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Are anti-feminists sexist beasts or just stupid? watch

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    (Original post by GradeA*UnderA)
    Yes maaaate (again)
    Ayyyy you remember
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    Great, I guess I'm a sexist because I won't support a movement. No matter.
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    Are most feminists man haters or just clinging to an obsolete definition?
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    (Original post by loveleest)
    A bit of both
    I cant tell if you're being serious or not. I would never classify myself a feminist but from what I gathered I share a lot of the same oppinions you have on feminism.

    What am I then?
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    (Original post by Galaxie501)
    I cant tell if you're being serious or not. I would never classify myself a feminist but from what I gathered I share a lot of the same oppinions you have on feminism.

    What am I then?
    I think there is a difference between "Anti-feminists" and people who are not feminists. To me, anti-feminists are the ones that trash feminism as a whole which I don't agree with. You can trash some parts of it (Like I do) but not as a whole concept.I am not sure what you are lol
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    Are most feminists man haters or just clinging to an obsolete definition?
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    (Edited to not trigger snowflakes)
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    (Original post by loveleest)
    I think there is a difference between "Anti-feminists" and people who are not feminists. To me, anti-feminists are the ones that trash feminism as a whole which I don't agree with. You can trash some parts of it (Like I do) but not as a whole concept.I am not sure what you are lol
    The problem as I see it is that "feminism" has very much become synonymous what we now call "3rd wave feminism". However, 3rd wave feminism is just a general term in itsself. There is no organization to it, no member lists, no party program.

    That means that no one is really in the position to say "you're not a true feminist" without embarking on wild mental gymnastics ---- In the same way that no one can really tell a muslim that he is not a real muslim. (In the last two examples Im assuming that the people actually believe in feminism / islam. Of course its possible to say that someone is not a true feminist if he/she is actually a blatant anti-feminist --- that would not be a fallacy)

    Either way, I dont think I will ever describe myself as a feminist. I will go with the much safer term, egalitarian. There is nothing preventing you from focussing on womens issues when using that term.


    Weeeellll anyway, thats my stance on this.
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    I know this is old, and god knows I've posted enough on this topic, but the dictionary definition argument is absurd because clearly the term feminist/feminism has far more baggage behind it, and in general those who call themselves feminists will hold further beliefs (and no, I am not talking about "all men are evil", I am talking about softer forms of perceptive bias; pretty much all but the mildest/most disinterested feminists I have ever listened to/read stuff by/conversed with have this dubious and, I believe, subjective notion that the primary source of gender inequality is the devaluing of femininity relative to masculinity, and that women have historically been oppressed and had it "worse" than men until very recently)

    Intersectional feminism and the associated cultural Marxism is, I think, one of the left's biggest modern mistakes, and seems founded in subjective reasoning. I am extremely left wing in nearly every way, but I believe inequality is almost entirely a function of social class and/or earnings. It is absurd that an upper-middle class woman from a wealthy family in a good job should complain so much about the privilege of others who have not had half her opportunities.
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    (Original post by GradeA*UnderA)
    Anti-feminists generally consist of men who don't really understand what feminism is. There are some feminists who genuinely hate men, and are rather misandrists than feminists. Men seem to see these misandrists as representative of the entire feminist population and so hurl hate at all feminists. I think if you discard the misandrists from feminism, you'll discard the idiotic men in the process too.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    We do understand what 'feminism' is. We hear the same "feminism is about equality" mantra all the time. We've listened to celebrities and politicians say what feminism is. We've listened to activists and educators say what feminism is.

    The problem, however, is the fact all these people fail to recognize (or don't seem to know about) the endless double standards, misinformation, and ideological nonsense in feminist movement.

    We're tired of hearing misinformation about the wage gap. We're tired of feminists pretending as though women are the only victims of domestic violence worth talking about or raising awareness for. We're tired of hearing about supposed 'rape culture' and seeing the erosion of due process and common sense. We're tired of hearing exaggerated, recycled statistics claiming '1 in 4 college women will be raped' when that's not even what the original study said. We're tired of hearing about things being sexist and unfair towards women when they aren't. We're tired if things that are actually sexist towards men being ignored. We're tired of double standards like drunk women having no responsibility or ability to give consent, when the same isn't said for equally drunk men. We're tired of sexist, 'feminist' women-only scholarships in tertiary education when women are actually outperfming men and have no need for them. And we're tired of government and employers implementing discriminatory, anti-meritocratic gender quotas for the sole purpose of increasing the presence of women. This is all done in the name of mainstream feminism.

    So you can see why repeatedly telling us what feminism "really is" has become a meaningless endeavor.
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    (Original post by Galaxie501)
    The problem as I see it is that "feminism" has very much become synonymous what we now call "3rd wave feminism". However, 3rd wave feminism is just a general term in itsself. There is no organization to it, no member lists, no party program.

    That means that no one is really in the position to say "you're not a true feminist" without embarking on wild mental gymnastics ---- In the same way that no one can really tell a muslim that he is not a real muslim. (In the last two examples Im assuming that the people actually believe in feminism / islam. Of course its possible to say that someone is not a true feminist if he/she is actually a blatant anti-feminist --- that would not be a fallacy)

    Either way, I dont think I will ever describe myself as a feminist. I will go with the much safer term, egalitarian. There is nothing preventing you from focussing on womens issues when using that term.


    Weeeellll anyway, thats my stance on this.
    The problem that I have with "3rd wave feminists" is that I personally don't class them as feminists since most of their feminism is centred on western females and they don't care about anything else outside of it. To me, if you are a feminist you need to be for every type of female or else then it's just fake tbh. I believe you can call yourself a feminist and still pick up the bad parts of it. I do it quite a lot and still consider myself a feminist, just not those annoying "extremist's" that whinge about non-existent problems
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    neither. anti-feminists are rational people.

    "rape culture"? "1 in 4 women are raped"? so the western world is basically the same as the congo? really?
    "objectification"? everybody is objectified, in different ways. for each woman objectified for her looks, a man is objectified for his status
    "wage gap"? women tend to choose less lucrative careers, take more time off, work part time more, are less assertive (and hence less likely to be promoted), etc. that's not men's fault. that's women's fault. they're responsible for earning less based on their own deliberations. also, if women are discriminated against based on their gender and earn less, why wouldn't employers then just exclusively hire women if it generates higher profits? and if women are discriminated against in the workplace based on their gender and hence earn less, does that mean that men are discriminated against when it comes to jail sentences for the same crimes? yes! and going to jail is far ****ing worse than getting a little bit less money, for one's OWN life choices.

    "feminism is defined as the equality between men and women - it's the dictionary definition"
    oh yeah? so are MRAs therefore freedom loving egalitarians because they desire men's rights where men have less of them than women? I mean, they are defined as "men's rights activists", right? so they must therefore not be sexist pigs but rather, simply, male rights activists. it's by definition what they are all about, right? definitions, right?

    also, what rights do men have by law that women don't?
    because there are a huge ****ing range of rights that *women* have that men don't, i.e. a lower retirement age (which has pension implications), more maternity leave time, less resources (per person) for domestic abuse victims, a right against having their genitals cut up for cosmetic or religious reasons at birth, etc. oh, women lack the right to go around topless whereas men do? oh give me a ****ing break. and what right would you like to exchange for the right to fight in armed combat on the front lines?

    oh yeah, and what is up with this hypocrisy? "ban page 3" + "slutwalk"? "women can wear what they want" + "we shouldn't tell other (islamic) cultures what to do. that's racist"? seriously? double speak to the highest level.

    feminism is pathetic, and downright shameful
    it is the creed of misandrists, clueless little girls and spineless unprincipled career politicians
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    (Original post by loveleest)
    The problem that I have with "3rd wave feminists" is that I personally don't class them as feminists since most of their feminism is centred on western females and they don't care about anything else outside of it. To me, if you are a feminist you need to be for every type of female or else then it's just fake tbh. I believe you can call yourself a feminist and still pick up the bad parts of it. I do it quite a lot and still consider myself a feminist, just not those annoying "extremist's" that whinge about non-existent problems
    But see, thats exactly what I meant. It all comes down to personal definition, which is why I believe that we cant blame anyone who is "against" feminism, given the influx of extremists hs caused a massive disservice.
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    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    We do understand what 'feminism' is. We hear the same "feminism is about equality" mantra all the time. We've listened to celebrities and politicians say what feminism is. We've listened to activists and educators say what feminism is.

    The problem, however, is the fact all these people fail to recognize (or don't seem to know about) the endless double standards, misinformation, and ideological nonsense in feminist movement.

    We're tired of hearing misinformation about the wage gap. We're tired of feminists pretending as though women are the only victims of domestic violence worth talking about or raising awareness for. We're tired of hearing about supposed 'rape culture' and seeing the erosion of due process and common sense. We're tired of hearing exaggerated, recycled statistics claiming '1 in 4 college women will be raped' when that's not even what the original study said. We're tired of hearing about things being sexist and unfair towards women when they aren't. We're tired if things that are actually sexist towards men being ignored. We're tired of double standards like drunk women having no responsibility or ability to give consent, when the same isn't said for equally drunk men. We're tired of sexist, 'feminist' women-only scholarships in tertiary education when women are actually outperfming men and have no need for them. And we're tired of government and employers implementing discriminatory, anti-meritocratic gender quotas for the sole purpose of increasing the presence of women. This is all done in the name of mainstream feminism.

    So you can see why repeatedly telling us what feminism "really is" has become a meaningless endeavor.
    You're not anti-feminist, you're anti-bs. It's not like you've stated that men should be given more rights, or women should lose some of theirs, but just highlighted misinformation.
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    I love the literal definition of feminism because I'm an egalitarian, but the actual modern day movement and idealistic "third wave feminism" in my opinion does little to actually benefit the lives of women struggling all over the world. So I can't say I truly support it.

    Getting naked in public protests and declaring yourself a "feminist" only causes other women to be oppressed somewhere else around the world.
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    (Original post by napkinsquirrel)
    I think this is more of an issue regarding how the modern feminist movement is perceived. By the very definition of feminism, to say that you are an anti-feminist is saying that you don't want men and women to have equal rights. However, whenever I speak to my friends about feminism and they say that they are anti-feminist I distinctly get the feeling that they are talking about the more vocal and hateful members of the movement as opposed to disagreeing with the proposition of equality between genders. I believe that feminism is similar to Islam in the way that it's name and presence in the media has been hijacked by radicals. I don't believe that people are inherently stupid because they say they are anti-feminist but simply that they have the wrong impression of what the movement stands for.
    This explanation right here is all you need as a guide to the 21st century.
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    Yes, yes, it would be nice if the feminist movement drew together a semblance of coherence and consistency in its policy implications.

    As I've always said, I agree with the notion that women deserve dignity, freedom from patriarchal influences, and equality under the law. The methods of actually implementing them, however, and the ways in which they are advocated, are far more controversial. These including quotas, positive discrimination, and women-only shortlists, and are promoted through no-platforming, silly nude protests and the use of twitter hashtags.

    The same also applies to certain targets set by some feminists, including the idea that women should earn exactly the same across the board without controlling for a plethora of factors explaining wage differentials, and the idea that women should be exactly as good as, if not better, than men at everything, be it football or mechanical engineering. Why? Because some theorist somewhere in the 60s came up with the absurd notion that every human being is identical and can play any role in our capitalist model as any other human being.

    If criticising the above makes me a "beast" in the eyes of a child on some student forum, then so be it. I'm a beast.
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    (Original post by GradeA*UnderA)
    You're not anti-feminist, you're anti-bs. It's not like you've stated that men should be given more rights, or women should lose some of theirs, but just highlighted misinformation.
    Words evolve, and are nuanced. It is an entirely pointless and pedantic endeavour to keep going on about how feminism has this very particular definition when it is almost irrelevant in common discourse. Feminism pretty much always entails a primary focus on the problems faced by women. Were it really about gender equality you would expect its proponents to really focus equally on both genders. In general, women are the focal point the vast majority of the time, and men's issues, if addressed at all, are framed as a consequence of negative attitude towards feminine qualities. I mean, it's in the name, you can't get away from that. It's like having a movement for the equality of all races and calling it Caucasianism.

    Even the most mild of feminists always seem to operate under the assumption that women need to be brought up to the level of men. I mean look at that whole campaign to try to make feminism appealing, the "HeForShe" thing. That's it, HeForShe. The focal point is women. And this was some of the least radical, most agreeable stuff. If I recall correctly it was a bit more focused on third world countries than feminism tends to be in general nowadays, in which case, it is somewhat more sensible, as nobody is denying that women are essentially second-class citizens in many of those. But the bizarre notion that women have it worse even in the West is constantly perpetuated by feminists, and if not, it is at least femininity which is seen to be undervalued relative to masculinity. There is always a lens, there is always a slight push in one direction.
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    MRA seem to be a sad bunch of bitter virgins with enormous victim mentalities. They all seem to worship the likes of Roosh who believe in legalising rape.

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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    neither. anti-feminists are rational people.

    "rape culture"? "1 in 4 women are raped"? so the western world is basically the same as the congo? really?
    "objectification"? everybody is objectified, in different ways. for each woman objectified for her looks, a man is objectified for his status
    "wage gap"? women tend to choose less lucrative careers, take more time off, work part time more, are less assertive (and hence less likely to be promoted), etc. that's not men's fault. that's women's fault. they're responsible for earning less based on their own deliberations. also, if women are discriminated against based on their gender and earn less, why wouldn't employers then just exclusively hire women if it generates higher profits? and if women are discriminated against in the workplace based on their gender and hence earn less, does that mean that men are discriminated against when it comes to jail sentences for the same crimes? yes! and going to jail is far ****ing worse than getting a little bit less money, for one's OWN life choices.

    "feminism is defined as the equality between men and women - it's the dictionary definition"
    oh yeah? so are MRAs therefore freedom loving egalitarians because they desire men's rights where men have less of them than women? I mean, they are defined as "men's rights activists", right? so they must therefore not be sexist pigs but rather, simply, male rights activists. it's by definition what they are all about, right? definitions, right?

    also, what rights do men have by law that women don't?
    because there are a huge ****ing range of rights that *women* have that men don't, i.e. a lower retirement age (which has pension implications), more maternity leave time, less resources (per person) for domestic abuse victims, a right against having their genitals cut up for cosmetic or religious reasons at birth, etc. oh, women lack the right to go around topless whereas men do? oh give me a ****ing break. and what right would you like to exchange for the right to fight in armed combat on the front lines?

    oh yeah, and what is up with this hypocrisy? "ban page 3" + "slutwalk"? "women can wear what they want" + "we shouldn't tell other (islamic) cultures what to do. that's racist"? seriously? double speak to the highest level.

    feminism is pathetic, and downright shameful
    it is the creed of misandrists, clueless little girls and spineless unprincipled career politicians
    Are you a virgin?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    Are all feminists missandrist or can they just not think for themselves?
 
 
 

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