracy. To me this seems similar. As a way of reconciling the strong and passionate defence of Israel by ordinary people with your firm belief that Israel is evil and despised by all, you posit that those defences are not real.

    Or possibly you just want a cheap way to try and discredit all pro-Israel posters. Either way, the thread is stupid.
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    The topic is a stupid one for two reasons:

    1) TSR is not going to be high on anyone's target list for changing public opinion. If Israel were seriously paying money for propaganda then you'd expect them to target sites like the BBC, Guardian and other major news services. Not some random student website.

    2) Looking at the threads being started on TSR recently it is clear that there are far more anti-Israel threads and posts than the other way around.

    If you want my true opinion I think that the notion behind your question is symptomatic of a cognitive dissonance. It seems similar to how people feel it necessary to believe in some massive pro-Israel conspiracy to explain why the media is not reporting what they think is the reality. It is just too difficult for them to maintain their beliefs about Israel whilst being presented with blatantly different evidence in all media. Therefore they reconcile this with the crazy belief of a massive conspiracy. To me this seems similar. As a way of reconciling the strong and passionate defence of Israel by ordinary people with your firm belief that Israel is evil and despised by all, you posit that those defences are not real.

    Or possibly you just want a cheap way to try and discredit all pro-Israel posters. Either way, the thread is stupid.
    Well now, that is one hell of a good post,

    A real nail on head explanation there.

    Sadly I'm out of reps for the day, so have a cool smiley instead :cool:
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    The topic is a stupid one for two reasons:

    1) TSR is not going to be high on anyone's target list for changing public opinion. If Israel were seriously paying money for propaganda then you'd expect them to target sites like the BBC, Guardian and other major news services. Not some random student website.
    Well the majority here seems to disagree and with good reason. TSR actually returns on the first page of google for quite a number of search terms and boasts of having 3 million registered users and 6.3 million unique vistitors per month. That may still be too small to bother with, but to dismiss the topic as stupid given what we know and how little effort it would take seems a little..... stupid.


    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    2) Looking at the threads being started on TSR recently it is clear that there are far more anti-Israel threads and posts than the other way around.
    That maybe the case but how on earth is that evidence that we don't attract Israeli shills?

    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    If you want my true opinion I think that the notion behind your question is symptomatic of a cognitive dissonance. It seems similar to how people feel it necessary to believe in some massive pro-Israel conspiracy to explain why the media is not reporting what they think is the reality. It is just too difficult for them to maintain their beliefs about Israel whilst being presented with blatantly different evidence in all media. Therefore they reconcile this with the crazy belief of a massive conspiracy. To me this seems similar. As a way of reconciling the strong and passionate defence of Israel by ordinary people with your firm belief that Israel is evil and despised by all, you posit that those defences are not real.
    :yawn: It's not some crazy conspiracy theory, Israel pay for social media propagandists, the only question is to what level they take it.

    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    Or possibly you just want a cheap way to try and discredit all pro-Israel posters. Either way, the thread is stupid.
    I'm not too keen on either side, I just find all the propaganda vile. But is it not Israel that are discrediting all pro-Israel posters by paying for propagandists to post all over social media?
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    (Original post by Pinzgauer)
    Well now, that is one hell of a good post,

    A real nail on head explanation there.

    Sadly I'm out of reps for the day, so have a cool smiley instead :cool:
    You're a perfect example. Signed up 4 days ago and in your 62 post haven't posted anything other than Israeli propaganda.
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    (Original post by n00)
    Well the majority here seems to disagree and with good reason. TSR actually returns on the first page of google for quite a number of search terms and boasts of having 3 million registered users and 6.3 million unique vistitors per month. That may still be too small to bother with, but to dismiss the topic as stupid given what we know and how little effort it would take seems a little..... stupid.

    That maybe the case but how on earth is that evidence that we don't attract Israeli shills?

    :yawn: It's not some crazy conspiracy theory, Israel pay for social media propagandists, the only question is to what level they take it.

    I'm not too keen on either side, I just find all the propaganda vile. But is it not Israel that are discrediting all pro-Israel posters by paying for propagandists to post all over social media?
    TSR may have lots of users but hardly any come to the discussion forums. So I feel confident in dismissing the notion that Israel would target TSR. And if they did you'd expect more pro-Israel threads being started, more people posting here. If you look at the users who are posting on this topic the ones that support Israel seem to come from long-term users whereas the ones bashing Israel often come from new users. Can you identify a number of new users who post exclusively pro-Israel posts?

    I didn't say its a conspiracy that Israel has a social media programme. I said that believing that the pro-Israel posters here are fake seems to share a common theme with the conspiracy of pro-Israel media bias.
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    Can you identify a number of new users who post exclusively pro-Israel posts?
    Sure, but it's against the rules. I'm already on a yellow for doing so.
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    Most students are naive, left wing, and powerless anyway. By the time they grow up they'll realise Israel have little choice and be far less pro Palestine. Little point in PM targeting a low value demographic.
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    (Original post by n00)
    Sure, but it's against the rules. I'm already on a yellow for doing so.
    It's against the rules for saying how long ago a user registered? Isn't that visible by everyone?
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    It's against the rules for saying how long ago a user registered? Isn't that visible by everyone?
    Talking about moderation issues is also against the rules i'm afraid.
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    (Original post by n00)
    Talking about moderation issues is also against the rules i'm afraid.
    I wouldn't have thought that was a moderation issue. You just hover your mouse over the username and it tells you when they registered. Oh well...
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    Maybe there's more pro Israel posts because more people are seeing the truths about Hamas, or more people are willing to defend and spread their own opinion? Is anything pro Israel nowadays branded propaganda or false no matter what is actually said???
    And before you start on me, Im pro Israel and pro Gaza. By removing Hamas maybe the aid Gaza receives can actually be directed into infrastructure and health etc, maybe less civilians will die as human shields, and maybe less will have their own house or hospital destroyed by one of Hamas' own rockets.
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    (Original post by Hattie0912)
    Maybe there's more pro Israel posts because more people are seeing the truths about Hamas, or more people are willing to defend and spread their own opinion?
    I'm not saying that isn't the case, it almost certainly is. Clearly not all pro Israel posts come from shills, but Israel pay for social media propagandists and some pro Israel posts may come from paid propagandists.


    (Original post by Hattie0912)
    Is anything pro Israel nowadays branded propaganda or false no matter what is actually said???
    Its a problem of Israels own making.
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    Can you identify a number of new users who post exclusively pro-Israel posts?
    There's this Pinzer chap who started a couple of days ago.
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    There's this Pinzer chap who started a couple of days ago.
    One swallow doesn't make a spring. I've no doubt that there have been plenty of anti-Israel people who have recently signed up too. It's the nature of the topic that people feel passionate and so find outlets. TSR is just one of those.
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    One swallow doesn't make a spring. I've no doubt that there have been plenty of anti-Israel people who have recently signed up too. It's the nature of the topic that people feel passionate and so find outlets. TSR is just one of those.
    One notable feature which distinguishes those "pure hasbara's" from those who simply wish to put across their viewpoint is their reluctance to engage in debates/discussion and put forward their own viewpoints without resorting to the ubiquitous and cliched arguments that they have been prattling on for donkey years.

    There are uses like Pinzer and Chindits and Meenglishisnogood (he is probably just an Islam basher) who dismiss the opposing viewpoint and instead resort to hyperbole, tantrum throwing (HAMAS uses human shields, HAMAS started the conflict, Israel is the most democratic state etc etc) and if that doesn't work, they engage in "whataboutery" (as does the Israeli cabinet on numerous occasions) thinking it absolves Israeli actions.

    Then there are users like you, who are pro-Israeli (I presume?) but are willing to engage in debate and discussion.

    The way I see it and I believe it is a fair conclusion as I'm sure many others do, is that those who simply regurgitate the same information over and over again without taking into consideration the opposing arguments are propagandists.

    It is one thing to spout out information and an altogether different concept to defend that position.
 
 
 
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