fuuji
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#101
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#101
(Original post by VannR)
I have already done Maths and FM last year, doing all of the stats modules. The immediate frontier for me lies in truly understanding linear algebra, partial differentiation and going beyond a 'first course' understanding of stats.

Also, I would like to say that I am aware that everything I have studied is essentially 'analysis', and that some people don't even regard it as mathematics proper. Having looked at some of the 'real' Maths, if you'll excuse the pun, I know that I can do it.

But yes, thank you for clearing up the importance of research in quantitative analysis. I'm actually quite pleased about the prospect .
If you'd like a textbook for really understanding linear algebra "linear algebra done right" is a very good book, very well regarded by people who care about understanding maths. I hate it, didn't help with my exams in anyway. Casella berger statistical inference is a great statistics book. Am slightly dubious you studied real analysis at A level as well.

As poohat has said you might be typecast into a quant developer, which is a bit ****, but there are inevitably people with Phds in compsci who work in quant trading.

https://www.rentec.com/Jobs.action?research=true

renaissance technology the top quant HF seems to be ok with them.
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samba
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#102
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#102
(Original post by poohat)
I don't believe that, not in banks. IT doesnt get much bonus afaik and they are on roughly the same salaries as everyone else. A 5 year associate salary is around £60-80k, I don't believe IT people are getting £20k+ bonus.

Also getting into the £100-200k range is 'easy' in finance, the problem is that tech doesnt have much upside and moving above that range is very hard
Nah, not in finance. Which is why I said tech as opposed to IT. I think if you're actually interested in tech, you're best off with a tech company or something. You'd be wasted in a bank. Google for example pays 110k + 60 in shares (much of it untaxable) in the 3rd year or so. Pretty sure other tech companies pay similar, and the big market makers/prop traders are equally if not more competitive.
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Brubeckian
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#103
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#103
(Original post by samba)
Nah, not in finance. Which is why I said tech as opposed to IT. I think if you're actually interested in tech, you're best off with a tech company or something. You'd be wasted in a bank. Google for example pays 110k + 60 in shares (much of it untaxable) in the 3rd year or so. Pretty sure other tech companies pay similar, and the big market makers/prop traders are equally if not more competitive.

Forgive my stupidity but what do you mean 'working for a tech company', what sort of employee would reach 110k+ in 3 years? I quickly searched the average salary for Google engineers and it's about 54k in London, not trying to discredit you but I'm just wondering which specific jobs would net you that salary.
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Commercial Paper
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#104
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#104
(Original post by VannR)
So much IB talk on this forum, but why so little discussion of quantitative analysis? Is it because it requires a great deal more mathematical/computational skills than IB, making IB seem like an 'easier' option? I'm just curious because quants receive very good salaries as well, but no one seems to speak about wanting to be one.
Personally, I look at quants and just think "that's too difficult/not enough variety for me" and don't give it any thought after that.

I think most people don't know it exists a lot of the time, and it's quite niche really. You don't hear a lot about it at networking events etc.

And I think I'm right in thinking you have to be extremely qualified (PhD) level to work in it anyway? That's probably another reason.

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poohat
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#105
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#105
(Original post by samba)
Nah, not in finance. Which is why I said tech as opposed to IT. I think if you're actually interested in tech, you're best off with a tech company or something. You'd be wasted in a bank. Google for example pays 110k + 60 in shares (much of it untaxable) in the 3rd year or so. Pretty sure other tech companies pay similar, and the big market makers/prop traders are equally if not more competitive.
these are American salaries, tech in tthe UK is nowhere near as well paid. Silicon valley starts undergrads in $100-120k, you won't get more than £35k in the UK
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poohat
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#106
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#106
(Original post by fuuji)
If you'd like a textbook for really understanding linear algebra "linear algebra done right" is a very good book, very well regarded by people who care about understanding maths. I hate it, didn't help with my exams in anyway. Casella berger statistical inference is a great statistics book. Am slightly dubious you studied real analysis at A level as well.

As poohat has said you might be typecast into a quant developer, which is a bit ****, but there are inevitably people with Phds in compsci who work in quant trading.

https://www.rentec.com/Jobs.action?research=true

renaissance technology the top quant HF seems to be ok with them.
A PhD in machine learning is not comparable to an undergrad degree in CS. Sure, ML PhDs have great prospects in algotrading
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samba
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#107
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#107
(Original post by Brubeckian)
Forgive my stupidity but what do you mean 'working for a tech company', what sort of employee would reach 110k+ in 3 years? I quickly searched the average salary for Google engineers and it's about 54k in London, not trying to discredit you but I'm just wondering which specific jobs would net you that salary.

(Original post by poohat)
these are American salaries, tech in tthe UK is nowhere near as well paid. Silicon valley starts undergrads in $100-120k, you won't get more than £35k in the UK
As a new hire yes, but as an experienced hire, as long as you have an offer from Amazon or similar they'll beat it. To be honest I don't know too many google UK employees, but of the two I do know, my sisters bf moved here from Canada's amazon branch and they beat the Amazon offer significantly. The other dude I know moved from Microsoft, and again they beat the offer significantly. It may be lower if you don't have another offer or something.

35k is ridiculous though. I don't know anybody in tech who gets paid anywhere near as low as that. That's an IT salary.
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fuuji
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#108
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#108
(Original post by poohat)
A PhD in machine learning is not comparable to an undergrad degree in CS. Sure, ML PhDs have great prospects in algotrading
I never wrote a PhD in ML is comparable to an undergrad in CS. An undergrad in CS from RHUL wouldn't get him anything.
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Princepieman
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#109
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#109
(Original post by poohat)
these are American salaries, tech in tthe UK is nowhere near as well paid. Silicon valley starts undergrads in $100-120k, you won't get more than £35k in the UK
Not for top tech firms mate..

Google, Facebook, LinkedIn will be closer to the £50-60k mark (all in) for grads.

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Princepieman
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#110
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#110
(Original post by samba)
As a new hire yes, but as an experienced hire, as long as you have an offer from Amazon or similar they'll beat it. To be honest I don't know too many google UK employees, but of the two I do know, my sisters bf moved here from Canada's amazon branch and they beat the Amazon offer significantly. The other dude I know moved from Microsoft, and again they beat the offer significantly. It may be lower if you don't have another offer or something.

35k is ridiculous though. I don't know anybody in tech who gets paid anywhere near as low as that. That's an IT salary.
So true! A lot of people don't realise that tech at a good tech company is like another world from IT. If you're smart and go for the VC funded startups (or make your own) you can get some serious cash.

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SarcasticMel
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#111
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#111
Why are you talking about CS and PhD in physics etc. in a thread about investment bankers - those are not quants. Or is this about investment banks in general and not investment bankers?


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samba
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#112
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#112
(Original post by Princepieman)
So true! A lot of people don't realise that tech at a good tech company is like another world from IT. If you're smart and go for the VC funded startups (or make your own) you can get some serious cash.

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Working for a startup is often hell other than the equity though It's like...finance hours in a tech world without all the cool perks. And then if it all goes to **** you're off looking for a new job! Best off going to Silicon Wadi or something if you want seeded yourself. This country treats tech so poorly.

Dislike how people think IT is tech and vice versa though. They are two entirely different industries.
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Princepieman
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#113
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#113
(Original post by SarcasticMel)
Why are you talking about CS and PhD in physics etc. in a thread about investment bankers - those are not quants. Or is this about investment banks in general and not investment bankers?


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Quants tend to have PhDs in very mathematical subjects - it's relevant.

I believe the discussion has morphed into a more general finance one and other means of becoming wealthy.
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SarcasticMel
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#114
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#114
(Original post by Princepieman)
Quants tend to have PhDs in very mathematical subjects - it's relevant.

I believe the discussion has morphed into a more general finance one and other means of becoming wealthy.
It's relevant to quants, but I thought we are talking about investment bankers (thread title). They may work at an IB but surely aren't Investment bankers as such, hence why they are called quants.


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Astronomical
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#115
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#115
(Original post by Brubeckian)
This may be a daft question but is Imperial considered good for breaking into quant/trading?
Are you coming to Imperial? If so then get ready for the army of bank HR teams coming to campus every other day of first term to try and buy your soul.

FWIW, our finance society went from being out-of-this-world two years ago, to ok last year, to dreadful this year. If you are coming to Imperial, then it could certainly do with a kick up the bum, so make that your ambition for your second year and I'm sure the banks will be throwing offers at you. That's usually how it goes (probably not this year though – I certainly hope it didnt!).
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thecrazycanes
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#116
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#116
The amount of banking trade between London and Frankfurt will make your German invaluable for certain employers so definitely keep that up and consider doing your degree with German. Being bilingual is hugely underrated for trading jobs like banking and is why there are so many foreigners working in those jobs here in London. They would rather employ you if your German is good enough than import a German worker. Just keep up the good grades, get a good degree and keep your eyes peeled for any internships running. Be prepared to market yourself and, as cliched as it sounds, stand out from the crowd.
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Brubeckian
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#117
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#117
(Original post by Astronomical)
Are you coming to Imperial? If so then get ready for the army of bank HR teams coming to campus every other day of first term to try and buy your soul.

FWIW, our finance society went from being out-of-this-world two years ago, to ok last year, to dreadful this year. If you are coming to Imperial, then it could certainly do with a kick up the bum, so make that your ambition for your second year and I'm sure the banks will be throwing offers at you. That's usually how it goes (probably not this year though – I certainly hope it didnt!).

On my way! Just need to get a 1 in step 2...
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iPixelBlue
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#118
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#118
(Original post by VannR)
So much IB talk on this forum, but why so little discussion of quantitative analysis? Is it because it requires a great deal more mathematical/computational skills than IB, making IB seem like an 'easier' option? I'm just curious because quants receive very good salaries as well, but no one seems to speak about wanting to be one.
Yep I am planning on going into Quant as soon as I graduate from Imperial maths. (still some time to go )
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Noble.
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#119
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#119
(Original post by VannR)
Would you say that only graduates from top places have a chance? I'm studying computer science at RHUL from the autumn, but I am also continuing my study of mathematics beyond my current 'Further Maths' level of understanding (partial differentiation, linear algebra, theoretical statistics), so that I can hopefully get onto a good masters course in the field.

I guess I am asking whether you think that if I get a BSc at RHUL, and a MSc at a higher-ranked place (possibly Oxford), if I would have a realistic chance of getting into an 'algorithmic trading' position. I'm hoping that quant recruitment focuses a little more on skills and ability than having studied XYZ, just so long as it was at a good university, as is the case for IB.
Yes, it is more focused on skills but, pointing out the obvious, there's generally going to be a big difference in how good maths students at COWI are vs. other universities. That said, unless you just want to be essentially a programmer, you're going to need a PhD (particularly coming from RHUL) for the more interesting Quant/Strat (FO) roles. I recently got to the final round with an IB to be a Quant Strat (within credit trading) and all four people who interviewed me in the final round asked me why they should take me on without a PhD when everyone else on their desk has one - they were also massively interested to know what I've been taught so far, what options I take etc. and the reality is if the level/depth of mathematical education they're used to is Oxbridge/Warwick/Imperial, you would potentially struggle to impress with RHUL's undergraduate course (so while investment banking in general care a lot about university prestige, the impression I got throughout the Strat recruitment process was they care a lot about how good your mathematics department is).

I would say that it's difficult to know what you want to do within finance before starting university. To be a quant you have to be very good - and you're not going to know that at this point (and by very good, I mean good by COWI standards). Before I started university I thought I wanted to be a Quant, that very quickly changed to trading. Most Quant roles aren't that interesting, generally require a higher level of education than trading, but don't pay as much. I think the only entry Quant role that seems interesting is Strating, sat on a trading desk - but the only two IBs that operate like that are GS and MS, and these roles are very difficult to land out of undergrad (even at Oxbridge) and only form a small section of the Quant departments at GS/MS (most people are in the more middle-office modelling).
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gr8wizard10
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#120
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#120
(Original post by iPixelBlue)
Yep I am planning on going into Quant as soon as I graduate from Imperial maths. (still some time to go )
you an undergrad?

Quant positions are for PhD students, these guys are smart af.. not undergrad smart but really ****in smart to the extent i can hands down say will never be able to compete in my entire life, coming from a guy who has been made an offer for a summer in a strat derivatives structuring type fo role.
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