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Sharp rise in halal abattoirs slaughtering animals without stunning them first. Watch

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    eventually stunning will be banned as it causes more pain to the animal, and produces meat that is less healthy for the consumer.

    also, why are people so bloody against halal slaughter. What do you think matters more- the conditions that the animal has been brought up in for years, or the pain they experience in the last 10 seconds of their life?

    it's just away for islamophobes to do their thing with no risk of them being done for 'racism' etc.
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    (Original post by h3isenberg)
    You seem to not understand the terms that are being used and it'd be wise to learn what they do mean...

    Electrocuting ≠ Stunning. They are very different (and quite obviously so).
    actually, you're wrong.

    stunning is a blanket term which covers captive bolt stunning (which is what you're thinking of) and electrical stunning (which is what ahmad is thinking of)
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    (Original post by DaveSmith99)
    The issue is that society has (much to my dismay) decided that it wants to eat meat, we've recognised that this results in suffering to the animals so we're come up with a set of rules in order to reduce the needless suffering of said animals. We've now thrown these rules in the bin because certain groups of people want to emulate how things were done in 7th century Arabia. Times have moved on, we have the ability to reduce suffering and the efforts of people to introduce even more suffering into an industry already rife with suffering must be opposed.
    Nature does not not intend an animal (includes humans) to care about the pain its prey goes through just before it is consumed. Crocodiles kill their prey viciously without thought of the pain the prey goes through. Lions will kill their prey and do not give a damn about the pain the prey goes through. Why don't you prevent those sufferings, I mean, shouldn't every animal in the world get stunned before death to be fair? There are countless examples of animals suffering and why? Because its nature and we need to accept it. We need to kill to survive. Plants and animals are killed by other animals all the time. Humans have found less painful alternatives but to start whining over the fact that its not less painful enough is irrelevant to our survival. Stunning takes takes more resources, more time, more effort, more money. Nature does not expect us to care. There are humans getting slaughtered by other humans in ways that you cannot tolerate. Is it important for humans to care about something as small as no-stunning on something that is not human?
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    (Original post by ahmads96)
    There is nothing in that whole report that proves that electrocuting is more hygienic or less painful for the animal. It simply states that the animal is conscious for longer which frankly doesn't prove anything.
    Did you even read it? It references multiple scientific studies. The only scientific evidence supporting your postition is a single study undertaken about 30 years ago that admits in its own conclusion that a faulty stun gun had been used. So once again, if you think science is on your side then you have been lied to.
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    (Original post by Marco1)
    Perhaps we should just ban all Halal and Kosher meat from the UK? Personally I think it makes no sense to appease and tolerate religious ritual slaughtering methods in a country as humane and advanced as Britain.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/reli...hem-first.html

    As far as I know SubWay in the UK is now all Halal. Many UK hospitals now serve only Halal slaughtered meat in their visitors restaurants. How can Britain be so Halal when the vast majority of it's citizens are purportedly non-Muslim? Aggressive bullish campaigning I gather. It appears they don't care a damn for what British non-Muslims prefer to eat, as long as their wants are met. The situation speaks for itself and it's about time British non-Muslims grew a backbone and stuck up for their human rights too. I'm all for soundly reasoned improvement and change but Britain seems to be sliding all too easily into a dystopian alternate reality, becoming increasingly disconnected from itself.
    Yawn. Most animals have a poor quality of life before they are slaughtered. If you truly cared about animals and their welfare, you would go vegan. All animals suffer pain regardless of the killing method, If I stunned you with electric shocks would feel some pain. But then on the other hand, getting your throat like jeeze, thats brutality of a ISIS standard. But still if you truly cared about animals being pain and suffering , you would go vegan.
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    (Original post by Raymat)
    Nature does not not intend an animal (includes humans) to care about the pain its prey goes through just before it is consumed. Crocodiles kill their prey viciously without thought of the pain the prey goes through. Lions will kill their prey and do not give a damn about the pain the prey goes through. Why don't you prevent those sufferings, I mean, shouldn't every animal in the world get stunned before death to be fair? There are countless examples of animals suffering and why? Because its nature and we need to accept it. We need to kill to survive. Plants and animals are killed by other animals all the time. Humans have found less painful alternatives but to start whining over that fact that its not less painful enough is irrelevant to our survival. Stunning takes takes more resources, more time, more effort, more money. Nature does not expect us to care. There are humans getting slaughtered by other humans in ways that you cannot tolerate. Is it important to humans to care about something as small as no-stunning on something that is not human?
    Nothing about modern society is natural. Something being natural or not is amoral, it says nothing about rights and wrongs. We have the ability to think and reason and where neccessary we can go against what is natural. It's natural in a great many species for mothers to reject a weak offspring, does that mean we should throw children who are born underweight in the gutter? It's natural after all.
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    (Original post by h3isenberg)
    You seem to not understand the terms that are being used and it'd be wise to learn what they do mean...

    Electrocuting ≠ Stunning. They are very different (and quite obviously so).
    They both make the animal unconscious before slaughter. Apparently this doesn't allow the animal to feel pain, when in reality all it does paralyse the animal so it can not move.

    it is impossible to know whether the animal is feeling pain or not




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    (Original post by ahmads96)

    They both make the animal unconscious before slaughter. Apparently this doesn't allow the animal to feel pain, when in reality all it does paralyse the animal so it can not move.
    Erm can you substantiate that point pls?

    it is impossible to know whether the animal is feeling pain or not
    No, it's very possible. Just use electrocardiograms to monitor electrical pain signals to the brain.
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    (Original post by Raymat)
    Nature does not not intend an animal (includes humans) to care about the pain its prey goes through
    Well clearly this is false, provably so.

    I care, as do many others. We are natural things, are we not.

    Nature is not a sentient being, you know this, right ? It doesn't have intentions.
    You could argue that our empathy extending to other creatures of this earth isn't a beneficiary trait to further adapt or act on........but it's inconsequential.

    In this free, tolerant and modern first world society we live in. WE are empathetic to them, if you don't like it then there are plenty of other countries you can go live in that share your sentiment.

    I can also assume no one will lament your leaving, please, take some friends with you.
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    (Original post by h3isenberg)
    Erm can you substantiate that point pls?



    No, it's very possible. Just use electrocardiograms to monitor electrical pain signals to the brain.
    I think that you would know yourself that electrocardiograms aren't the most accurate devices. And it is not as simple as just monitoring pain signals.
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    (Original post by DaveSmith99)
    Nothing about modern society is natural. Something being natural or not is amoral, it says nothing about rights and wrongs. We have the ability to think and reason and where neccessary we can go against what is natural. It's natural in a great many species for mothers to reject a weak offspring, does that mean we should throw children who are born underweight in the gutter? It's natural after all.
    If you people care so much about animal welfare then why don't you prevent suffering for all animals on Earth to show fairness? Or is this only exclusive to animals raised on farms?
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    (Original post by hukdealz)
    eventually stunning will be banned as it causes more pain to the animal
    Hahaha... oh ait you're serious? Yeah, no. Getting knocked out instantly by a bolt gun is inarguably less painful than bleeding out while awake over the course of 20 seconds..
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    (Original post by Raymat)
    If you people care so much about animal welfare then why don't you prevent suffering for all animals on Earth to show fairness? Or is this only exclusive to animals raised on farms?
    Because that's not possible but repealing the religious exemptions to slaughter is?
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    (Original post by h3isenberg)
    Erm can you substantiate that point pls?



    No, it's very possible. Just use electrocardiograms to monitor electrical pain signals to the brain.
    I noticed that you used to be a muslim. What caused you to leave the religion?
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    (Original post by JohnCrichton89)
    Well clearly this is false, provably so.

    I care, as do many others. We are natural things, are we not.

    Nature is not a sentient being, you know this, right ? It doesn't have intentions.
    You could argue that our empathy extending to other creatures of this earth isn't a beneficiary trait to further adapt or act on........but it's inconsequential.

    In this free, tolerant and modern first world society we live in. WE are empathetic to them, if you don't like it then there are plenty of other countries you can go live in that share your sentiment.

    I can also assume no one will lament your leaving, please, take some friends with you.
    Show true empathy by not killing them, or else any form of slaughter is cruel. Be satisfied that the Islamic method of slaughter exists, there would have been worse methods to kill. Death is death. Just because humans have become more intelligent doesn't mean we need to impose our new ideas on others. they don't have to accept it if they don't want to. Some won't because it will involve more effort, more time, more money, more resources. There are humans being slaughtered more worse than cows and this is all done by other humans. There are humans killed without stunning but no one says anything about that. We don't care, because we need to prioritise animals over humans don't we. Why don't you people leave and stop bothering others. The average human has to put up with a lot of things and is stressed enough.
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    (Original post by Raymat)
    S Why don't you people leave and stop bothering others.
    Yeah, that's rich. Right back at ya, like I said, take some friends with you.

    I agree we need to prioritise, people are dying all over the world in horrendous conditions. Islam is perhaps the main cause of much of the suffering in the world today, and its being spread all over Europe now.

    Notice how the terrorism and suffering has followed Muslims everywhere they go. There is no societal construct in the world with a Muslim demographic that doesn't suffer these problems of terrorism and mass rape gangs targeting non-Muslim.

    And you have the gaul to say we should spend our tax money torturing animals because they (Muslims) now live in welfare societies in Europe and cant afford to do it themselves.............
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    (Original post by JohnCrichton89)
    Yeah, that's rich. Right back at ya, like I said, take some friends with you.

    I agree we need to prioritise, people are dying all over the world in horrendous conditions. Islam is perhaps the main cause of much of the suffering in the world today, and its being spread all over Europe now.

    Notice how the terrorism and suffering has followed Muslims everywhere they go. There is no societal construct in the world with a Muslim demographic that doesn't suffer these problems of terrorism and mass rape gangs targeting non-Muslim.

    And you have the gaul to say we should spend our tax money torturing animals because they (Muslims) now live in welfare societies in Europe and cant afford to do it themselves.............
    Yeh and you are oblivious to realise how much Muslims are suffering from the injustice done by the western world. Muslims might carry out acts of terror but they do it out of hurt, anger, sorrow and revenge. Our bad actions are induced by people like you. The western world has done acts of terror within the past millennium only out of pure evil, greed and power. So many nations, civilisations and ethnic groups have suffered as a consequence. The real troublemakers in this world are people like you and you have spread havoc everywhere in the past from Crusades, Slave trade, colonisation around the world from Africa to Asia, invasion of the Americas hence wiping out many cultures and civilisations, WWI, WWII, Holocuast, introducing Jews into Palestine, War on Vietnam all the way to the War on Iraq and Afghanistan. None were initiated by Muslims and then you accuse Muslims of terror when the the western world has committed terror on a much higher magnitude. The world should be rid of people like you, God will not have any sorrow for you leaving this world.
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    (Original post by h3isenberg)
    Consider a hypothetical:

    If you knew a family member (let's say your mother) was doing to die, would you rather it would be a quick death while unconscious, or, being consciously torn limb from limb until she bled out?
    A tad over-dramatic don't you think?

    1) You're comparing animals to humans
    2) You're using family members in your hypothetical
    3) Neither Halal nor Kosher methods of slaughter tear animals limb from limb while they're conscious and let them bleed out

    A more realistic hypothetical would be would you rather be killed immediately by having your throat slit swiftly and precisely - losing consciousness within seconds due to the rapid loss of blood and massive reduction in blood pressure or would you rather be stunned before being killed using a variety of stunning techniques, such as;

    1) Having an electrical current passed through your brain via large tongs placed on your head
    2) Having a metal bolt shot directly in to your brain with a gun
    3) Being gassed until you lose consciousness

    Be honest
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    Offering my point of view as a Muslim:

    The whole point -as some has pointed out- is less suffer for the animal and more quality of the meat.
    The whole Dhabiha (slaughtering) process relies on the loss of blood flow to the brain causing to unconscious state of mind (roughly 3 secs) which eventually leads to complete unconsciousness due to the lack of blood flow to the neurons of the brain. Positioning of the animal should be in opposite of the gravity, so when the slaughter cuts through the jugular arteries and the carotid, a roughly 20% of the body's blood amount(which normally and constantly circulates to the brain) is no longer a supply for brain activity and neuronal sensitivity. In addition, the windpipe and the esophagus will also be cut through in order to block the supply of oxygen, which quickens the process of going into unconsciousness, and the possibility of passing foods which might poison or lead to any detrimental chemical reaction since food is broken into its main components ( or elements) which are more susceptible to react with other elements,let alone having some radical elements in there which could be highly toxic. Leaving the spinal cord intact ( which at this point, will cause no neural sensitivity to the brain and thus feeling pain) will help the muscles (which will still be functional number of minutes after the slaughter) flex and thus, pumping the blood out ( which becomes at certain point the best type of colonies for the reproduction of bacteria and might lead to toxicity).
    I read an article of Prof.Dr. Wilhem Schulze of Leibniz Universität Hannover (Yes I speak German ) that the Islamic way of slaughtering offers less pain for the livestock during the slaughter( I am aware of the claims that he questioned his position). Another study, which maybe helps people here in case they are really "in it for the animal welfare", done by Rebecca Smith from Vegetarians International Voice for Animals a.k.a VIVA.

    I'd like to point out that in case there was a proven and a better way of slaughtering the animal causing less pain through losing consciousness and neural sensitivity faster, it is welcomed by Muslim scholars (u'lamaa).
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    (Original post by moonfacebear)
    I personally believe that having a religious exemption for something society has deemed unethical isn't acceptable and the academics have shown it causes additional suffering for some animals, for those reasons alone I think it should be banned. However I do agree with you that the general meat eater who is passionately anti halal is in complete denial about standard slaughter and think if they use the word 'humane' enough to describe it then it must be so.

    For those people I'd invite them to watch this footage filmed undercover in 8 randomly selected uk abattoirs (none religious) - it's obviously contains scenes of animal slaughter so viewer discretion is advised - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TFdHAnpTYI . It clearly shows the worst but malpractice in abattoirs in my experience is not unusual. Notice how stunning equipment is actually often used as a weapon against animals. There are a lot of problems in the farming/slaughter industry and religious slaughter is only a part of it.
    My point precisely.
 
 
 
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