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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    I'm not going to discuss the first three issues further- we've discussed them in detail and I disagree with you. So enough about them.

    Comparing now to the 1980s is lazy and it is not the same. Stop being so arrogant.
    We haven't discussed them in detail. You've said how you 'feel' about these three issues, and I've told you the facts. Particularly with the last two, it's utterly incredible that you still don't concede defeat.

    Has the electorate changed wildly since the 1980's then? Do you think they will, having just elected a Conservative government, warm to a party who in their minds caused the recession, who want to impose a maximum wage, who want to scrap Trident, and who want to renationalise just about everything under the sun? There's a certain 37-page document that shares many views with Corbyn and his Shadow Chancellor, and I don't think it's electoral credit gives it much credit.
    That's not even considering the fact that Thatcher didn't have wildly favourable economic record up to that point, either. This government will be able to parade its eight years of prudent austerity followed by its plan for moderate spending increases, while Corbyn will have the dubious fortune of a record as a politicians wherein he argued that Thatcher didn't spend enough, Major didn't spend enough, Tony Blair didn't spend enough, Brown didn't spend enough, and Cameron (even post-austerity) isn't spending enough. How do you think this will realistically play with the electorate?
    We've also forgotten to consider the asset that is his Chancellor, a man who wants to give honours to IRA members and said he would like to have assassinated a sitting Prime Minister.
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    (Original post by ibzombie96)
    We haven't discussed them in detail. You've said how you 'feel' about these three issues, and I've told you the facts. Particularly with the last two, it's utterly incredible that you still don't concede defeat.
    No. I'm not 'conceding defeat' nor am I discussing them further, that's the last i'll say on the matter. Stop being an egotistical toss pot.

    Has the electorate changed wildly since the 1980's then? Do you think they will, having just elected a Conservative government, warm to a party who in their minds caused the recession, who want to impose a maximum wage, who want to scrap Trident, and who want to renationalise just about everything under the sun? There's a certain 37-page document that shares many views with Corbyn and his Shadow Chancellor, and I don't think it's electoral credit gives it much credit.
    That's not even considering the fact that Thatcher didn't have wildly favourable economic record up to that point, either. This government will be able to parade its eight years of prudent austerity followed by its plan for moderate spending increases, while Corbyn will have the dubious fortune of a record as a politicians wherein he argued that Thatcher didn't spend enough, Major didn't spend enough, Tony Blair didn't spend enough, Brown didn't spend enough, and Cameron (even post-austerity) isn't spending enough. How do you think this will realistically play with the electorate?
    We've also forgotten to consider the asset that is his Chancellor, a man who wants to give honours to IRA members and said he would like to have assassinated a sitting Prime Minister.
    Deary me. You always think you're right on everything and that your opinions are unchallengeable.

    Politics in the 1980s was a two party system - it certainly isn't that anymore. Saying Corbyn will be exactly the same as Micahel Foot is baseless and lazy.

    I'm glad you can see into the future so clearly, want to tell me next weeks lottery numbers while you're at it?

    You can say and think what you want, underestimate Corbyn, write him off, laugh until you're content. But something very real and very new is happening accross the world.
    Maybe you'll be right - maybe he will flop and ruin the Labour party - but maybe, just maybe you could be wrong, (not that you'll ever admit such is a possibility).

    Now ffs give him ten minutes in the job before you start making all sorts of bold assertions and definite predictions.
    In 8 months if Labour is destroyed in the various elections then by all means come on here and brag and rub my nose in it. But until then, give him a f****** chance.

    Cheers.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    No. I'm not 'conceding defeat' nor am I discussing them further, that's the last i'll say on the matter. Stop being an egotistical toss pot.



    Deary me you're up your own arse. You always think you're right on everything and that your opinions are unchallengeable.

    Politics in the 1980s was a two party system - it certainly isn't that anymore. Saying Corbyn will be exactly the same as Micahel Foot is baseless and lazy.

    I'm glad you can see into the future so clearly, want to tell me next weeks lottery numbers while you're at it?

    You can say and think what you want, underestimate Corbyn, write him off, laugh until you're content. But something very real and very new is happening accross the world.
    Maybe you'll be right - maybe he will flop and ruin the Labour party - but maybe, just maybe you could be wrong, (not that you'll ever admit such is a possibility).

    Now ffs give him ten minutes in the job before you start making all sorts of bold assertions and definite predictions.You're like an insecure girlfriend.
    In 8 months if Labour is destroyed in the various elections then by all means come on here and brag and rub my nose in it. But until then, give him a f****** chance.

    Cheers.
    Hahaha I love the lottery comment - anyone who says Corbyn won't win an election inevitably gets that response. The argument is this: Corbyn is very unlikely to win an election - if the price to pay for not winning is another Tory government, why should he be leader? Doesn't matter now. He's been elected. I await 2020 with anticipation. You even say he could flop and ruin the Labour Party; are you genuinely OK with this? The country will become a one-party state, where only one party has the realistic chance of being in government. Do you really think this is acceptable as long as a socialist is made leader?

    Comparing Corbyn with Foot is not lazy at all. I've provided reasoning for this comparison yet you've nicely glossed over this like you usually do. Repeating your argument does not win a debate - you've got to make counter-arguments.
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    (Original post by ibzombie96)
    Hahaha I love the lottery comment - anyone who says Corbyn won't win an election inevitably gets that response. The argument is this: Corbyn is very unlikely to win an election - if the price to pay for not winning is another Tory government, why should he be leader? Doesn't matter now. He's been elected. I await 2020 with anticipation. You even say he could flop and ruin the Labour Party; are you genuinely OK with this? The country will become a one-party state, where only one party has the realistic chance of being in government. Do you really think this is acceptable as long as a socialist is made leader?

    Comparing Corbyn with Foot is not lazy at all. I've provided reasoning for this comparison yet you've nicely glossed over this like you usually do. Repeating your argument does not win a debate - you've got to make counter-arguments.
    The other three would likely have slumped to uninspiring defeats.
    Yes I acknowledge he could lose, you seem to fail to acknowledge he could win. I believe he can win.


    And why bother making counter arguments when you instantly reject any other opinion then your own? You really are arrogant, seem to think you know it all and that your opinions carry more weight then others. I have reasons why it's different to foot yet you of course glossed over them

    The past does not always repeat- ids did not replicate thatchers success just because he pulled to the right did he?
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    (Original post by Drunken Bard)
    Typical leftist who assumes anyone with money was handed it rather than earned it.
    the chance the 15 year old is some big shot enter-pruner isn't likely.
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    the chance the 15 year old is some big shot enter-pruner isn't likely.
    No, but perhaps his parents put in some hard graft to earn their keep?

    Or is there something wrong with trying to do well by your family?
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    the chance the 15 year old is some big shot enter-pruner isn't likely.
    (Original post by Drunken Bard)
    No, but perhaps his parents put in some hard graft to earn their keep?

    Or is there something wrong with trying to do well by your family?
    what drunken bard said
    I support my family's right to keep what they earned - they give plenty to the state already, supporting those less fortunate. What gives you the right to take more?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    The other three would likely have slumped to uninspiring defeats.
    Yes I acknowledge he could lose, you seem to fail to acknowledge he could win. I believe he can win.


    And why bother making counter arguments when you instantly reject any other opinion then your own? You really are arrogant, seem to think you know it all and that your opinions carry more weight then others. I have reasons why it's different to foot yet you of course glossed over them

    The past does not always repeat- ids did not replicate thatchers success just because he pulled to the right did he?
    You believe he can win despite the YouGov poll out today? In what should be his honeymoon period?

    By the way, IDS wasn't a success because he wasn't seen as PM material and his party didn't back him. Any similarities with today's situation?
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    Today we liberated the party which was held hostage by the New Labour dinosaurs. The people whom would abandon not just our values but our family members who may have need of vital state services and welfare which our fore-fathers and fore-mothers created for us.

    Labour was not created by the class of privilege it was created by you, me, mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, aunties, uncles, grandpa's and grand mother's.
    It was a product of collective collaboration of the workers for the workers.

    The rich do not make the wealth in this country! We make it but the rich steal the ability to say they create everything good and prosperous!

    How do people like you create wealth? As far as I know you don't create any wealth whatsoever.

    If not for educated and skilled labor nothing of value can be created! Without us their no value in this nation.

    We have a unique opportunity waiting for us.The day can come again when no person is judged like a piece of meat but as a person who has real human needs and aspirations.

    What am I talking about?

    I'm talking about us and our families! I'm talking about the working class. Our time is now! Are we going to sit around and let Rupert Murdoch and his lackeys smear us while we languish divided across the country?

    Yeah, Murdoch is the reason why people don't vote Labour.

    We can't do the same as in 2010 to 2015. We need to be active.
    I am puzzled. You say that you lot are the true creators, that the rich are leeching off you...
    What is your skill? What wealth are you creating at the moment? I am willing to bet you get more money from the rich than you create for them.

    If you are the true wealth creators, why not start your own businesses and then you will not have some mysterious rich person robbing you.

    I say mysterious because this person who is supposedly keeping you down doesn't exist. The reality is that a rich person is actually providing for you and your benefits rather than robbing you of the wealth you have created (that in reality you haven't).

    I am all for a compassionate society but that doesn't mean kidding yourself that you are some wealth creator when you aren't. In reality you just want even more of other peoples' money that they have earned. Typical of you on here.

    I have no problem with a welfare state; I have a problem with people who wish to bite the hand that feeds them. Hammer the rich all you like-see how well it has worked for France.
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    (Original post by phoenixsilver)
    what drunken bard said
    I support my family's right to keep what they earned - they give plenty to the state already, supporting those less fortunate. What gives you the right to take more?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    This is my view. People earn money-it isn't all got through some evil, shady method but by getting an education and hard work.

    I am all for supporting people in an NHS for example. Or expensive education or care for those with special needs. That is being humane. I am not for a benefits system that sees people get a flat and child allowance given to them, and they receive them unconditionally. Working people struggle to get a flat while working ffs.

    Honestly, the UK has some of the wealthiest "poor" on the planet. When people talk about wealth inequality they should talk about the difference between those who are working. How people can complain about state welfare when the benefits cap is up to £23,000 after tax income is beyond me. There are plenty of provisions for benefits for the able bodied already really.
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    (Original post by ibzombie96)
    You believe he can win despite the YouGov poll out today? In what should be his honeymoon period?

    By the way, IDS wasn't a success because he wasn't seen as PM material and his party didn't back him. Any similarities with today's situation?
    Polls one day before the general election got the result horribly wrong so excuse me if I don't put too much faith or stock in a single poll nearly 5 years before the next election. Polls Initially said he wouldn't win the leadership - he proved th wrong didn't he?

    Just stop making cast iron predictions and wait and see.
    In 8 months time after the first batch of elections- if you're right by all means make a song and dance about it but until then give him a bloody chance - he's been in the job less then a week.

    And you do realise 'the party ' is far more hen just MPs - the party overwhelmingly backed Corbyn.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Polls one day before the general election got the result horribly wrong so excuse me if I don't put too much faith or stock in a single poll nearly 5 years before the next election. Polls Initially said he wouldn't win the leadership - he proved th wrong didn't he?

    Just stop making cast iron predictions and wait and see.
    In 8 months time after the first batch of elections- if you're right by all means make a song and dance about it but until then give him a bloody chance - he's been in the job less then a week.

    And you do realise 'the party ' is far more hen just MPs - the party overwhelmingly backed Corbyn.
    I just don't see how you think he can win. Historical evidence suggests it, current evidence suggests it.

    But fine, leave it as long as you like. Perhaps on 8th May 2020 you might admit he probably can't win it.
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    (Original post by ibzombie96)
    I just don't see how you think he can win. Historical evidence suggests it, current evidence suggests it.

    But fine, leave it as long as you like. Perhaps on 8th May 2020 you might admit he probably can't win it.
    Because I truly believe we're going through a period of political change, not just here but accross the world with more and more people fed up of establishment politics. Fed up with the 'centre ground ' bs and fed up with soundbite politics and feeling ignored.

    He'll also do well to take the pettiness and personal attacks out of politics which research has shown turns young people away from politics.
    That's not to say Corbyn will win, nor even that he probably will but rather that he can.

    Labour had been in a slump for over ten years -the enthusiasm faded and they didn't really know what they stood for.

    Now they have a clear direction and once again the party is energised and alive.
    Labour needed a rocket and they got one.
    The other three candidates would have just been milliband again- they would have led the party to a predictable uninspiring defeat- why would Scotland, ukippers, green voters and the disenfranchised vote for any further the other three? Heck only Kendall might have taken Tory votes but would have probably lost more out the other side.

    All I'm saying is give it just a little bit of time before you start making cast iron predictions.
    You may be right of course but for the 1000th time it's way too early to tell.

    I think he can win and I'm willing to give him at least a year before I write him off.
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    (Original post by phoenixsilver)
    So... Take from the rich who've earned their money? Good luck with that.

    Corbyn gets elected and I'm on the first plane out of the UK.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    To a lovely capitalist utopia which is prejudiced against immigrant, adverse to employing one and has an unsupportive welfare state? Good luck settling in.
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    :bl: Corbyn gets elected and cya uk I prefer proper capitalism not hard-left politics.
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    (Original post by i<3milkshake)
    I am puzzled. You say that you lot are the true creators, that the rich are leeching off you...
    What is your skill? What wealth are you creating at the moment? I am willing to bet you get more money from the rich than you create for them.

    If you are the true wealth creators, why not start your own businesses and then you will not have some mysterious rich person robbing you.

    I say mysterious because this person who is supposedly keeping you down doesn't exist. The reality is that a rich person is actually providing for you and your benefits rather than robbing you of the wealth you have created (that in reality you haven't).

    I am all for a compassionate society but that doesn't mean kidding yourself that you are some wealth creator when you aren't. In reality you just want even more of other peoples' money that they have earned. Typical of you on here.

    I have no problem with a welfare state; I have a problem with people who wish to bite the hand that feeds them. Hammer the rich all you like-see how well it has worked for France.
    Mr Milkshake,

    The rich don't provide for me. The people who provide for me are the middle class and working class.

    You are under the illusion that the 1% actually create wealth. You are wrong. The people who create wealth are the middle class who create businesses and the working class who provide the Labour for those new businesses.

    As for the rich they simply funnel their wealth into funds which are used for market speculation. As for their spending they buy the same sort of things as the middle class in quantity. The difference is they buy higher quality.

    The difference between you and me is I understand the free market and you are just some sponge absorbing all the rubbish which your peers tell you.

    Your right about 1 thing Milkshake.

    I some kind of a looser who relies on others to create wealth for me. I'm the kind of person who has no conscious when it comes to making money. If I can I will short sell a stock while simultaneously pumping & dumping a Corporation to the ground I'll do it. I'll then go and blow a few thousands on a night out and brag about how many people I made unemployed.

    It is a dog eat dog world.

    I create nothing but I gain everything from manipulating others.

    And how do I know how the rich behave? Be a clever lad and guess.

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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    Mr Milkshake,

    The rich don't provide for me. The people who provide for me are the middle class and working class.

    You are under the illusion that the 1% actually create wealth. You are wrong. The people who create wealth are the middle class who create businesses and the working class who provide the Labour for those new businesses.
    The top 1% still pay 30% of tax. You are under the illusion that I can't see through your blatant jealousy. And again, don't avoid the question; what wealth have you created?

    As for the rich they simply funnel their wealth into funds which are used for market speculation. As for their spending they buy the same sort of things as the middle class in quantity. The difference is they buy higher quality.
    Again, nice speech. Why don't you start your own business or create some wealth? Oh I forgot, you are just jealous, nothing more.

    The difference between you and me is I understand the free market and you are just some sponge absorbing all the rubbish which your peers tell you.
    Oh, thank you for educating me. A person who sits at home all day is clearly such an intelligent, well educated and hard working person who I should listen to. (Not). "The difference between you and me is that I understand...". Oh please. Really. An accountant taking lessons from a sponger. Here is what I said about you on another thread-post 127;
    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...7#post59001387


    What I don't get about you, while I am talking about you, is that you are supposedly some big shot trader. However, rather than doing this and getting paid well you choose not to. I mean you are well enough to sit in front of a computer all day posting weird stuff on TSR so why can't you sit in front of a computer and get paid for it (e.g a job like you said you did)?
    Also, you say you are studying at the Open University. I assume you are doing it to help your job prospects. However, if you are already well qualified, educated and have experience in being a big baller shot caller trader WHY ON EARTH don't you go back to that? Why get an education for another job? It doesn't make sense. Well unless you are lying. THAT makes sense.



    Your right about 1 thing Milkshake.
    That you are absolutely full of rubbish? The above just shows how much of a joker you are. Claiming how you understand, and I don't...lol.
    I some kind of a looser who relies on others to create wealth for me. I'm the kind of person who has no conscious when it comes to making money. If I can I will short sell a stock while simultaneously pumping & dumping a Corporation to the ground I'll do it. I'll then go and blow a few thousands on a night out and brag about how many people I made unemployed.

    It is a dog eat dog world.

    I create nothing but I gain everything from manipulating others.

    And how do I know how the rich behave? Be a clever lad and guess.
    Why don't you be a clever lad and go to a council estate and see how most poor behave. Smoking (often weed which is illegal), drinking as soon as they wake up (and they wake up around noon which is ridiculous in itself), being anti-social chavs who steal and claim, generally being a drain on society.
    If the rich just left the UK it would not make life better for us. It would not make us richer. The only question is how much worse would it make our lives.
    Ask the same question about the above I have described and I bet the working people of this country would happilypay for their one way flight ticket.
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    (Original post by phoenixsilver)
    So... Take from the rich who've earned their money? Good luck with that.

    Corbyn gets elected and I'm on the first plane out of the UK.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Awww boo hoo. The rich should have to pay a chunk of their wage which is proportionate to the chunk lesser earners pay. It's called something... I think it starts with the letter "f"...
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    (Original post by i<3milkshake)
    Why don't you be a clever lad and go to a council estate and see how most poor behave. Smoking (often weed which is illegal), drinking as soon as they wake up (and they wake up around noon which is ridiculous in itself), being anti-social chavs who steal and claim, generally being a drain on society.
    If the rich just left the UK it would not make life better for us. It would not make us richer. The only question is how much worse would it make our lives.
    Ask the same question about the above I have described and I bet the working people of this country would happilypay for their one way flight ticket.
    The behavior of the anti-social youth does not justify that the rich produce the majority of wealth in society which is currently being transferred between all classes.

    Watch this vid which represents my view on the very richest.

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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    The behavior of the anti-social youth does not justify that the rich produce the majority of wealth in society which is currently being transferred between all classes.

    Watch this vid which represents my view on the very richest.
    The behaviour of the poor in council estates compared in comparison to the rich is perfectly relevant. It is about time you accepted that the welfare recipients are the drain on society rather than those who contribute via taxes.

    Also, your views on the rich are based on pure jealousy. So I don't care for how you are so jealous you spend your time sitting at home tying on a keyboard all day saying how much you hate them.

    Also, you act so high and mighty, like you are so well educated but even taking your statements as perfectly true it is still clear that you are a complete liar.

    In short, you are well enough to sit around hating the very people who pay so much for your benefit lifestyle choice. You are well enough to sit in front of a keyboard at home, you are well enough to do it at work surely?
    Like I explained above-the rich leaving would only make the country worse. How much worse is the debate. If claimants who are too lazy to work but hate those who pay for them left good riddance I say. No gratitude, no idea what a hypocrite you are calling others immoral parasites, no point doing anything other than laughing at your posts.
 
 
 
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