This discussion is closed.
Fizzel
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#101
Report 4 years ago
#101
(Original post by Anonymous)
The next thing I know I'm waking up with a guy who tells me we had sex, tells me i was sick in a taxi, sick on myself, he showered me and then put me to bed.. and then we had sex..
You were raped. If you weren't capable of showering yourself you weren't in a fit state to consent.
0
bittr n swt
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#102
Report 4 years ago
#102
(Original post by young_guns)
You clearly don't have a clue about the law.

And seemingly the memory of a goldfish if you don't remember something as recent as the Chad Evans case
not every case will be successful though.
0
Studentus-anonymous
Badges: 10
Rep:
?
#103
Report 4 years ago
#103
(Original post by Anonymous)
I obviously wasn't in a fit state, I never would choose to have a one night stand
Since alcohol impedes inhibition you very might well chose to under those conditions.

Memory loss and being unconscious and 'unfit' are two distinct things. People do a lot of crazy things and yet can't recall the day after.


Ultimately it's up to you to decide if you were raped, no-one else was there and you have to rely on your memory (if any) to help determine that.
Talk to someone from a counselling service if you want, or even just someone you trust. Call the police if you think there's a case to be answered, as you said yourself you believe you weren't in a fit state to consent and you don't believe you did.

Best of luck OP and sorry you've found yourself in this sort of situation.
0
icdjabtjk
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#104
Report 4 years ago
#104
(Original post by Anonymous)
wth you guys?? how do you know she was raped. maybe when she was drunk it was consensual.
you cant give consent when you are that drunk that you are being sick and cant remember anything the next day. There is no such thing as "maybe when she was drunk it was consensual", when someone is that drunk it is rape no matter what.
0
tim_123
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#105
Report 4 years ago
#105
(Original post by young_guns)
Because he told her? Because she needed a shower? Vomit stains on her clothes?Oh but you do. You were saying that she might have been the one who wanted it, which is obviously nonsensical because if she was so intoxicated that she couldn't even make her own decisions about where to go, when, how, that she needed someone to take her home, shower her, etc, then she was too drunk to consent.If you have sex with a girl in that situation, you are a rapist.
im arguing that you are making assumptions about this particular incident.

how did he know how to get back to hers. Why would he stay if it was rape, to then tell her in the morning.

Youre clearly not a big drinker. Yes, they're genuinely are people who black out after one or two drinks, how is that so hard to believe?
0
Wade-
Badges: 10
Rep:
?
#106
Report 4 years ago
#106
(Original post by So Instinct)
So the responsibility if dependent on the severity of the action. That's weak logic, either you're responsible for any action while under a certain state or you're not.


Regardless I'm talking above his explicit scenario where the female is the one pressuring the individual to have sex when she's been drinking. This isn't a general opinion that applies to any scenario.
I think you've misunderstood what I'm saying. I essentially agree with your point; its utterly ridiculous that intoxication discharges responsibility for some actions but not others (with a few exceptions)
0
So Instinct
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#107
Report 4 years ago
#107
(Original post by Wade-)
I think you've misunderstood what I'm saying. I essentially agree with your point; its utterly ridiculous that intoxication discharges responsibility for some actions but not others (with a few exceptions)
Oh my bad, I must have misinterpreted it. I thought you were approving of that idea instead of just stating it.
0
Wade-
Badges: 10
Rep:
?
#108
Report 4 years ago
#108
(Original post by TurboCretin)
I'm not sure how to interpret you where you say 'most rapists don't get life'. The sentence for rape is life imprisonment, s.1(4) SOA. I think what you're talking about is the sentencing guidelines for rape. The sentencing guidelines don't support imprisonment literally for life even under the most serious circumstances. The upper end of the range for serial/multiple rape is 19 years.
I suggest you learn to read a statute properly because what s.1(4) actually says is that someone is liable to imprisonment for life which means that they are liable for anything up to life in prison, rape doesn't carry a mandatory life sentence
0
am1992
Badges: 5
Rep:
?
#109
Report 4 years ago
#109
This may have been clarified in an above post so if I'm repeating things I apologise.

I'm a law graduate in Scots and English law and specialised in criminal law. Hopefully I can speak with some authority on this.

I'm assuming that the jurisdiction is for England and Wales; Scotland, NI and other jurisdictions will obviously vary on the definition.

I have included the full legal position, however for ease of reading feel free to look at the conclusion.

Legislation

Under the Sexual Offences Act 2003, s.1 defines rape as follows:

"A person (A) commits an offence if–(a) he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,

(b) B does not consent to the penetration, and

(c) A does not reasonably believe that B consents.


(2) Whether a belief is reasonable is to be determined having regard to all the circumstances, including any steps A has taken to ascertain whether B consents."


The issue in this situation is consent, since I'm taking the fact the sexual act took place to be undisputed. Obviously proving this in court can be very difficult; it is essentially the (supposed) victim's word against the defendants (I shall use the word accuser for the OP in the interests of objectivity. I do not wish to appear insensitive, I just can't think of a better way to put it atm).


Note: s.74 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 defines consent as being "if [the accuser] agrees by choice, and has the freedom and capacity to make that choice."

This is not particularly helpful as capacity is not defined.


Unconsciousness
Looking now at s.75

"(1) If in proceedings for an offence to which this section applies it is proved–
(a) that the defendant did the relevant act,

(b) that any of the circumstances specified in subsection (2) existed, and

(c) that the defendant knew that those circumstances existed,


the complainant is to be taken not to have consented to the relevant act...


(2)(d) the complainant was asleep or otherwise unconscious at the time of the relevant act"


So if the prosecution can prove that the act took place and the accuser was unconscious, there was no consent and there was rape.


Alcohol Consumption
I've been going on the assumption that the accuser was unconscious so far. If they were conscious but just severely intoxicated the issue is around capacity to consent.

R v Bree [2007] EWHC Crim 804 is a case which states the law on capacity to consent while drunk. First, the point is made that consent given drunkenly, even if a person cannot remember giving it, can still be consent. Severe alcohol intoxication, so long as the intoxication was voluntary and a drink not spiked, is not a bar to having sexual intercourse.

However, if a person has lost capacity to consent obviously they cannot do so and any sexual intercourse is rape. Defining when someone has lost capacity is not easy due to the variations in human ability to retain capacity and make choices. If, however, a person cannot make a reasonably informed decision, as seems to be the case in the OP's opening statement, then there is no capacity. Reasonably informed does not mean sensible; if a person is sober then they might not have ended up in that position but they still have sufficient capacity to consent.

In the end it is for a jury to decide if a person had capacity to make a reasonably informed decision based on the evidence so I cannot conclude definitively. However, my personal view is that if someone is so drunk that they have no recollection of the event no jury is going to say that they had capacity.


Conclusion
First, the sexual intercourse must be proved. The best thing to do is go to the police NOW to try to get samples etc that can be used as evidence that sexual intercourse occurred.

Second, if the OP was unconscious at the time of the act then there was rape.

Third, if the OP was conscious but lacked capacity to consent because she could not make a reasonably informed decision then there was rape. What capacity to make reasonably informed decisions are depends on the interpretation of the jury.
1
Willburrr
Badges: 9
Rep:
?
#110
Report 4 years ago
#110
(Original post by Anonymous)
I never ever thought id post a thread like this.
Last night, i got very drunk and was split up from my friends in a club. My memory went after that. The next thing I know I'm waking up with a guy who tells me we had sex, tells me i was sick in a taxi, sick on myself, he showered me and then put me to bed.. and then we had sex..
I can't wrap my head around this.. is this rape? I obviously wasn't in a fit state, I never would choose to have a one night stand,
I really don't know what to do.
I don't even know him at all.
I can't stop crying, I feel really odd, like I've never felt how I do right now.

Mod edit: Please note that this is not a debate thread, give helpful advice to the OP only. Unhelpful/unsupportive advice will be removed and you may receive a card
I'd like to start this off by saying that this is FACT, I looked up the law after a very similar thing happened to my best friend. As you were drunk you are legally unable to give consent so it is legally rape. That's as simple as the question is, you were raped.

Now, he mat have been equally/ more drunk meaning that he didn't intend to rape you - I Personally wouldn't class two people mutually consenting at the same level of inebriation as rape but legally it still is, both of your judgement would have been impaired and therefore neither of you could consent.

Regarding whether your drink was spiked which it may well have been if you can't remember anything and you're usually responsible - this is a more malicious form of rape which you should inform the authorities about - ask for a drug test if you're unsure
0
Bethaaaaany
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#111
Report 4 years ago
#111
I don't think that this is the right thread to be arguing about the definition of rape, guys.

OP I am so sorry for what happened to you, I can't imagine how you must be feeling. I hope you can find the strength to get through these next few days and weeks :hugs:
1
xabsx
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#112
Report 4 years ago
#112
If you are not giving consent and incapable of giving consent which includes drunk/drugged etc. it is rape.

Recently on a TV Show called Switched at Birth a similar thing happened with the woman being unsure if she did consent to sex whilst being drunk.
0
TheTruthTeller
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#113
Report 4 years ago
#113
Yes it's rape. I am so angered by how he took advantage of you. Was he sober when you had sex? Did you ask him why he took advantage? I can only try and empathise what you are feeling but I want you to know it wasn't your fault.
0
TurboCretin
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#114
Report 4 years ago
#114
(Original post by Wade-)
I suggest you learn to read a statute properly because what s.1(4) actually says is that someone is liable to imprisonment for life which means that they are liable for anything up to life in prison, rape doesn't carry a mandatory life sentence
No need for attitude. I think that we are talking at cross-purposes. This is my fault - I have not been as careful in my wording as I should have been.

It is clear that most rapists do not spend life in prison - this is reflected in the sentencing guidelines. What I said in the first place was that the court would be considering whether to dispense a life sentence. What I meant by this - and this is where I should have been more careful - is that the court will be considering the guilt of a defendant who has been charged with an offence which carries a life sentence. The point is that what is sufficient for people on TSR to say 'this sounds like rape' is not sufficient for a judge to send someone to prison.

To return to the main issue, I doubt that the victim having blacked out is sufficient evidence upon which to conclude that they were incapable of giving valid consent. If you have any case law which suggests otherwise then I'll happily read it.
0
RainbowKiwi
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#115
Report 4 years ago
#115
I'm so sorry to hear this. Please seek support and help, ask advice from a helpline or even go see your GP.
0
Wade-
Badges: 10
Rep:
?
#116
Report 4 years ago
#116
(Original post by TurboCretin)
No need for attitude. I think that we are talking at cross-purposes. This is my fault - I have not been as careful in my wording as I should have been.

It is clear that most rapists do not spend life in prison - this is reflected in the sentencing guidelines. What I said in the first place was that the court would be considering whether to dispense a life sentence. What I meant by this - and this is where I should have been more careful - is that the court will be considering the guilt of a defendant who has been charged with an offence which carries a life sentence. The point is that what is sufficient for people on TSR to say 'this sounds like rape' is not sufficient for a judge to send someone to prison.

To return to the main issue, I doubt that the victim having blacked out is sufficient evidence upon which to conclude that they were incapable of giving valid consent. If you have any case law which suggests otherwise then I'll happily read it.
I apologise for the way I said that, it was unnecessarily abrasive.

A court technically has the power to issue a life sentence but that is incredibly unlikely especially for someone who is only found guilty of one offence. Just look Ched Evans, he was sentenced to five years.

Yes I agree with you, it is incredibly frustrating where people who don't actually know much about law try and chirp in with their two cents.

I doubt blacking out would be enough to secure a guilty conviction alone but like I said in my first post it would be used by the prosecution to establish the lack of capacity to consent
0
User1674917
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#117
Report 4 years ago
#117
(Original post by Anonymous)
I never ever thought id post a thread like this.
Last night, i got very drunk and was split up from my friends in a club. My memory went after that. The next thing I know I'm waking up with a guy who tells me we had sex, tells me i was sick in a taxi, sick on myself, he showered me and then put me to bed.. and then we had sex..
I can't wrap my head around this.. is this rape? I obviously wasn't in a fit state, I never would choose to have a one night stand,
I really don't know what to do.
I don't even know him at all.
I can't stop crying, I feel really odd, like I've never felt how I do right now.

Mod edit: Please note that this is not a debate thread, give helpful advice to the OP only. Unhelpful/unsupportive advice will be removed and you may receive a card
Go to hospital privately and get it checked, I'm sure they can help.
If you can't remember then it may be hard to retrieve the info unless you get drunk again/
0
McRite
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#118
Report 4 years ago
#118
When someone is drunk, vomiting and barely conscience you don't offer them tea, even if they accepting the tea, you know they're not in the right frame of mind to knowingly accept tea. It's rape sue the *******.




Spoiler:
Show
Got the analogy from the one that went viral.
0
don100
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#119
Report 4 years ago
#119
(Original post by Anonymous)
I never ever thought id post a thread like this.
Last night, i got very drunk and was split up from my friends in a club. My memory went after that. The next thing I know I'm waking up with a guy who tells me we had sex, tells me i was sick in a taxi, sick on myself, he showered me and then put me to bed.. and then we had sex..
I can't wrap my head around this.. is this rape? I obviously wasn't in a fit state, I never would choose to have a one night stand,
I really don't know what to do.
I don't even know him at all.
I can't stop crying, I feel really odd, like I've never felt how I do right now.

Mod edit: Please note that this is not a debate thread, give helpful advice to the OP only. Unhelpful/unsupportive advice will be removed and you may receive a card
That's not rape.

The idea that a girl can wake up the morning after a night of enthusiastic sex and claim that she was too drunk to consent, is absolutely ridiculous.
0
Josb
Badges: 6
Rep:
?
#120
Report 4 years ago
#120
(Original post by ChickenMadness)
I'd have to agree. I've never managed to black out on alcohol alone.
Try to drink more than half of a vodka or rum next time.

(Original post by DiddyDec)
I quite often blackout through drink and I can be out for 6 hours and still be fully functional I just don't remember it. It is more common than you might think.
This.

(Original post by Anonymous)
X
Did it happen at your place or his?
Can you find the condom - if he used one?
Can you find the taxi's number?
Did anyone else see you with him at the party?
Have you spoken to the guy since? does he try to contact you? Was he drunk too?
Did he take some money in your wallet?
1
X
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Would you turn to a teacher if you were being bullied?

Yes (57)
23.95%
No (181)
76.05%

Watched Threads

View All