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What leads to fear of commitment in men? watch

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    (Original post by Cherie Amour)
    Oh and the only reason I daydream about having kids is because I daydream simply about people complimenting me on how cute my kid is. Not because I want a man and a family. I suppose I don't.
    That's incredibly egocentric of you.
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    (Original post by Juichiro)
    That's incredibly egocentric of you.
    Thanks for judging me. You probably didn't read the longer post or you'd understand that I have little faith in relationships.
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    (Original post by Cherie Amour)
    Thanks for judging me. You probably didn't read the longer post or you'd understand that I have little faith in relationships.
    I did not judge you. I merely reached a conclusion based on a fact (you want a kid to use him as a compliment bait).
    That is irrelevant to how you feel about relationships.
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    (Original post by Juichiro)
    I did not judge you. I merely reached a conclusion based on a fact (you want a kid to use him as a compliment bait).
    That is irrelevant to how you feel about relationships.
    It is very relevant. It is saying that I don't have much care left to be in a relationship, and as emphasis to the point, why I even think of having kids to begin with has nothing to do with being in a relationship, exactly.

    See. You didn't read. So you are judging.
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    (Original post by Cherie Amour)
    I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

    About your Epicurus thing. Well the Greeks I believe have different types of love. There's eros which is sex. And something else which is brotherly love. And then a third love I think, for the parent to child. I feel each person should have each kind of love in them. Why not? I can lose a friend and be hurt as well. Or a child. Or my mother. Should I be a recluse to avoid pain? It reminds me of this Spongebob episode (yes, Spongebob). He was afraid of getting physically hurt and so he stayed indoors all day. And when he got lonely and bored and realised how stupid this was, he engaged in socialising again. I know it's a cartoon but as a kid it had some significance for me. I can't hide and not live or try because I'm afraid of pain. Which oddly I am doing now. But now it's not because of fear, it's because I can't be bothered to care about affection anymore. I actually don't talk to my mother as much because I tell myself casually when I'm like washing dishes or something, "at least I won't miss her when she goes." I don't think I can handle it. But is it right? No, it's ridiculous. But ok, you are dating someone so you're better than I am I guess. It's not like men don't want me, I just don't want the heartache or headache. I can't handle it. I'm not even sad about it anymore. You can stop reading if this gets too cringe. I might have opened a wound when it was you who I was interrogating.
    first of all no problem at all.

    exactly but i think out of all those loves the love between a man and a women is the weakest.
    family love is non competitive.
    friendship love is less competitive.
    but love between lovers? thats competitive. people naturally want the alpha. and if you think there is someone more alpha then the alpha your with. then you desire them.

    I feel the spongebob analogy. i guess the problem is that i want to take the risk of loving and getting hurt.
    but im just numb to a lot of the feelings. its like i have an emotional immune system that fights off emotional vulnerability.
    i feel you on the parent thing and trying to build a wall of defense emotionally against inevitable loss.
    i wouldn't say i'm better than you because of it. i mean especially given the reasons behind it.
    n no worries its often things we can relate to ourselves that make us respond.

    (Original post by Cherie Amour)
    My thing about not dating anymore is because I have a high sex drive, and I know this because I have always since a kid fantasised about sex and almost took my own virginity. I'm dying laughing as I write that because I didn't realise what was happening until it began to hurt. So to answer your question, I literally have done nothing, except masturbation, which I considered getting counseling for. But I've weaned myself off it in recent years. I've never given a blow job and can't remember how penetration feels.

    Anyway about the sex drive, yes I masturbate it away or keep busy or get stone faced when a good looking man approaches me or adamantly pursues me. I've inoculated myself against the pleasure of being with a man. I walk down the street almost like :mad: just so men won't talk to me. If men didn't have glorious penises I would be asexual. I really don't think about the future or being married of having kids. I daydream about it but do not think it'll happen for me nor do I plan for it. This is probably not helping my case with you about how horrible women are. But I agree 100% with hardening myself in society to avoid being seen as vulnerable or being taken advantage of. I'm not mean, I haven't lost my sense of humour or instinct to protect or anything, I haven't lost desire to be with a man sexually, I just have lost desire of being committed. I actually feel like gagging thinking about it.
    wow thats quite hardcore. but yea masturbations awesome. its hard to beat. i mean a nice dinner, masturbation and a documentary. pretty damn good night. something tasty something pleasurable and something educational. whats not to like? but kudos to the self discipline.

    interesting though when did you first start to see commitment as danger?

    (Original post by Cherie Amour)
    Give me an example of a culture where people normalise after falling from grace? Do you mean like ancient tribes or Islam or something? I don't disagree, just looking for a pointer. I agree that in this society where everyone can do what they want there is no standard for how to be and when two people get together there's no foundation to build anything on, whereas in a more traditional society, there's a norm and then outsiders. I mean we have that in the west as well but not really. Like you can be ostracised in one part of town for not being like everyone in the area but then you move to another part of town in search of acceptance and can find a totally different world. But I'm sure in like Afghanistan, one end is like the other lol. There's no escape, you have to adhere to a set of principles or else. I might not agree with their principles but I agree with the concept. Love games here is too much of a dice toss and I'm COMPLETELY UNinterested and it's ****ed, I know. I'd either have to find someone as uninterested and just in it for sex, or some kind of hero. Ugh.
    hmmm a culture normalizing falling from grace? interesting phrase.
    im not sure about them doing that. but certainly shared meaning of whats meant to be and what is desired.
    like islam and judaism are pretty dominating religions where people have a strict way of being with very defined rolls for men and women. certain indian sects. sikhism. basically most places outside of europe and the americas.
    but islams a good one. more for men than women. but i notice more women desiring it due to at leas there being some roll to follow. even if its a disadvantaging one.

    yea definitely a lack of shared "givens" and "norms" causes a lot of confusion and a tug of war in every relationship and thus complicating it. it can be restrictive but the lack of responsibility is quite liberating. there was a study i found a while back regarding chocolate. and the found that people with one piece of chocolate loved the chocolate. but people with various choices enjoyed the chocolate they got less.

    some kind of hero aha.
    as for uncommitted sex that can be an emotional mine field where one party gets attached and the other doesn't or you both end up being in a relationship.
    tbh thats how i got in the relationship that im in now loool.

    (Original post by Cherie Amour)
    Oh and the only reason I daydream about having kids is because I daydream simply about people complimenting me on how cute my kid is. Not because I want a man and a family. I suppose I don't.
    ah i see. you see i do want a family. but thats my own issue. i think cause i didn't come from a typical family i really desire it. but then also i know enough to know it won't be what i want it to be. so i know i won't get my desire. which is annoying that i have it in the first place.

    but thats interesting. so you want the kid as like an extension of yourself?

    i do have a sort of fatherly desire to raise a crew or tribe of my own. probably male instinct.
    to the point where i see a partner as so unreliable i thought of just plain old adopting.

    but the cave man in me keeps telling me i need to have a child that looks like a mini me.
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    (Original post by Mick.w)
    first of all no problem at all.

    exactly but i think out of all those loves the love between a man and a women is the weakest.
    family love is non competitive.
    friendship love is less competitive.
    but love between lovers? thats competitive. people naturally want the alpha. and if you think there is someone more alpha then the alpha your with. then you desire them.

    I feel the spongebob analogy. i guess the problem is that i want to take the risk of loving and getting hurt.
    but im just numb to a lot of the feelings. its like i have an emotional immune system that fights off emotional vulnerability.
    i feel you on the parent thing and trying to build a wall of defense emotionally against inevitable loss.
    i wouldn't say i'm better than you because of it. i mean especially given the reasons behind it.
    n no worries its often things we can relate to ourselves that make us respond.


    wow thats quite hardcore. but yea masturbations awesome. its hard to beat. i mean a nice dinner, masturbation and a documentary. pretty damn good night. something tasty something pleasurable and something educational. whats not to like? but kudos to the self discipline.

    interesting though when did you first start to see commitment as danger?



    hmmm a culture normalizing falling from grace? interesting phrase.
    im not sure about them doing that. but certainly shared meaning of whats meant to be and what is desired.
    like islam and judaism are pretty dominating religions where people have a strict way of being with very defined rolls for men and women. certain indian sects. sikhism. basically most places outside of europe and the americas.
    but islams a good one. more for men than women. but i notice more women desiring it due to at leas there being some roll to follow. even if its a disadvantaging one.

    yea definitely a lack of shared "givens" and "norms" causes a lot of confusion and a tug of war in every relationship and thus complicating it. it can be restrictive but the lack of responsibility is quite liberating. there was a study i found a while back regarding chocolate. and the found that people with one piece of chocolate loved the chocolate. but people with various choices enjoyed the chocolate they got less.

    some kind of hero aha.
    as for uncommitted sex that can be an emotional mine field where one party gets attached and the other doesn't or you both end up being in a relationship.
    tbh thats how i got in the relationship that im in now loool.



    ah i see. you see i do want a family. but thats my own issue. i think cause i didn't come from a typical family i really desire it. but then also i know enough to know it won't be what i want it to be. so i know i won't get my desire. which is annoying that i have it in the first place.

    but thats interesting. so you want the kid as like an extension of yourself?

    i do have a sort of fatherly desire to raise a crew or tribe of my own. probably male instinct.
    to the point where i see a partner as so unreliable i thought of just plain old adopting.

    but the cave man in me keeps telling me i need to have a child that looks like a mini me.
    You must come from a good family. I began to pull away from my mother when I saw she wanted me and my older sister to engage in some competition for her love. She even told me it's not unconditional how she feels for us.

    You must also have good friends lol. Actually when I see someone wants to one up me I immediately stop being their friend. I just cut off contact and turn my head up to them and walk passed. I don't trust that so in that regard you might be right, if you have a good friend anyway.

    I would get tired competing with my lover. I don't have an issue submitting for harmony's sake but also, expecting respect in return of course.

    Well the issue was when I lost my virginity. How he treated me afterwards compared to how he treated me to get me. He physically attacked me. I bawled my eyes out and made an oath that I wouldn't sleep with anyone again. And I haven't. It seems I can be so committed but to not being committed. Interesting. It wasn't really issues with my dad, even though he sort of got up and didn't look back. I think that actually might be it. Now that I type it out. I feel nothing and might be traumatised and can't love, I don't know.

    And yea normalising from grace; I was thinking of how to word it. But basically you know when someone does something forbidden or looked down upon in their culture, they either redeem themselves in the eye of their community or remain as outsiders. Remember when the west had "looked down upons." These days nothing is looked down upon. It's seen as regressive to look down on someone especially in matters of sex. My feelings toward sex haven't changed and for others it has. So I don't bother trying to explain to men who are interested in me that I can't suck a ****. But I am not against it but somehow it ends up being a grilling. And then i get offended like, why must I have had sex before? Because I'm black?

    Oo the chocolate one is interesting, and not just because I like chocolate candy.

    And so your current relationship started from sex like FWB? Who initiated the relationship? Like how do people initiate those now? lol
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    (Original post by Mick.w)
    ah i see. you see i do want a family. but thats my own issue. i think cause i didn't come from a typical family i really desire it. but then also i know enough to know it won't be what i want it to be. so i know i won't get my desire. which is annoying that i have it in the first place.

    but thats interesting. so you want the kid as like an extension of yourself?

    i do have a sort of fatherly desire to raise a crew or tribe of my own. probably male instinct.
    to the point where i see a partner as so unreliable i thought of just plain old adopting.

    but the cave man in me keeps telling me i need to have a child that looks like a mini me.
    Oops, just saw this.
    What is it that you want from a family?
    Cave man lol I want a child that is an improvement of me, but a reflection of my values as an adult which I can't control. I want to die knowing my kid grew up to be a good and successful person. And attractive
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    (Original post by Cherie Amour)
    You must come from a good family. I began to pull away from my mother when I saw she wanted me and my older sister to engage in some competition for her love. She even told me it's not unconditional how she feels for us.
    ah my family had its problems. the whole parent child roll was reversed where i felt like i had to look after my mom rather than the other way round. but i think that might be kinda typical for guys from single parent families.

    (Original post by Cherie Amour)
    You must also have good friends lol. Actually when I see someone wants to one up me I immediately stop being their friend. I just cut off contact and turn my head up to them and walk passed. I don't trust that so in that regard you might be right, if you have a good friend anyway.
    ah tbh if you are a guy with male friends most of if not a minimum half of what your interaction involves is a sort of **** measuring competition. but i guess i don't really rely on friends that much either. i see them as useful. but that most if not all would stab me in the back to take whats mine if they could. but i guess the difference is. a friend is easier to keep at a safe distance than a lover. and if a friend screws u over it is easier to clean up the damage. but a lover gets right into your heart right into the cogs of your working and screws with you. friends can only dent ur armour.

    (Original post by Cherie Amour)
    I would get tired competing with my lover. I don't have an issue submitting for harmony's sake but also, expecting respect in return of course.
    its not so much competing with your lover but competing with everyone else to stop them from stealing your lover. but yea its tiring.

    (Original post by Cherie Amour)
    Well the issue was when I lost my virginity. How he treated me afterwards compared to how he treated me to get me. He physically attacked me. I bawled my eyes out and made an oath that I wouldn't sleep with anyone again. And I haven't. It seems I can be so committed but to not being committed. Interesting. It wasn't really issues with my dad, even though he sort of got up and didn't look back. I think that actually might be it. Now that I type it out. I feel nothing and might be traumatised and can't love, I don't know.
    ah yea that'll do it. when did your dad leave?
    interesting. do you still desire love though?
    cause i flip flop with what i want with love. one part of me wants it like a good drug but anothers afraid of how that drug will ruin my life.

    (Original post by Cherie Amour)
    And yea normalising from grace; I was thinking of how to word it. But basically you know when someone does something forbidden or looked down upon in their culture, they either redeem themselves in the eye of their community or remain as outsiders. Remember when the west had "looked down upons." These days nothing is looked down upon. It's seen as regressive to look down on someone especially in matters of sex. My feelings toward sex haven't changed and for others it has. So I don't bother trying to explain to men who are interested in me that I can't suck a ****. But I am not against it but somehow it ends up being a grilling. And then i get offended like, why must I have had sex before? Because I'm black?
    yea exactly now people can do whatever. but i've noticed it has a negative effect on kids.
    its funny. when contraception was invented crime went down massively 20 years later.
    n academics believe that most criminals are young men just entering adulthood
    and that the boys that would of been born into bad homes didn't get born due to contraception.
    and thus a whole generation of unwanted children that would turn into criminals 20 years later was avoided.
    however they've noticed crime has started to rise again. and i feel its due to the lack of sexual responsibility our generation has. or should i say the generation before us. yea its a shame black girls are more sexualized than white girls. i don't think hip hop videos helped.

    (Original post by Cherie Amour)
    Oo the chocolate one is interesting, and not just because I like chocolate candy.
    exactly. i did find it interesting that people overwhelmed with choice were less happy then what they have. which makes me think restrictive forms of society may make a good majority of people happy. due to being given strict set guidelines to follow. that way you don't have to think as much about what your doing and can just kind of exist with a bit less stress.

    (Original post by Cherie Amour)
    And so your current relationship started from sex like FWB? Who initiated the relationship? Like how do people initiate those now? lol
    hmmm. I'm not sure really. I think it was just mutual. we would catch the bus together from a class we both went to.
    I invited her in to chill. came round 2 times. 2nd time she kind of pretended that she wanted to go somewhere in the room (that she had no need to go to) but it involved getting close to me and i pulled her to me and kissed. then had sex. but she was thinking of getting back with her ex and so was i. we spoke about it to each other. but just made a regular routine of it. but then she got back with her ex. which hurt. cuz i was getting to like her. my ex tried to get back with me but i was just kinda done really.
    then 2 months later the fwb came running back saying shed broke up with her ex and wanted to be with me.

    so thats how it started n thats how it ended up in a relationship.

    (Original post by Cherie Amour)
    Oops, just saw this.
    What is it that you want from a family?
    Cave man lol I want a child that is an improvement of me, but a reflection of my values as an adult which I can't control. I want to die knowing my kid grew up to be a good and successful person. And attractive
    I guess. I want to start my own legacy. using my surname as a brand of reputation and status.
    so for this i want a very social and politically savvy but also noble women to have kids with.
    who won't embarrass the family or let us down by doing something stupid like cheating or flirting or just making the family unit look weak in general. I want to do better than my parents and my kids to do better than me.
    I want a large amount of kids (for a westerner).
    around 8ish. enough for them to be a collective cabinet of the family name and business.
    and when i say cabinet i mean like a political cabinet with ministers responsible for different things.
    then with each kid having a set duty for the family that is also related to their career, it would provide much more opportunities for the grand kids. because if there's one thing i've learned in life its not what you know it's who you know rings very true. and the more people you know and the stronger your family is the better your chances are.

    ive noticed all the people who do the worst as a cultural group are people who have notoriously broken up families.

    whereas the people who do the best have very strong families.

    and yes i want them all to be attractive.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Hi I'm just wanting to know people's thoughts on some of the factors that lead to some men being so afraid of commitment. Of course I'm aware that some women have the same fear of commitment but I suspect the reasons are different and I would like to explore the reasons in men.

    In case you are curious I am in my mid 20s and have only ever attracted men who turned out to be emotionally unavailable and fear commitment, and as a result I have never made it to being the girlfriend (no I didn't sleep with any of the men). I'm sick of these men being drawn to me but also acknowledge that there must be a reason I am drawing them into my life. I've been trying to look within to see why this might be and the only thing I can think of is my father is has always been physically present (still married to mother, living with us) but emotionally absent. What can I do?
    People who tend to be afraid to commit have similar personality types, maybe they are more adventurous, free-spirited kind of people and you might either attract or be attracted to those kinds of people? Those people do tend to be the type that don't commit, they like the independence.

    I think the more stable albeit boring kind of person is more likely to "commit".
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    (Original post by Mick.w)
    ah my family had its problems. the whole parent child roll was reversed where i felt like i had to look after my mom rather than the other way round. but i think that might be kinda typical for guys from single parent families.
    Oh you're from a single parent? I see. Aw you look after your mother, that's nice. As in financial support or emotional like protection? Or both? I kind of relate because I've kind of picked up the "son" role after my dad left. As far as protection goes; when my mum has to fight verbally or physically with someone she calls me, or when she needs anything like someone to look after the house or last minute backup money or someone to carry heavy stuff, climb a ladder or to open new bottles of ketchup or something, she calls me. However when she has men around she doesn't want me around. Even though I'm sure she and I have different tastes.

    (Original post by Mick.w)
    ah tbh if you are a guy with male friends most of if not a minimum half of what your interaction involves is a sort of **** measuring competition. but i guess i don't really rely on friends that much either. i see them as useful. but that most if not all would stab me in the back to take whats mine if they could. but i guess the difference is. a friend is easier to keep at a safe distance than a lover. and if a friend screws u over it is easier to clean up the damage. but a lover gets right into your heart right into the cogs of your working and screws with you. friends can only dent ur armour.


    its not so much competing with your lover but competing with everyone else to stop them from stealing your lover. but yea its tiring.
    Oh I get it now. I thought you meant competing with my lover, because I know people do that. Whether it's with wits or pay.

    I don't really make friends with people the way I used to. It used to be I'd socialise with baggamans but have a private trio I rolled with. It always worked like that with all the places I had to move to and new schools. I got everyone to know me and like me but drew the line still with my actual friends. When I needed clothes, devices or shelter or food even I had them. I was younger and had time for that. But now in Uni I haven't got to that point. I trust no one. Is that horrible?

    I do agree like getting stabbed in the face by a friend is different than a lover. I really don't know why I guess the emotional investment but I get devastated when anyone ****s me over. So I keep away from everything now. I chat to people but that's it. People invite me out, I make up a lie. Or ignore them. It's safe and I'm not unfulfilled I just know there's gonna come a point where I need to give a ****. I guess.

    My ex who's like twice my age told me I need to fix how I talk to people lol he said I can't talk to people so rudely and aggressively anymore. I looked him dead in his eyes and said I don't give a **** and he just looked completely startled. I mean why do I need friends? How are they useful? How are your friends personally useful to you? They've always been a headache for me. I mean I guess for a good laugh. But I make myself laugh.


    (Original post by Mick.w)
    ah yea that'll do it. when did your dad leave?
    interesting. do you still desire love though?
    cause i flip flop with what i want with love. one part of me wants it like a good drug but anothers afraid of how that drug will ruin my life.
    I grew up with my dad but my mother made him leave when I was 7 and they reunited out of nowhere when I was 10. And we left when I was 12. I haven't seen him since but he knows where we live and stuff but even when we lived together he forgot my birthday and cheated and stuff. I just numbed myself and I hate "numb" it sounds so ****ing emo, so like desensitised. I think that's a better word lol

    And no I don't desire love AT ALL. I am completely like...whatever. I want sex from a man. If that. I mean the only reason I value a man is for his penis and I've managed to stay away from that as well.

    I don't sit around like envisioning myself moping around in life and some guy comes to pick me up and put me together. Only when I'm really sad and need tear jerking. Which is rare.

    I don't look around at other couples like "that's so sweet. *hearts for eyes*."

    I don't stare out my window wondering when my knight in shining armour is going to come and swing me on the back of his motorbike. I look out my window wondering when the delivery man is coming. That's about it.

    I don't put on perfume so a guy I anticipate seeing will think, "damn she smells good." I put it on so I don't offend people on the tubes.

    I don't do my hair so guys can say, "wow you look nice." I do my hair so I don't look mental.

    I don't go shopping so guys can say, "Hey. Cool shoes." I go shopping so I can embody my fashion icons. Not to say I don't put in effort, I can't help being naturally good looking but I don't have care for others. I mean I wear long sleeves and work boots in 70-80 degree weather And I feel bad for girls showing everything. Because it's like I've never left the house showing my legs since wearing my uniform skirt. Yet I haven't struggled to get a man's attention.

    I must be crazy because as time goes by, I get sad. I get sad that because I'm a woman I am looked at as fodder for some man I'm not even paying attention to. I have had a philosophy in life that says "I want respect, not to be liked." You can dislike me. Just don't disrespect me. You can talk about me. Just don't touch me. So how I interact with other people and how I dress and me pushing people away, it's kind of my display of my mind. How I got to this point, no clue.


    (Original post by Mick.w)
    yea exactly now people can do whatever. but i've noticed it has a negative effect on kids.
    its funny. when contraception was invented crime went down massively 20 years later.
    n academics believe that most criminals are young men just entering adulthood
    and that the boys that would of been born into bad homes didn't get born due to contraception.
    and thus a whole generation of unwanted children that would turn into criminals 20 years later was avoided.
    yea its a shame black girls are more sexualized than white girls. i don't think hip hop videos helped.
    Condoms were invented and crime went down? I looked up when condoms were invented lol and it was like the 19th century, maybe before. I didn't know condoms had a correlation to crime, that's interesting. Tell me more? I would think that crime would go up since people felt they could do whatever they wanted now that there's a rubber bag on them. How does that feel? Condoms?



    (Original post by Mick.w)
    however they've noticed crime has started to rise again. and i feel its due to the lack of sexual responsibility our generation has. or should i say the generation before us.
    Yes, the generation before us, the 60s babies, 70s teens. The stupid dopes were mad at how they were beaten before; now it is illegal. Or women were finally able to work and did as they pleased in relationships, or introduction to crack and the hippie movement, and the baby boomers which I believe is when people realised they could now have all these kids and get aid for it finally and still be able to work. The dawn of excessive consumerism and suburbia as what I think is part of a comeback from the WWII and the Great Depression and ...stuff. So (early 90s, late 80s born kids) our parents basically lost their ****ing minds because their parents did. Our grandparents either did well and bounced back from the war, or were left to struggle in council housing and **** neighbourhoods that seemed to have missed the memo that the war is over. And then raised our parents in an age where women were beginning to do for themselves, whether by circumstance or stupid choice. That's what happened in my family, especially on my mother's side. They're crazy. And so my mom is crazy. And I refuse to go crazy even if everyone else is already heading there by default. Which, granted, might make me seem crazy to others. But I've simply turned the default switch off. Which can be good. Whether I'm going in the right direction or not, eh.


    (Original post by Mick.w)
    exactly. i did find it interesting that people overwhelmed with choice were less happy then what they have. which makes me think restrictive forms of society may make a good majority of people happy. due to being given strict set guidelines to follow. that way you don't have to think as much about what your doing and can just kind of exist with a bit less stress.


    (Original post by Mick.w)
    hmmm. I'm not sure really. I think it was just mutual. we would catch the bus together from a class we both went to.
    I invited her in to chill. came round 2 times. 2nd time she kind of pretended that she wanted to go somewhere in the room (that she had no need to go to) but it involved getting close to me and i pulled her to me and kissed. then had sex. but she was thinking of getting back with her ex and so was i. we spoke about it to each other. but just made a regular routine of it. but then she got back with her ex. which hurt. cuz i was getting to like her. my ex tried to get back with me but i was just kinda done really.
    then 2 months later the fwb came running back saying shed broke up with her ex and wanted to be with me.

    so thats how it started n thats how it ended up in a relationship.
    Oh my god, that is so romantic lol Oh. You made the move. Well, I can't say how I would've reacted. But I don't think it would've lead to a relationship. I probably would've run away screaming. I've been very close to having sex in these years but each time it involves me being there passed the sun setting with him still trying to convince me to give it up. And next thing I know we're eating and watching films and it's nighttime, or the next day. And he drives me home or walks me to the station promising that I'll change my mind soon. I don't. I have slumber parties with men rofl. Sexless slumber parties. I don't know how common this is.

    You know what it probably is? It's probably some kind of game I play. Like I wonder how long this happy sleepover will last before he reaches over and tries to make me, giving me the reason to deck him. And feeling triumphant when I survived to tell the tale. That's how my first time went. It's like I replay it out in real life. Like I'm doing it over and over but it ends how I want it to end, not the man this time. Oh my God that sounds so ****ed up now that I type it out. But I just want to be respected. I don't think I'll ever have sex again or find love because I always worry the guy isn't in it to respect me, he just wants sex. I can't take the risk.

    (Original post by Mick.w)
    I guess. I want to start my own legacy. using my surname as a brand of reputation and status.
    so for this i want a very social and politically savvy but also noble women to have kids with.
    who won't embarrass the family or let us down by doing something stupid like cheating or flirting or just making the family unit look weak in general. I want to do better than my parents and my kids to do better than me.
    I want a large amount of kids (for a westerner).
    around 8ish. enough for them to be a collective cabinet of the family name and business.
    and when i say cabinet i mean like a political cabinet with ministers responsible for different things.
    then with each kid having a set duty for the family that is also related to their career, it would provide much more opportunities for the grand kids. because if there's one thing i've learned in life its not what you know it's who you know rings very true. and the more people you know and the stronger your family is the better your chances are.
    That's interesting. I always thought of families as simply what happens when you have sex and make babies and don't leave them to die somewhere, and then you wake up one day and they're big as hell laying around waiting for the next move to be made. I never thought it was like a mini army to march through life. But when each person thinks this way, then more families might end up this way, and then as a people they would be better, and then society would be better. However I don't really think about society lol And I don't see myself as another black person on a daily basis; only when it comes to politics. When it comes to personal choices I do my own thing thinking only of me lol Maybe I should stop I don't know.


    (Original post by Mick.w)
    ive noticed all the people who do the worst as a cultural group are people who have notoriously broken up families.whereas the people who do the best have very strong families.and yes i want them all to be attractive.
    Oh my gosh, that's such a good point. Like black people There's...less unity, in the home and community. And therefore in the progress as a people. But it's been handed down, the families ripped apart by tragedy. Like slavery. I guess black people many didn't repair from that. Is it an excuse? No. But it's a reason.
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    (Original post by Cherie Amour)
    Oh you're from a single parent? I see. Aw you look after your mother, that's nice. As in financial support or emotional like protection? Or both? I kind of relate because I've kind of picked up the "son" role after my dad left. As far as protection goes; when my mum has to fight verbally or physically with someone she calls me, or when she needs anything like someone to look after the house or last minute backup money or someone to carry heavy stuff, climb a ladder or to open new bottles of ketchup or something, she calls me. However when she has men around she doesn't want me around. Even though I'm sure she and I have different tastes.
    I am from a single parent lol. I kinda bang on about how its better to come from two parent house holds. and I do look for her in a lot of ways. man of the house type of thing. my mom has always really hated violence but sadly its always been buzzing around me and my family. I guess we're very proud men. and often hold our ground even when the odds are against us. which has sadly ended with more sad stories than heroic david>goliath moments. but i won't go too much into that lol.

    thats funny that she picked you to be the boy. do you have other sisters? are you the oldest youngest or middle?

    (Original post by Cherie Amour)
    Oh I get it now. I thought you meant competing with my lover, because I know people do that. Whether it's with wits or pay.
    ah no no. although that is true and i've seen that. especially cause im seeing girls out earning their boyfriends. part of why i think a lot of relationships fall apart.

    I know its a bit of a tangent but i was reading up about these type of monkeys which scientists have proved are 100% loyal to their partners. and that its because they never leave each other alone. they do everything together. whereas even animals that we are told mate for life have 1% or more chance of cheating.

    but apparently they checked the monkeys dna n found unbroken lines or descent or what ever.

    but it made me realise that one of the main reasons people cheat is because they are away from each other. and thats probably why so many cultures require that when a women is married she stays at home.

    because most girls cheat on their boyfriends or husbands with a guy at work.
    its depressingly consistent.

    (Original post by Cherie Amour)
    I don't really make friends with people the way I used to. It used to be I'd socialise with baggamans but have a private trio I rolled with. It always worked like that with all the places I had to move to and new schools. I got everyone to know me and like me but drew the line still with my actual friends. When I needed clothes, devices or shelter or food even I had them. I was younger and had time for that. But now in Uni I haven't got to that point. I trust no one. Is that horrible?
    na. it makes sense. i do the same thing. i have a general layer system with friends too. large scattering of general acquaintances then an elite chosen few. then a smaller council type affair. n then thats it. n I have friends scattered out cause i've moved around a lot so i usually always have an emergency place to go to in most cities. which is cool. n I'm a big believer in its not what you know its who you know.
    successful people have these parties where people stand around drinking wine making links and networks with people where amazing opportunities are dropped at the feet of these privileged *******s that us mere mortals could only dream of.

    but i don't trust anyone at uni. your right not to either. they're kids mostly. n they thrive off of the *****y dinner hall type of environment at school.

    (Original post by Cherie Amour)
    I do agree like getting stabbed in the face by a friend is different than a lover. I really don't know why I guess the emotional investment but I get devastated when anyone ****s me over. So I keep away from everything now. I chat to people but that's it. People invite me out, I make up a lie. Or ignore them. It's safe and I'm not unfulfilled I just know there's gonna come a point where I need to give a ****. I guess.
    yea going out gets real old. its all based around spending money in the hope of having sex. i much rather bars with live music quiet enough to speak to someone over.

    (Original post by Cherie Amour)
    My ex who's like twice my age told me I need to fix how I talk to people lol he said I can't talk to people so rudely and aggressively anymore. I looked him dead in his eyes and said I don't give a **** and he just looked completely startled. I mean why do I need friends? How are they useful? How are your friends personally useful to you? They've always been a headache for me. I mean I guess for a good laugh. But I make myself laugh.
    ah friends are useful as i kinda said earlier. but then again i kinda think along a Machiavellian style. like some medieval feudal lord lol. so i tend to treat friends as political allies and ancillaries.
    my friends give me a sort of mobilising ability. its pretty incredible. also job opportunities. the ability to just kinda impress people with how many people you know n it makes you look a bit like a successful figure even if your not.
    i guess i've become very good at using other peoples ambition even if its an ambition that aims at screwing me over to my own advantage. and they can be fun. but i guess i see friendship as a "courtly" duty. like when i meet for drinks i literally think im holding court.

    (Original post by Cherie Amour)
    I grew up with my dad but my mother made him leave when I was 7 and they reunited out of nowhere when I was 10. And we left when I was 12. I haven't seen him since but he knows where we live and stuff but even when we lived together he forgot my birthday and cheated and stuff. I just numbed myself and I hate "numb" it sounds so ****ing emo, so like desensitised. I think that's a better word lol

    And no I don't desire love AT ALL. I am completely like...whatever. I want sex from a man. If that. I mean the only reason I value a man is for his penis and I've managed to stay away from that as well.
    maybe your fathers absence has contributed to your interest in emotionally absent men?

    I've noticed girls have a much harder time having a family without a father in their life. more so than guys.

    (Original post by Cherie Amour)
    I don't sit around like envisioning myself moping around in life and some guy comes to pick me up and put me together. Only when I'm really sad and need tear jerking. Which is rare.

    I don't look around at other couples like "that's so sweet. *hearts for eyes*."

    I don't stare out my window wondering when my knight in shining armour is going to come and swing me on the back of his motorbike. I look out my window wondering when the delivery man is coming. That's about it.

    I don't put on perfume so a guy I anticipate seeing will think, "damn she smells good." I put it on so I don't offend people on the tubes.

    I don't do my hair so guys can say, "wow you look nice." I do my hair so I don't look mental.

    I don't go shopping so guys can say, "Hey. Cool shoes." I go shopping so I can embody my fashion icons. Not to say I don't put in effort, I can't help being naturally good looking but I don't have care for others. I mean I wear long sleeves and work boots in 70-80 degree weather And I feel bad for girls showing everything. Because it's like I've never left the house showing my legs since wearing my uniform skirt. Yet I haven't struggled to get a man's attention.
    motorbikes are cool. speaking of cool i really hope a guy has said cool shoes to you in real life.

    hmmm interesting though I am curious why you have your avatar as an attractive girl. im sure you know that will receive more attention from guys wanting to chirps you in pm than a pic with like a design or landscape photo would?
    like im not being judgemental just trying to understand if i've got the right end of the stick so to speak.



    (Original post by Cherie Amour)
    I must be crazy because as time goes by, I get sad. I get sad that because I'm a woman I am looked at as fodder for some man I'm not even paying attention to. I have had a philosophy in life that says "I want respect, not to be liked." You can dislike me. Just don't disrespect me. You can talk about me. Just don't touch me. So how I interact with other people and how I dress and me pushing people away, it's kind of my display of my mind. How I got to this point, no clue.
    ah yes as Machiavelli said. it is safer to be feared than loved.

    its clearly a big emotional defence though. i know i do it to. n i myself am not sure where i've developed it from.

    and tbh if i was a girl who knows i may be worse. i mean the guys i meet nowadays... jesus... its slim pickings.

    (Original post by Cherie Amour)
    Condoms were invented and crime went down? I looked up when condoms were invented lol and it was like the 19th century, maybe before. I didn't know condoms had a correlation to crime, that's interesting. Tell me more? I would think that crime would go up since people felt they could do whatever they wanted now that there's a rubber bag on them. How does that feel? Condoms?
    ah no i mean the pill which was kinda made commercially available int he 60s and then the 80s was the last decade before crime went majorly down in the early 90s.

    however apparently its on the rise again. slowly.

    but it was basically a load of poor women that would of had a whole load of unwanted ******* poor children in the late 80s didn't.

    but i agree with you that contraception has created waaay more infidelity and lack of respect for peoples relationships and the family unit. sex is a toy now.

    but i guess men learn quickly that if you get put in prison for something because a girl has done something with another guy it ruins your life not hers. n the best most sensible way is rather to just not care for women at all.

    but on the condom front i do sometimes think that condoms and contraception might
    also be behind relationships collapsing.

    that maybe our primal brains think we are banging someone who can't get pregnant or can't make us pregnant and that we need to try elsewhere. who knows whats going on in a primeval mind.

    (Original post by Cherie Amour)
    Yes, the generation before us, the 60s babies, 70s teens. The stupid dopes were mad at how they were beaten before; now it is illegal. Or women were finally able to work and did as they pleased in relationships, or introduction to crack and the hippie movement, and the baby boomers which I believe is when people realised they could now have all these kids and get aid for it finally and still be able to work. The dawn of excessive consumerism and suburbia as what I think is part of a comeback from the WWII and the Great Depression and ...stuff. So (early 90s, late 80s born kids) our parents basically lost their ****ing minds because their parents did. Our grandparents either did well and bounced back from the war, or were left to struggle in council housing and **** neighbourhoods that seemed to have missed the memo that the war is over. And then raised our parents in an age where women were beginning to do for themselves, whether by circumstance or stupid choice. That's what happened in my family, especially on my mother's side. They're crazy. And so my mom is crazy. And I refuse to go crazy even if everyone else is already heading there by default. Which, granted, might make me seem crazy to others. But I've simply turned the default switch off. Which can be good. Whether I'm going in the right direction or not, eh.
    i dunno poor people tend to have loads of kids no matter what lol. sad but true. i mean even in poor parts of the world they are like "no no no... we MUST HAVE 8 KIDS" but yea our parents and grand parents generation has just ****ed any structure of culture and stuff out the window. and offered little to zero direction other than. "believe in your self" or what ever disney **** they believe in.

    (Original post by Cherie Amour)
    Oh my god, that is so romantic lol Oh. You made the move. Well, I can't say how I would've reacted. But I don't think it would've lead to a relationship. I probably would've run away screaming. I've been very close to having sex in these years but each time it involves me being there passed the sun setting with him still trying to convince me to give it up. And next thing I know we're eating and watching films and it's nighttime, or the next day. And he drives me home or walks me to the station promising that I'll change my mind soon. I don't. I have slumber parties with men rofl. Sexless slumber parties. I don't know how common this is.
    ah i've experienced it once before with a girl who was a virgin.

    (Original post by Cherie Amour)
    You know what it probably is? It's probably some kind of game I play. Like I wonder how long this happy sleepover will last before he reaches over and tries to make me, giving me the reason to deck him. And feeling triumphant when I survived to tell the tale. That's how my first time went. It's like I replay it out in real life. Like I'm doing it over and over but it ends how I want it to end, not the man this time. Oh my God that sounds so ****ed up now that I type it out. But I just want to be respected. I don't think I'll ever have sex again or find love because I always worry the guy isn't in it to respect me, he just wants sex. I can't take the risk.
    hmm yea i did think it was a way of somehow trying to rewrite history.
    i don't blame you though pretty much most guys do just want sex.
    but yea i'm the same way. i just don't trust anyone's commitment or loyalty or even respect. i'd like to have something positive to say about it but like nah u just can't trust nun of these peoples.


    (Original post by Cherie Amour)
    That's interesting. I always thought of families as simply what happens when you have sex and make babies and don't leave them to die somewhere, and then you wake up one day and they're big as hell laying around waiting for the next move to be made. I never thought it was like a mini army to march through life. But when each person thinks this way, then more families might end up this way, and then as a people they would be better, and then society would be better. However I don't really think about society lol And I don't see myself as another black person on a daily basis; only when it comes to politics. When it comes to personal choices I do my own thing thinking only of me lol Maybe I should stop I don't know.
    as i said... feudal lord mentality lol. like i literally make my kids chairmen of my family enterprise.

    and yea thats probably a good thing. i notice things like ethnicity. they often get used to exploit people all the time. like "oh if your down for people you should do this." it reminds me of the church... n not in a good way.

    (Original post by Cherie Amour)
    Oh my gosh, that's such a good point. Like black people There's...less unity, in the home and community. And therefore in the progress as a people. But it's been handed down, the families ripped apart by tragedy. Like slavery. I guess black people many didn't repair from that. Is it an excuse? No. But it's a reason.
    a lot irish n jamaicans came in to rebuild the uk. most of them single. and most never did well because they were sending money back home. whereas indians moved entire familys over n already had enough money and a good enough education to set up shops. whereas the irish n jamaicans moved over as a working class group of labourers. thats why it said no blacks no dogs no irish. not no blacks no indians no irish no dogs.

    indians had their own houses they didn't have to get a room in boarding houses.

    but yea irish n jamaicans have the worst mental health of any minorities in the uk. mainly schizophrenia. which apparently they say is caused often by trauma. so due to everything they had to go through back then... its not surprising our people are so crazy.

    n irish n jamaicans live in the poorest housing in the uk too.

    but i guess thats why i like to look at stuff like zen buddhism n confucism.

    which i originally thought was hippie crap. n most of the people that like it are up their own arse. but what got me into them was where they kinda flourished.

    confucism flourished when china was totally screwed and in bits. and it was a way of trying to repair a broken society. so i guess as i seem myself from a broken community and that this belief helped a broken community in the past i kinda look to it for advice. but its not religious i take it or leave it as i like.

    same with zen buddhism but not so much. but theres a lot about healing and trying to "de-crazy" in zen buddhism which i like. there's a great book called "the book of tea" which really kinda shows how the japanese focus on things and how to repair them. cuz japan was totally screwed on loads of occasions.

    but yea its all got a bit tangenty there. but BAH! oh well. it was much better written the first time i wrote it but tsr screwed me with session time out.
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    Men just don't want to be screwed over, hence we try and find that "one". When you get to your mid-20s girls want marriage - guys don't necessarily want that at that age.


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    just read the first posts and would like to point out that most people have little understanding of who gets screwed over when a relationship breaks up. The woman make get some of the man's assets - becase she is usually left with any children. The assets are to provide a stable home for the children, whos interests are always the main consideration in any settlement.

    For every man who loses the marital home there are 2 or 3 women having the sole financial responsibility for the children while the man either pays nothing or a pittance. Her career is badly affected, he can carry on as before. Some men are too immature to form a relationship with anyone but themselves.
 
 
 
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